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Electronic Safe Lock - Trust one?


Warhorse

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OK, folks. I ask for some practical experience and wisdom with the currently available electronic locks on gun safes. For many years, I refused to even consider having an electronic lock on a gun safe simply because I do not trust them not to fail and deny access to the interior. [Of course, according to Murphy, they will fail at the least opportune time, too.]

 

I find more and more that electronic locks are the most prevalent kind found on available gun safes, as well as other types of safes. Does anyone have any long-term (several years) experience with electronic safe locks? What do you do if they do fail? Yeah, I know that some of them have key backup but doesn't that defeat the purpose of the electronic lock? Are the newer locks more reliable than past experience has shown? 

 

I would appreciate any input and, especially, experiences you may have with them, in particular any warnings about their use and anticipated problems.

 

Yeah, I am asking for education on the subject.

 

 

     Warhorse

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53 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

NO-I do not trust ele safe locks. Seen to many fail.

Ask a locksmith........

Much prefer a S&G commercial dial type.

OLG

I agree with lumpy, 100%

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My experience was with a large Winchester-branded safe at my gun-pusher's. Even though the door and windows had roll-down steel shutters and there was an alarm, he kept his NFA stuff in the safe.

 

One day the lock lost its little electronic brain. It wasn't that he couldn't unlock it. It wouldn't LOCK.

 

You could shut the door, you could turn the handle to shoot the bolts, but the lock stayed unlocked.

 

If it wouldn't unlock, at least my guns would be secured. This was like just putting them in the closet.

 

They only way I'd have a safe with an electronic lock was if I got it cheap enough (like free) that I could afford to have an S&G put on it.

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I have an S&G dial lock on my safe. The only safes that I have had with electronic locks have been 2 pistol safes. I gave one away to a lady that just wanted a place to store documents. The other is one that I bought before Christmas to legally transport a handgun in CA. Neither can be trusted regarding battery life. I always have the key handy when using the safe. But you asked about larger safes.

 

5 years ago I used to frequent a gun shop every couple of days. The man that owned it had 5 large safes. All of them had electronic locks. Many times in the 3 years that I went to that store he had safe lock issues. 3 of his safes were Liberty safes and the other 2 I do not recall the maker but they were made in CA. 2 of the Liberty safes had S&G electronic locks but I do not remember what the other one had. It may have been and S&G but it had a different look from the other 2. Just before I left California he had a locksmith in to change out the locks on all his safes but I don't recall what he had installed. I do recall his complaint was the power source. Since he was in and out of those safes every day many times a day he obviously was using up the battery power on his locks much more quickly than you or I might.

 

If you look at the S&G website some of their safe locks come with 2 batteries and they are military rated for EMP and low battery access. If I were going to get a safe with an electronic lock I would go that route.

 

Here is a link to the S&G Electronic Locks and their specs. http://ftp.sargentandgreenleaf.com/pdf/book_elec_locks.pdf

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I have four with dial locks and two with keypad locks - no problems with any of them, nor have I ever seen first hand a problem with an electronic lock. I've heard enough 2nd and 3rd hand accounts and Internet horror stories to make me think I should change them to dial locks though. Electronics fail, that's a fact. But mechanical stuff fails too, also a fact, but usually less often. :mellow:

 

"My neighbor's former roommate's cousin's adopted brother's biological father's boss knew someone at his former workplace who said his dad's stepbrother had a neighbor who had one fail."

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Here is what I have had on my safes for over 33+ yrs.

http://www.sargentandgreenleaf.com/products/mechanical-locks/6730-series/#features

 

The ele safe locks I have seen fail, were seen with my own eyes as I tried to help the safe owners trouble shoot the issue.

One was a Sheriffs dept safe that failed in the back of my SIL's patrol SUV.

OLG

 

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24 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Pat-That other Ca. safe maker I'll bet was Sportsman Safes out of Long Beach, Ca.

OLG

Not sure. I was in Elk Grove near Sacramento at the time.

 

This guy's issues were regarding the power source AND I did see that First Hand...My Glock 19 was in one of his safes and I had to wait an extra day on the 10 waiting period to get my Glock. The other issues he had I learned of by telepathy through his mother's sister's cousin's son twice removed. :P

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Only ever seen 2 brands of safe style locks in 35 years of working for and with the government. S&G mechanical and Kaba. Know of 2 safes that still use a S&G mechanical lock. Both are around 40 years old and still work. I have only ever seen two S&G mechanical locks pulled from service due to mechanical problems. Both were in daily use for about 60 years and were simply worn out.

 

All the new GSA safe locks I have seen are made by Kaba. They are sophisticated electromechanical dial locks and are actually easier to open than the S&G mechanical locks.  I have personally seen or heard of only 3 of these failing in 25 years. All were opened and closed at least once daily.

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25 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Mine has the secondary key-lock for the dial.

OLG

But that doesn't open the safe, it locks the dial, right...?

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Warhorse,

J Bar Binks and OLG's comments about the key dial lock reminded me. When, if, you buy a safe, before you have it transported home, open the box the safe comes in and make sure the safe has the correct lock.  When I bought my gun safe in 2005 from Bass Pro I bought a safe they had on sale at over half off. You had a choice between the electronic lock or the combination dial lock that had a key for the dial. I wanted the dial lock. They wheeled my safe out to my truck, all 425 pounds of her, still in the packing box and I drove her home. Long story short, with a fridge dolly, lots of cussing and some bumps and bruises I got the safe unloaded and placed in the farthest room in the house from the garage door into the house only to unpackage it and find out I got the safe with the S&G dial lock WITHOUT the dial locking key mechanism. I still have it. 

 

Anyway, make sure the safe you buy is what is in the box. They are too darn heavy to be fooling with them more than need be.

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I had a military file cabinet with a S&G lock on it for Top Secret material in my S-2 office in Germany.  I was required to change the combination every month.  I was in the process of changing the combination and had the back off of the lock to change the disc locations. I stepped away from the safe just as my CO stepped into the office. He saw the open safe and slammed it shut.  The easiest way to describe the problem is that every time you touched the dial you changed the combination.  I called my local spook support and he came over quickly. 

 

But, I could not see what he was doing to the safe(not enough clearance) and he could not see the contents of the safe(not enough clearance).

We sat down and had a cup of coffee and decide the only way to do it was for me to go cocked and locked with my 1911 with my back to the safe and he would cock his PPK while he unlocked the safe.  An impossible job that he finished in about 30 seconds with a tool of some sort.

 

Not one of my most comfortable days.

 

If I was wanting the best safe I would go with the S&G.

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4 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

NO-I do not trust ele safe locks. Seen to many fail.

Ask a locksmith........

Much prefer a S&G commercial dial type.

OLG

S&G was the lock type used on all the classified safes in the SCIF at my former job.  It they're good enough for TS/SCI info they're good enough for my guns.

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I have a StackOn Elite that uses a Electronic lock and it died. I couldn't find any replacements on line. I finally called the company and they had replacements for the current version. I replaced everything for a minimal price. It didn't quite match up with the old holes but with a drill and a rotary tool I got it to work. I would of preferred to upgrade locks, but all of the schematics for better locks looked like they would  require welding some tabs to tap new screw holes into.  For the convenience I would co electronic again even though they all seem to die.

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Change combos, yeah.  When I transferred out of the S-2, they changed the lock combos.  I had some documents to return.  I though for a minute, unlock the locks and put the docs on the MSGT's desk, only SRD, so that was ok. Later he asked me how I got in. told him I guessed.

 

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11 minutes ago, Shotgun Clay said:

S&G was the lock type used on all the classified safes in the SCIF at my former job.  It they're good enough for TS/SCI info they're good enough for my guns.

Maybe, they were the lowest bidder-:lol:

OLG

 

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Dang-Darn here we go again----Lumpy ya gonna get an ego problem if I keep on agreeing w/ ya-----I spent over 40 yrs. as an electronics tech.---all the way from days o vacume tubes to computerized chips------one thing I know for shure is if it's electronic & can fail sooner or later it's gonna fail-------THATS what made me a living all those years-------if it don't have a back-up way to make it function when electrical don't work ya in a mess!!   My safes are mechanical yes they can mess up also but not nearly as often!!!-----Dial-(tumbler locks ) can get messed up during transit by safe being laid on its back & door closed & locked----tumblers can fall outa position---if ya ever have to move one around it's something to remember & take precauction about!!

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2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I still remember the combination to the inner safe of the missile launcher on my ship that held the magic key. Weird...

I bet that combination will not work today...I seem to remember we changed many of our safe combination about once a month...That was NSA equipment...What ever message left the base went threw my equipment..In coming same thing...And we change that card every day....

 

TL

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8 minutes ago, Texas Lizard said:

I bet that combination will not work today...I seem to remember we changed many of our safe combination about once a month...That was NSA equipment...What ever message left the base went threw my equipment..In coming same thing...And we change that card every day....

 

TL

You’d be right. It got changed often but I remember the combo the day I had to open it for what turned out to be a drill. A bit of excitement, for sure. 

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18 hours ago, The Shoer 27979 said:

I agree with lumpy, 100%

Yep.  Me too.  

 

My daughter says I shouldn't be allowed to own anything with a computer chip and very little with an electric current running through it.

 

I simply prefer not to trust some things 

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17 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Mine has the secondary key-lock for the dial.

OLG

I was looking at one that had that feature also. Seems to be the smart thing to do!

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2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I was looking at one that had that feature also. Seems to be the smart thing to do!

Here is for one gun:

 

http://www.libertysafe.com/handgun-vault-hdx-150-smart-vault-ps-31-pg-108.html

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Thanks to all who replied. You have definitely confirmed my prejudice against electronic locks on anything I need to be able to access reliably. Simply put, I do not trust them! I still can't help but think that the key backup to an electronic lock is a weak point but confess I have no experience with them. Anyone?

 

I, too, have a good bit of experience with S&G combination locks and the fun involved in changing the combination. The only ones that I have known to fail were the result of someone resetting the combination on the usual indicator line, not the reset indicator line a little counterclockwise of the opening indicator line. The kind where you had to remove the dials to reset the combination I, fortunately, never had to deal with.

 

    Warhorse

 

 

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20 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

I have four with dial locks and two with keypad locks - no problems with any of them, nor have I ever seen first hand a problem with an electronic lock. I've heard enough 2nd and 3rd hand accounts and Internet horror stories to make me think I should change them to dial locks though. Electronics fail, that's a fact. But mechanical stuff fails too, also a fact, but usually less often. :mellow:

 

"My neighbor's former roommate's cousin's adopted brother's biological father's boss knew someone at his former workplace who said his dad's stepbrother had a neighbor who had one fail."

 

I'm another one in this category.  Wife likes how quickly she can get in to get jewelry and her stuff

 

cr

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1 hour ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

I'm another one in this category.  Wife likes how quickly she can get in to get jewelry and her stuff

 

cr

 

They do make safe locks that combine the keypad with the mechanical dial.

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