No more grenades???

[Rye Miles #13621]

http://tribunistdaily.com/index.php/2018/02/16/us-army-ditches-grenade-throwing-requirement-because-too-many-recruits-cant-throw-far-enough/

[Tennessee Trapper Tom]

That’s sad. Says a lot about our youths. Requirements for graduation have been on a decline for years.  We need more boy scouts 

[Pat Riot]

 

 

If you can’t throw a 1 pound object 75 feet you truly are a sad sack...

How in the hell can someone be in boot camp 10 weeks and not be able to throw a grenade at the end of it. What do they have these boots doing? Home-Ec.?

 

 

[G W Wade]

CAREFULL Pat  You might make a recruit cry       GW

[Dantankerous]

Heck, haven't the pre enlistment testing physical requirement's been lowered and lowered again?

 

 

[Randingo]

Hey, let's throw the first one for real in combat when were taking fire!!  Your adrenaline will be pumping so you should be able to throw further.   Don't let that snapping sound bother you, those are only bullets!!!!   

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

Maybe they should have to throw it BEFORE basic????????????????????????????????????????????/

Best

CR

 

[Trailrider #896]

Are the modern smooth-sided grenades as heavy as the old pineapples?  Maybe they should bring back the old German "potato mashers".   Maybe they would be easier to throw.  Or just give all infantry troops who can't qualify the grenade launchers!  Pretty sad...

[Smoken D]

I reported once before the sad state of our military training. Went to Ft. Leonard Wood around 2 years back and it was just shocking, just pathetic. Barracks were not cleaned and the D.I. could not force them to keep the place clean. It was drizzling while I was there and was told the recruits would not do the obstacle course because it was wet. I could go on, but you get the message. Oh yea, no more KP and professional cooks with servers take care of the food and cleaning up.

[Utah Bob #35998]

17 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Are the modern smooth-sided grenades as heavy as the old pineapples?  Maybe they should bring back the old German "potato mashers".   Maybe they would be easier to throw.  Or just give all infantry troops who can't qualify the grenade launchers!  Pretty sad...

They are lighter as the old M1s were cast iron.

First they stopped bayonet training and now this. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

Issue these:

[J.D. Daily]

My eldest grandson is in basic at Fort Benning. The misses & I received a letter from him yesterday.  He stated he looks forward throwing a grenade; so, his company they haven't dropped the grenade toss.  He is not impressed with his fellow trainees, physical & mental capabilities.  One was too stupid to know you don't stash Mary Jane in the barracks.

[Subdeacon Joe]

5 minutes ago, J.D. Daily said:

One was too stupid to know you don't stash Mary Jane in the barracks.

[Trailrider #896]

2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

They are lighter as the old M1s were cast iron.

First they stopped bayonet training and now this. 

With the length and possibly the strength of these "Marty Matell" carbines, I don't wonder about bayonet training.  Looks to me like a bayonet on the end of an M4 would allow the enemy to be too close...close enough to kick you in the spheroids before you could get the pigsticker into him!

[Utah Bob #35998]

3 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

With the length and possibly the strength of these "Marty Matell" carbines, I don't wonder about bayonet training.  Looks to me like a bayonet on the end of an M4 would allow the enemy to be too close...close enough to kick you in the spheroids before you could get the pigsticker into him!

The main benefit of bayonet training actually is the aggressive mindset it instills in recruits.

I can still hear the instructor screaming repeatedly, What is the spirit of the bayonet?”

And our response...”To Kill!”

Probably to politically incorrect for today. 

[Clay Mosby]

Heck, even back in 1970 when I went through Basic we had some wimps that could barely get the grenade over the protective wall. One recruit pulled the pin, screamed and dropped the grenade at his feet! DI calmly kicked it into the safety trench and proceeded to administer the most impressive ass chewing I have ever heard! 3 days later this same recruit ran a bayonet through his hand deliberately in an effort to get kicked out. It worked.

 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

10 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

The main benefit of bayonet training actually is the aggressive mindset it instills in recruits.

I can still hear the instructor screaming repeatedly, What is the spirit of the bayonet?”

And our response...”To Kill!”

Probably to politically incorrect for today. 

When I went through USMA Beast Barracks in 1983, we did bayonet training right on The Plain, screaming about blood and grass and the Spirit of the Bayonet, all the time with tourists mingling around.

 

Three years later as cadre, they moved bayonet training to an isolated athletic field.  Some of the tourists had complained. 

 

These days the bayonets are in museums. 

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

Civilians have no idea the actual mission of the military or how youth must be trained to accomplish same, yet they want more and more to have control over the training and the mission.

 I LIKED hand grenades

 

Imis

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

15 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

 

If you can’t throw a 1 pound object 75 feet you truly are a sad sack...

How in the hell can someone be in boot camp 10 weeks and not be able to throw a grenade at the end of it. What do they have these boots doing? Home-Ec.?

 

 

Boot Camp isn't like it was yesterdays either.  MT

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Makes me want to cry. 

[Smoken D]

A beat cop in the inner city will see more hand-to-hand combat in one weekend than a vast majority of military personnel in 20 years.

[Randingo]

2 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

 I LIKED hand grenades

 

Imis

Me to!!!!!!!!

[Joke 'um]

Even SASS recognizes there are differences between men and women.  We compete on the same course of fire, but not against each other.

 

The DOD runs their heads into this wall all the time.  Women can't run as fast or do as many pushups?  Make separate standards and voila, women are fully qualified.  Women crash too many F-14's?  Derate the F-14 to disallow the turns that make women pass out and voila, women are fully qualified.  Women can't throw hand grenades far enough to avoid killing themselves and fellow soldiers?  Eliminate the hand grenade requirement and voila, women are as qualified as their male counterparts. 

 

The disease of forcing a non-existent gender physical equality into the combat branches of the military is deadly wrong.  Should all Olympic athletes compete against each other regardless of gender?  Listen to the howls if you try that one.  Should SASS eliminate gender based categories?  Wouldn't think of it.  Still, for some silly reason, the PC set insist that something as deadly serious as national defense be conducted on a gender neutral basis.  

 

Outrageous!    (OK, you can ban me from the site now.)

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

The stupid is strong in this one.

[Grumpy Old Man]

I never could throw very good, but I had no problem throwing a grenade far enough. Basic, 1971, Ft. Campbell, KY.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Well, the grenade course is one place where you don't want to "THROW LIKE A GIRL",

unless you are a qualified softball pitcher. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

9 hours ago, Smoken D said:

A beat cop in the inner city will see more hand-to-hand combat in one weekend than a vast majority of military personnel in 20 years.

Apples and oranges time again.

[Smoken D]

23 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Apples and oranges time again.

 

When fighting for your life, where does it matter where you are? City street or a jungle don't matter to the one fighting for his life.

[Utah Bob #35998]

On 2/19/2018 at 8:00 AM, Smoken D said:

A beat cop in the inner city will see more hand-to-hand combat in one weekend than a vast majority of military personnel in 20 years.

As Forty Rod said, apples and oranges. Grenade distance ain’t hand to hand. Plenty of grunts have chunked a frag or two in combat.

And cop hand to hand is generally to subdue someone. I am aware of exceptions

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

On 2/18/2018 at 3:07 PM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

 

If you can’t throw a 1 pound object 75 feet you truly are a sad sack...

How in the hell can someone be in boot camp 10 weeks and not be able to throw a grenade at the end of it. What do they have these boots doing? Home-Ec.?

 

 

As much as I am against ditching the requirement, I think your memory is rather faded if you think a grenade weighs one pound.  It's 9 pounds -- nearly the same as a shotput -- and the requirement was 40 meters (i.e. 120 feet - ish) from standing, 30 meters from kneeling, and 20 meters from a prone position.  And we use the same grenade today as my father used in Vietnam; there is nothing high tech about a grenade, so there has been no need to "upgrade."  

 

That said, the Army has FINALLY recognized our young soliders are out of shape and ill disciplined coming out of basic training, so they have FINALLY decided to go back to the old school with basic training and bring drill sergeants back to AIT.  It's been nothing but a fun camping trip for over a decade now.

 

Someone said we need more Boy Scouts.  I wholeheartedly agree.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

On 2/18/2018 at 7:54 PM, Utah Bob #35998 said:

The main benefit of bayonet training actually is the aggressive mindset it instills in recruits.

I can still hear the instructor screaming repeatedly, What is the spirit of the bayonet?”

And our response...”To Kill!”

Probably to politically incorrect for today. 

"BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD, DRILL SERGEANT!!!"

 

"What makes the grass grow?"

"BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD, DRILL SERGEANT!!!"

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

On 2/19/2018 at 6:30 AM, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Civilians have no idea the actual mission of the military or how youth must be trained to accomplish same, yet they want more and more to have control over the training and the mission.

 I LIKED hand grenades

 

Imis

I was a platoon leader when we "liberated" Iraq in 2003.  I remember being in Kuwait doing RSOI (i.e. getting ready to go).  My platoon received two pallets full of ammo of all kinds, and the Platoon Sergeant and I started divying it up to the Squad Leaders.  I'll never forget the cold realization that overcame me when my eyes landed on two cases of live hand grenades.  

"Holy crap.  We have more than one idiot in this platoon," I said to myself.  Out loud, I looked at the Platoon Sergeant and said, "Sergeant Wells, not everyone is getting grenades.  I want a recommendation list from you."

He reached into his vest and handed me a piece of paper with a bunch of names on it, "Like this, sir?" 

I looked at the list, and at the top were my name and his.  Below us were all the smart, capable soldiers and NCOs that I would trust with a grenade.  All the duffuses were left off.

"Good list, Sergeant.  Make it so."

[Utah Bob #35998]

7 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

As much as I am against ditching the requirement, I think your memory is rather faded if you think a grenade weighs one pound.  It's 9 pounds -- nearly the same as a shotput -- and the requirement was 40 meters (i.e. 120 feet - ish) from standing, 30 meters from kneeling, and 20 meters from a prone position.  And we use the same grenade today as my father used in Vietnam; there is nothing high tech about a grenade, so there has been no need to "upgrade."  

 

That said, the Army has FINALLY recognized our young soliders are out of shape and ill disciplined coming out of basic training, so they have FINALLY decided to go back to the old school with basic training and bring drill sergeants back to AIT.  It's been nothing but a fun camping trip for over a decade now.

 

Someone said we need more Boy Scouts.  I wholeheartedly agree.

Reluctant as I am to disagree with a field grade officer, I must point out that the M67 fragmentation grenade we used in Vietnam weighs 14 oz. The M26 from my basic training days weighs 16 oz. If they were 9 lbs I would have been recycled through basic for years. 

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=36

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Just now, Utah Bob #35998 said:

Reluctant as I am to disagree with a field grade officer, I must point out that the M67 fragmentation grenade we used in Vietnam weighs 14 oz. The M26 from my basic training days weighs 16 oz. If they were 9 lbs I would have been recycled through basic for years. 

https://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=36

Well, the last time I actually threw a grenade I wasn't a field grade officer (it was actually in 2003 and I was in my 20s).  But I must disagree with the article you listed.  When you throw a grenade, it's HEAVY.  You cannot throw it like a baseball, even, or you'll injure your shoulder.  The technique they teach is rather similar to a shotput.

[Pat Riot]

10 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

As much as I am against ditching the requirement, I think your memory is rather faded if you think a grenade weighs one pound.  It's 9 pounds -- nearly the same as a shotput -- and the requirement was 40 meters (i.e. 120 feet - ish) from standing, 30 meters from kneeling, and 20 meters from a prone position.  And we use the same grenade today as my father used in Vietnam; there is nothing high tech about a grenade, so there has been no need to "upgrade."  

 

That said, the Army has FINALLY recognized our young soliders are out of shape and ill disciplined coming out of basic training, so they have FINALLY decided to go back to the old school with basic training and bring drill sergeants back to AIT.  It's been nothing but a fun camping trip for over a decade now.

 

Someone said we need more Boy Scouts.  I wholeheartedly agree.

Mk2 Grenade = 21oz - no longer used WW2 "pineapple"

M26 = 16oz

M67 Grenade = 14oz (current use frag)

M61 Grenade = 16oz

 

Was this the 9 pound grenade that you are referring too...