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Tumbling Brass vs Lead Levels


Cypress Sam, SASS #10915

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For many years I tumbled my brass with walnut shells and an occasional squirt of auto polish.  It worked great except for the dust.  A couple of years ago, I found out that my lead levels had risen to about 22.  My doctor (and posts on the Wire) said that lead levels over 10 were a concern.  

 

So Here is what I did to try to reduce my exposure.  I started wearing a filter mask when I loaded and emptied the tumbler because of the cloud of lead laden dust that rose up from the hand turned media separator.  And washed my hands after handling either clean or dirty brass.

 

Deciding that all that dust settling on everything in the garage, I started putting about two tablespoons of mineral spirits in the vibratory tumbler with the walnut media and polish.  Then I run the tumbler for 10 or 15 minutes until it is completely mixed, then put in the brass and run until it is clean.  I usually run it overnight, but that may be overkill.  

 

Now when I pour it into the separator, there is no dust.  At least none I can see.

 

Over the last two years my lead l gel has dropped from 22 to 9.  Hand washing and the mineral spirits in the tumbling media is all I did.  Worked for me!

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In combination with a capful of thinner in the media, I always use a used dryer sheet in the vibrator bowl, too.  Then throw the blackened, dirty sheet away when done with the cleaning cycle.   Keeps my media free of dust, and from the black color on it, probably free from lead compounds, too.

Good luck, GJ

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2 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

In combination with a capful of thinner in the media, I always use a used dryer sheet in the vibrator bowl, too.  Then throw the blacked, dirty sheet away when done with the cleaning cycle.   Keeps my media free of dust, and from the black color on it, probably free from lead compounds, too.

Good luck, GJ

 

  I don't use mineral spirits but I do cut up 3 used dryer sheets into quarters. Then I mix those in with corn cob media and then the brass. I've found it not only cuts down the dust but it also extends the life of the media.

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I do the dryer sheet option as well, but use a mask when I dump the media into the separator. My lead levels seem to be OK still.

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Mine tested at 22 also.Doc said they can not get insurance involved unless 45. I just started reloading therefore I am using wet tumbling and coated bullets. Have always washed at lunch and shower when I get home. Doc said he will quarterly test me now to see if Change.

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I’ve never tried dryer sheets but the mineral spirits completely eliminates all visible dust.  I wonder if you can use both to any advantage?

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1 hour ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

I’ve never tried dryer sheets but the mineral spirits completely eliminates all visible dust.  I wonder if you can use both to any advantage?

 

Hmmm, on a clear day you can have deja vue all the way to the mountains. :lol:

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If you are going to use paint thinner or similar flammable liquid, 

1) move the bowl outside when running, in case the motor sparks.

2) run the media until the liquid evaporates and dries out.    Damp liquid in the lizard litter makes it stick inside your cases!   Which means you might have media blocking the flash hole (squib), or reducing the case capacity and raising pressures (NOT a squib, but maybe worse).  Don't try to short cut a batch and start sifting while the walnut or corncobs are still damp and sticking in cases.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

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My lead levels have  been at 20 but through a combination of changing how I do things  it  has come down to 9 at my last test on Jan 31..I have tests every 3 months..I tumble with pearl barley which hasn't been a problem. I'm pretty sure my high levels came from melting reclaimed shot into ingots to put through my Magma caster. Purchased 5 ton  & melting is over a gas or timber flame so temperature is not controlled & hovering & working over the pot is not  good..since I stopped that, the levels have gradually gone down.I have always washed often  & wear appropriate protection but harder to do when the weather is hot For sure at least I won't have to buy shot for a loooooong time !......alas it does make good bullets.....

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Sam

 

I use the same routine with the exception of the mineral spirits.  My lead levels have dropped by almost the same numbers.  I’m going to have to to add the mineral spirits and maybe put in a dryer sheet.

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take this into consideration,,, firemen,,, old house burns,,,,,  all lead paint,,,  if you're near an old house fire, stay away from the smoke.

 

i once burned a bunch of wood from a porch that had several layers of lead paint,,  you would not believe how heavy the ashes were..  and yes I stayed out of the smoke,, you cud smell the lead...

 

My numbers were also at 22 once, but I was melting lead and not being careful at all, and was using a vibrator to clean brass and not being mindful there too,  started being careful with both and numbers came back down in a year..

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proper diet is also important, the biggest transmission of lead to children in old houses is lead dust from window sashes and the frames,,, and people not cleaning up the dust... kids get fingers in dust and then put fingers in mouth...

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I haven't used the mineral spirits or dryer sheets... but... what I had on hand, plain old white paper towels.  cut a sheet of paper towel into quarters and thru it in with my old media and tumbled.  I don't know my lead numbers, I'll have to get tested I guess... I've been reloading for 40+ years,   but just that single sheet of paper towel reduced the dust something fierce!  (Oh yeah, you NEED to change the paper towel with EVERY load you tumble).

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I retired my Lyman tumbler and bought a Hornady with a solid cover on it.

I use the dryer sheets and Nitrile gloves when working with brass and media.

I found with proper fitting Nitrile gloves, you can even load wearing them.

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In addition to testing you blood, you can test the areas around you that are impacted by your cleaning and lead handling. There are several lead test kits on the market available from Home Depot, Ace Hardware, and similar stores. I think the 3M one is the best, but they all work and indicate the presence of lead. Unfortunately, they really only report the presence of lead - not how much lead other than the relative difference between "pink" for a little and "red" for a lot. The lead test kits only come with a few strips and a package is around $10 according to where you shop - so it's not cheap if you are really curious about what's around you.

 

For those of you going for blood-lead-level (BLL) tests, don't be surprised if you get a letter from your State health department with suggestions of how to control BLL (some states, like California, require blood drawing facilities to report raised BLL - typically over 10mg/dl - so they can know of any unusual health issues). 

 

Raised levels appear to come primarily from inhalation (breathing in lead particulate) and ingestion (entry of lead particulate through the mouth - as when eating food that was touched by lead-ridden fingers, etc.,) than they do from absorption (just having the presence of lead on your fingers and hands). As to a breathing lead fumes such that comes from casting bullets, I've heard a lot of controversy there. I have a friend in the bullet business whose BLL is only 11 (six to seven months ago). He wears thin rubber gloves when handling ingots and bullets (at least he says he does), and he doesn't appear to have high BLL from casting vapors.

 

Really good to be on top of this - it is a pretty serious issue.

 

RR

 

lead test.jpg

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, I got my blood tested and I was surprised.

My lead level is <2ug/dl. Less than 2 is good. I figured it would be much higher.

 

I wash my hands a lot when handling brass and reloading.

I use nitrile gloves most of the time when tumbling. 

I always make sure I have air flow when I dump brass and media for sifting and I started using a dust mask for that.

 

Something I discovered at the indoor range I go to is these lead removing wipes. They are like handi-wipes for lead.

Here is a photo of the container. I use these every time I shoot there. I need some for home.

 

5aa866b496554_LeadWipes.thumb.jpg.341a64cf9f2bea56bdca4b7a2f9a046e.jpg

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The amount of lead in gas form (as a vapor)  is REALLY small over lead being melted at 700 to 900 F.   Lead won't boil until 3180 deg F!  Boiling means the vapor pressure of lead has gotten to one atmosphere pressure above the liquid lead..  At THAT temperature, you would have LOTS of lead coming off a pot.  But at 800 F?  Very little. 

 

The dusty dross on the lead surface, though, is small particulate lead oxide and other compounds.  You want to make sure you have good ventilation when you scoop off and toss that dross away!   Casting with ventilation, taking real care of how you handle the dross, and washing up your hands and face - there will be almost no uptake of lead.

 

Good luck, GJ

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For those of you interested in following the reports on blood-lead levels, a new study was reported in The Lancet Public Health in February, and it speaks of lower BLL than we've been discussing in these posts. These levels sound almost impossible to achieve for us shooters, but at least it's something to evaluate. You'll find it here: https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/12/health/lead-exposure-cardiovascular-disease-study/index.html

 

RR

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I always get curious when I read threads about tumbling and lead concern because one thing always seems to go unmentioned and that is lead exposure at the unloading tables!

 

The contaminated dirty brass you're concerned with when tumbling is the same brass you scoop up with your hands at the unloading table and toss in a container back at your cart then go on about your business until you repeat the procedure again for six stages.  All this time your hands are gradually getting more and more grimy with all the contaminates.

 

I'm guessing if one wiped one of those lead detecting wipes on the surface of the reloading tables you would be amazed at what it detects yet no one seems to be concerned but will wear dust masks and rubber gloves when reloading cleaned brass.

 

Just something to think about, we shooters are exposed to lead far more than we realize or want to realize.

 

 

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We do need to keep in mind the practical limits of what can be done to minimize risks without squashing the whole action shooting game!.  

 

Lots of shooter and reloaders for years have survived with good practices of hygiene and appropriate practical precautions.    Where you have concerns, figure out a way to practically control the problem.   

 

As for unloading table, if really concerned, perhaps carry a pack of hand wipes and a clean towel and scrub after unloading, back at your cart so you don't hold up the table operations.

 

Good luck, GJ

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On 2/14/2018 at 8:18 AM, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

For many years I tumbled my brass with walnut shells and an occasional squirt of auto polish.  It worked great except for the dust.  A couple of years ago, I found out that my lead levels had risen to about 22.  My doctor (and posts on the Wire) said that lead levels over 10 were a concern.  

 

So Here is what I did to try to reduce my exposure.  I started wearing a filter mask when I loaded and emptied the tumbler because of the cloud of lead laden dust that rose up from the hand turned media separator.  And washed my hands after handling either clean or dirty brass.

 

Deciding that all that dust settling on everything in the garage, I started putting about two tablespoons of mineral spirits in the vibratory tumbler with the walnut media and polish.  Then I run the tumbler for 10 or 15 minutes until it is completely mixed, then put in the brass and run until it is clean.  I usually run it overnight, but that may be overkill.  

 

Now when I pour it into the separator, there is no dust.  At least none I can see.

 

Over the last two years my lead l gel has dropped from 22 to 9.  Hand washing and the mineral spirits in the tumbling media is all I did.  Worked for me!

 

Mine are 6 and that came back as high.  I had to look it up and the CDC changed it to 5 and no safe level in children go figure.

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Hate to be the one to have to bring this up, but- do not get yourself into a false sense of safety because your blood lead level dropped. Mind you, low or none is better than questionable or high. Just be aware that a serum ( blood) level will not be a reflection of how much has already been deposited into other tissues, like your brain, for example. Only true way to check that would be, I suppose, a biopsy. I don't really feel the need to go that far for a definitive answer yet, considering that , well, there's the whole risk vs. benefit thing of having brain surgery.  Yes, I will sure start buying dryer sheets.

 Heck, when I was a kid, and fished in a pond within easy walking distance from our house, standard practice for applying a split-shot sinker to a fishing line was to crimp in on using your molars.

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