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Cheyenne Culpepper 32827

Catrtridge loops latest ruling

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This was from Palewolf,

 

 

After considerable discussion, the combined WB/ROC has come to a final decision regarding the question as to the legality of "angled cartridge loops" on gun/ammo belts and slides:

Laterally-angled cartridge loops on belts and ammo slides are LEGAL and ALLOWED for SASS competition use.
This ruling rescinds all previous rulings and opinions.
 
 

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It has always confused me how so many 20th and 21st century things fall within the spirit of the game. I am new to SASS, only 20 years or so, but in my first year I heard the comment over the camp fire that when the IPSC shooters infiltrate SASS, we are done as a purist sport. Mind you, I have no problems with gamers, except when they chide and cajole me for being slow or holding up their posse.  I grew up with the likes of Bob Bose Bell and Mike Venturino. I wear period correct rags and shoot period correct shooters. I usually shoot tight old Colts and Chinresters made before 1920. My skatterguns are a London Richards or one of my old '97's. All are shot with carefully crafted safe loads at maximum safe. I have been out of the game since 2009, when my daughter went to grad school. Looking to get back in, I am THOROUGHLY confused by the externally affected mods of short stroking. The modifications are invisible, but the end affect is EXTERNAL, the hammers not going to the apex of 19th century pistols or the levers not traveling to the 19th century guns. I have an engineer friend working on a self cocking old Vaquero with nothing showing externally. Would THIS be legal? Any thing for an advantage? Angled cartridge loops? My leather is either 19th century made or designed. Are there classes reserved for those adhering to actual old West designs? Are there classes reserved for the short stroked, angled looped shooters?  In my last shoot, there was a competitor allowed to shoot in T-shirt, shorts and ball cap. Only part of my departing had to do with college costs. Mark "Dirty Doc" Zachary

        

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Dirty Doc. that badge number is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too low :) 

 

Your points have been repeated for decades. Classic Cowboy is the closest to solving the "problem". Did you know Classic Cowboy was the invention of San Quentin, one our noted cowboys that has served the Wild Bunch well and participated in numerous  committees. He used to run MuleCamp when it was held at MuleCamp Springs in Georgia.  He had a famous saying. "Choose your category carefully." He was a good'n.

Did you know that B Western was invented by the notorious Coyote  Calhoun. Still can picture him in the wooly white chaps and the 15 gallon hat. Another cowboy who was a member of the Wild Bunch and traveled around to a number of shoots working at his role as the ambassador representing SASS.

If you read about SASS, the point is that Cowboy Action Shooting is a game. A game invented to shoot the cowboy guns. Be aware that most all of the original members of the Wild Bunch were IPSC shooters. I mean run and gun with 1911s and revolvers no doubt tricked out by the best. 

Mike Venturino. Great writer and Black Powder afficionado  but always whined that nobody loaded their guns full of black like he did. 

I guess the bottom line is to ask oneself "Am I legal?" 

Now I can go make gun belts with angled loops :) 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dirty Doc, SASS #18176 said:

It has always confused me how so many 20th and 21st century things fall within the spirit of the game. I am new to SASS, only 20 years or so, but in my first year I heard the comment over the camp fire that when the IPSC shooters infiltrate SASS, we are done as a purist sport. Mind you, I have no problems with gamers, except when they chide and cajole me for being slow or holding up their posse.  I grew up with the likes of Bob Bose Bell and Mike Venturino. I wear period correct rags and shoot period correct shooters. I usually shoot tight old Colts and Chinresters made before 1920. My skatterguns are a London Richards or one of my old '97's. All are shot with carefully crafted safe loads at maximum safe. I have been out of the game since 2009, when my daughter went to grad school. Looking to get back in, I am THOROUGHLY confused by the externally affected mods of short stroking. The modifications are invisible, but the end affect is EXTERNAL, the hammers not going to the apex of 19th century pistols or the levers not traveling to the 19th century guns. I have an engineer friend working on a self cocking old Vaquero with nothing showing externally. Would THIS be legal? Any thing for an advantage? Angled cartridge loops? My leather is either 19th century made or designed. Are there classes reserved for those adhering to actual old West designs? Are there classes reserved for the short stroked, angled looped shooters?  In my last shoot, there was a competitor allowed to shoot in T-shirt, shorts and ball cap. Only part of my departing had to do with college costs. Mark "Dirty Doc" Zachary

        

first, rifles have been short stroked long before 09...   someone was working on a 73 that you only had to lever for the first round,,, THAT is was caused the formation of the MODS COMMITTEE,  to reign in the tricks,,,  and it isn't legal to shoot in t shirts and such,, unless it's really hot and has be declared as being ok...    oh you have me beat,,, on 16 or 17 yrs in SASS

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On 1/13/2018 at 5:30 PM, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

first, rifles have been short stroked long before 09...   someone was working on a 73 that you only had to lever for the first round,,, THAT is was caused the formation of the MODS COMMITTEE,  to reign in the tricks,,,  and it isn't legal to shoot in t shirts and such,, unless it's really hot and has be declared as being ok...    oh you have me beat,,, on 16 or 17 yrs in SASS

Red Cent said; "Dirty Doc. that badge number is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too low :) I have 2 badges and aliases; #18176 is "Dirty Doc". Badge #3362 is "Brothel Doc". Got cvaught at the latter and had to change my name to protect the innocent. McZ

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 4:55 PM, Red Cent said:

Dirty Doc. that badge number is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too low :) 

 

Your points have been repeated for decades. Classic Cowboy is the closest to solving the "problem". Did you know Classic Cowboy was the invention of San Quentin, one our noted cowboys that has served the Wild Bunch well and participated in numerous  committees. He used to run MuleCamp when it was held at MuleCamp Springs in Georgia.  He had a famous saying. "Choose your category carefully." He was a good'n.

Did you know that B Western was invented by the notorious Coyote  Calhoun. Still can picture him in the wooly white chaps and the 15 gallon hat. Another cowboy who was a member of the Wild Bunch and traveled around to a number of shoots working at his role as the ambassador representing SASS.

If you read about SASS, the point is that Cowboy Action Shooting is a game. A game invented to shoot the cowboy guns. Be aware that most all of the original members of the Wild Bunch were IPSC shooters. I mean run and gun with 1911s and revolvers no doubt tricked out by the best. 

Mike Venturino. Great writer and Black Powder afficionado  but always whined that nobody loaded their guns full of black like he did. 

I guess the bottom line is to ask oneself "Am I legal?" 

Now I can go make gun belts with angled loops :) 

 

 

I know San Quentin from years back. Yes, it IS a shooting game, but as Cherokee Charlie told me; "It ain't about how you shoot, but how you dress and how cool your Irons are." I TRY to use old original shooters, but use Uberti clones for when I feel Frisky. When cajoled about holding up a possee, I go back to my truck and retrieve the UBER clones of the skooters I am humping to shoot just ONE stage fast. 19th century irons HAVE to be handled gently; the safe loads are safe, but the snatching of levers and hammers can be damaging, but not to an Italian. My 1889 Marlin 38-40 will shoot one hole groups off hand at 15-20 yards, but if it is cycled like my Harlan Wolff Ubers, it will break your heart. JOKE ONLY: Maybe a "Gamers" class for the short stroked ultra fast top 5=10%ers?? "Expert" Class would be less rude. I love them all, but sometimes not during a match. I don't go to shoots to be insulted. 

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I clean forgot; what advantage does angled loops provide?? I usw use a bandoleer.

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"...what advantage does angled loops provide??"

 

Have no idea. 

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As mentioned it's a game and I play it like I played cowboys and Indians when I was 12.  For others the game is speed and overall standing.  For some, being able to forget the present and travel back to the Old West

 

As long as it's legal by SASS rules I don't let it mess with my enjoyment not matter what others do.  

 

cheyenne

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Now let me ask the stupid question - are shotgun loops = cartridge loops?  To me they are different.

Other than occasional pretty much the shotgun is the only firearm loaded on the line. 

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42 minutes ago, LostVaquero said:

Now let me ask the stupid question - are shotgun loops = cartridge loops?  To me they are different.

Other than occasional pretty much the shotgun is the only firearm loaded on the line. 

 

Definition of "CARTRIDGE" added to pinned post:

 

 

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On Saturday, January 13, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Dirty Doc, SASS #18176 said:

It has always confused me how so many 20th and 21st century things fall within the spirit of the game. I am new to SASS, only 20 years or so, but in my first year I heard the comment over the camp fire that when the IPSC shooters infiltrate SASS, we are done as a purist sport. Mind you, I have no problems with gamers, except when they chide and cajole me for being slow or holding up their posse.  I grew up with the likes of Bob Bose Bell and Mike Venturino. I wear period correct rags and shoot period correct shooters. I usually shoot tight old Colts and Chinresters made before 1920. My skatterguns are a London Richards or one of my old '97's. All are shot with carefully crafted safe loads at maximum safe. I have been out of the game since 2009, when my daughter went to grad school. Looking to get back in, I am THOROUGHLY confused by the externally affected mods of short stroking. The modifications are invisible, but the end affect is EXTERNAL, the hammers not going to the apex of 19th century pistols or the levers not traveling to the 19th century guns. I have an engineer friend working on a self cocking old Vaquero with nothing showing externally. Would THIS be legal? Any thing for an advantage? Angled cartridge loops? My leather is either 19th century made or designed. Are there classes reserved for those adhering to actual old West designs? Are there classes reserved for the short stroked, angled looped shooters?  In my last shoot, there was a competitor allowed to shoot in T-shirt, shorts and ball cap. Only part of my departing had to do with college costs. Mark "Dirty Doc" 

 

Basically if it's in the name of speed if it's not legal now it will be soon enough give it a few years and I wouldn't be surprised.

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I understand the point being made, and I understand you need to grow as a sport. USPSA has introduced PCC and people are complaining that it’s not a handgun. It has brought in over 1500 shooters into their sport. I remember when Blackhawks were being used then modern was fazed out. Now some of our best and fastest shooters are using them again. As long as everyone is enjoying themselves I don’t care. It is a fantasy game and we grow to get more members and keep growing or we will slowly lose out to other shooting sports. As long as we keep the general idea that started this game, it will continue as new shooters come in and us old guys leave. 

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 3:11 PM, Dirty Doc, SASS #18176 said:

It has always confused me how so many 20th and 21st century things fall within the spirit of the game. I am new to SASS, only 20 years or so, but in my first year I heard the comment over the camp fire that when the IPSC shooters infiltrate SASS, we are done as a purist sport. Mind you, I have no problems with gamers, except when they chide and cajole me for being slow or holding up their posse.  I grew up with the likes of Bob Bose Bell and Mike Venturino. I wear period correct rags and shoot period correct shooters. I usually shoot tight old Colts and Chinresters made before 1920. My skatterguns are a London Richards or one of my old '97's. All are shot with carefully crafted safe loads at maximum safe. I have been out of the game since 2009, when my daughter went to grad school. Looking to get back in, I am THOROUGHLY confused by the externally affected mods of short stroking. The modifications are invisible, but the end affect is EXTERNAL, the hammers not going to the apex of 19th century pistols or the levers not traveling to the 19th century guns. I have an engineer friend working on a self cocking old Vaquero with nothing showing externally. Would THIS be legal? Any thing for an advantage? Angled cartridge loops? My leather is either 19th century made or designed. Are there classes reserved for those adhering to actual old West designs? Are there classes reserved for the short stroked, angled looped shooters?  In my last shoot, there was a competitor allowed to shoot in T-shirt, shorts and ball cap. Only part of my departing had to do with college costs. Mark "Dirty Doc" Zachary

        

 

Howdy Doc,

Razzing and hacking on each other was something done among most everyone that worked together in the real old west. Lots of the  movies that we so dearly love and try to portray have the same thing!  If you have a "gamer" doing that to you with a legit ugly attitude I would say that is the rare exception among our competitors. Having an attitude is not limited to a particular range of stage time. Don't let that still your joy!

 

The only option that I'm aware of where everyone adheres to actual old West designs is (was?) NCOWS- if you can find one of those around any more. Don't give up having your personal fun because others run a bit different. (Ford/Chevy).  99% of us enjoy seeing others, like yourself, dress up like you do and shoot what guns you shoot!

 

Everyone is wired different and has personal preferences. Everyone can always dispense more grace.

Best to ya!^_^

 

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 2:11 PM, Dirty Doc, SASS #18176 said:

It has always confused me how so many 20th and 21st century things fall within the spirit of the game. I am new to SASS, only 20 years or so, but in my first year I heard the comment over the camp fire that when the IPSC shooters infiltrate SASS, we are done as a purist sport. Mind you, I have no problems with gamers, except when they chide and cajole me for being slow or holding up their posse.  I grew up with the likes of Bob Bose Bell and Mike Venturino. I wear period correct rags and shoot period correct shooters. I usually shoot tight old Colts and Chinresters made before 1920. My skatterguns are a London Richards or one of my old '97's. All are shot with carefully crafted safe loads at maximum safe. I have been out of the game since 2009, when my daughter went to grad school. Looking to get back in, I am THOROUGHLY confused by the externally affected mods of short stroking. The modifications are invisible, but the end affect is EXTERNAL, the hammers not going to the apex of 19th century pistols or the levers not traveling to the 19th century guns. I have an engineer friend working on a self cocking old Vaquero with nothing showing externally. Would THIS be legal? Any thing for an advantage? Angled cartridge loops? My leather is either 19th century made or designed. Are there classes reserved for those adhering to actual old West designs? Are there classes reserved for the short stroked, angled looped shooters?  In my last shoot, there was a competitor allowed to shoot in T-shirt, shorts and ball cap. Only part of my departing had to do with college costs. Mark "Dirty Doc" Zachary

 

"IPSC shooter infiltrate SASS" ???   It's my understanding SASS was started by IPSC shooters who told everyone to bring a single action pistol next week if they had one.  I was told he was SASS #1 and is called The Judge. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong. 

 

 

        

 

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13 hours ago, Colt Walker 45 said:

I understand the point being made, and I understand you need to grow as a sport. USPSA has introduced PCC and people are complaining that it’s not a handgun. It has brought in over 1500 shooters into their sport. I remember when Blackhawks were being used then modern was fazed out. Now some of our best and fastest shooters are using them again. As long as everyone is enjoying themselves I don’t care. It is a fantasy game and we grow to get more members and keep growing or we will slowly lose out to other shooting sports. As long as we keep the general idea that started this game, it will continue as new shooters come in and us old guys leave. 

 

+1

great way to express my feeling

 

cr

 

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On 1/13/2018 at 4:11 PM, Dirty Doc, SASS #18176 said:

  I have an engineer friend working on a self cocking old Vaquero with nothing showing externally. Would THIS be legal? Any thing for an advantage? 

        

 

Capture.PNG

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Cheyenne Culpepper,

Thanks for posting this.

 

Dirty Doc, I returned to SASS about a year and a half ago after 10 year absence. I left for reasons I won’t go into here. But I did leave and when I returned it all seemed so different. EVERYONE is shooting “gamer” loads. Heck you never saw the word “gamer” on the Wire. Heck, I figured the word was banned...Anyway, things sure seemed different. And then I went to my first match.

Nothing for me had changed at all. I had myself a BLAST!

 

Nothing really had changed. Oh sure, there are some differences but when it comes right down to it, it’s all the same with some different trimmings. My first match back my rifle jammed up somethin’ awful. In seconds a Pard I had never met before handed me a 73 and a box of cartridges and I used his rifle for the rest of the match. It was lunch time and I went off to find a place to sit and was immediately wrangled up and taken to a table full of folks and by the end of lunch I had me some new friends. :D

Almost brought tears to my eyes. I was back! And it’s all good!

 

Hit yourself a match and have a good time. Leave all that worry at home. :)

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On 1/23/2018 at 9:58 AM, Caboose said:

 

My apologies!! I intended to say IPSC SHOOTING, not IPSC SHOOTERS. Of course there are many fine IPSC cowboys. The Wild Bunch probably brought in a lot of money for SASS, but first starting with "authentic firearms and gear, it quickly turned into a pure speed shoot similar to IPSC.  IPSC shooters did the world at large a HUGE favor by initiating CAS. I came from pure Skeet to CAS. I never competed with a 1911, but that was my carry gun and fun gun for 40 years. Saved me in five muggings. However, I was never interested in IPSC. I trained with John Shaw. Loved it. Couldn't afford the space guns and dedication to hours of practice. I am a cowboy; lazy, dirty slow son of a gun...Dirty Doc

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2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Cheyenne Culpepper,

Thanks for posting this.

 

Dirty Doc, I returned to SASS about a year and a half ago after 10 year absence. I left for reasons I won’t go into here. But I did leave and when I returned it all seemed so different. EVERYONE is shooting “gamer” loads. Heck you never saw the word “gamer” on the Wire. Heck, I figured the word was banned...Anyway, things sure seemed different. And then I went to my first match.

Nothing for me had changed at all. I had myself a BLAST!

 

Nothing really had changed. Oh sure, there are some differences but when it comes right down to it, it’s all the same with some different trimmings. My first match back my rifle jammed up somethin’ awful. In seconds a Pard I had never met before handed me a 73 and a box of cartridges and I used his rifle for the rest of the match. It was lunch time and I went off to find a place to sit and was immediately wrangled up and taken to a table full of folks and by the end of lunch I had me some new friends. :D

Almost brought tears to my eyes. I was back! And it’s all good!

 

Hit yourself a match and have a good time. Leave all that worry at home. :)

Now THAT is the spirit of the game. Doc

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On 1/23/2018 at 9:58 AM, Caboose said:

 

My apologies! I meant to say IPSC SHOOTING, not shooters. I know that CAS was the bastid stepchild of IPSC shooters and I thank them for it. Doc

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3 hours ago, Sgt. Chesty SASS # 73317 said:

 

Capture.PNG

Sorry Pard, I was being facetious. Doc

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No need to apologize Dirty Doc, just wanted to remind all of us how SASS was started.  Personally I enjoy the competitive speed part of SASS and I'm really not that speedy. But I understand how that may turn off some shooters.  You might consider starting a NCOWS group at your most frequent shooting club if your more interested in authentic old west shooting. One of my local clubs in Wisconsin, WOWS ( Wisconsin Old West Shootists ) have both SASS and NCOWS matches on different weekends. Many of the SASS shooters also shoot the NCOWS matches. 

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On 1/13/2018 at 4:55 PM, Red Cent said:

Dirty Doc. that badge number is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too low :) 

 

Your points have been repeated for decades. Classic Cowboy is the closest to solving the "problem". Did you know Classic Cowboy was the invention of San Quentin, one our noted cowboys that has served the Wild Bunch well and participated in numerous  committees. He used to run MuleCamp when it was held at MuleCamp Springs in Georgia.  He had a famous saying. "Choose your category carefully." He was a good'n.

Did you know that B Western was invented by the notorious Coyote  Calhoun. Still can picture him in the wooly white chaps and the 15 gallon hat. Another cowboy who was a member of the Wild Bunch and traveled around to a number of shoots working at his role as the ambassador representing SASS.

If you read about SASS, the point is that Cowboy Action Shooting is a game. A game invented to shoot the cowboy guns. Be aware that most all of the original members of the Wild Bunch were IPSC shooters. I mean run and gun with 1911s and revolvers no doubt tricked out by the best. 

Mike Venturino. Great writer and Black Powder afficionado  but always whined that nobody loaded their guns full of black like he did. 

I guess the bottom line is to ask oneself "Am I legal?" 

Now I can go make gun belts with angled loops :) 

 

 

When I worked in my Dad'd service station we had change dispensers on out belts. Could one engineer a thumblever cartridge dispenser and no be shot for skulldugery???

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and you left women out of your lists of interests

 

As an old 'koot myself, one could hit that lever pretty fast. But since we don't need, generally, but one at a time, the device would be a bit superfluous.

 

 

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PLUS ONE to BARLEYCORN!!!

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