Double Jeopardy - Shooting Two Categories

[Noz]

21 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I’ve seen shooters shoot the stage cowboy and change leather and guns and shoot it WB or Pike as they call it, I’ve never seen anyone shoot a match two different cowboy classifications though. Seems like you have to pay a double entry fee to shoot it twice also.

You would see my back as I loaded up and left.

[Yul Lose]

2 hours ago, Noz said:

You would see my back as I loaded up and left.

Oh well. 

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

We don't allow a user to enter twice.

I don't believe that it is fair to the other shooters.  While you may be "paying" twice, everyone else just gets to shoot once per stage, and you can't "work twice" to make up for the slot you are taking.

 

 

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

2 hours ago, Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life said:

We don't allow a user to enter twice.

I don't believe that it is fair to the other shooters.  While you may be "paying" twice, everyone else just gets to shoot once per stage, and you can't "work twice" to make up for the slot you are taking.

   

do you expect a shooter to work more than 1/2 the posses?  find someone who would be willing to say that I don't!!    like I said earlier,,, some used to say that you can't carry your weight if you shoot twice,,,, until,  until they saw me doing it,,,,  I believe the exact quote was.  "He works harder than anyone!"

 

it might be safer to qualify a statement,, such as,   I think it would be hard for a shooter to carry his weight on a stage.      yes it is!!! fortunately I'm a skinny butt!!  

[Sixgun Seamus]

I'll vouch for Culpepper on this one. I've seen it happen. I didn't even realize at first that he was shooting twice. He kept busy.

[Kingair]

So what will be next . . .  running it a 3rd time ?

 

Just a rookie but one run for all seems the most fair for all of us

[evil dogooder]

2 hours ago, Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life said:

We don't allow a user to enter twice.

I don't believe that it is fair to the other shooters.  While you may be "paying" twice, everyone else just gets to shoot once per stage, and you can't "work twice" to make up for the slot you are taking.

 

 

If every body on your posse is helping out they shouldn't have to work for more than 1/3 of the stage if you shoot at the beginning and end it's very possible to still work for 1/3

 

 Say a posse of 15 if you shoot first you should be able to be cleared and unloaded and back to the line to work before the first five are done if you hustle more like after the 3rd. Then you work the next 10 or more and still have time shoot.  Doing your fair share for both runs. 

 

  If someone is having to work for more than 1/3 of the stage then the posse Marshall isn't doing his job.  Somebody isn't helping. 

[Chief Rick]

On 12/9/2017 at 11:21 AM, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

I want to continue my progress as a new shooter in my category and work on improving, and I'm not necessarily interested in changing categories; however, I would like to shoot Gunfighter in the same local club match.

 

Should I avoid even trying this as a new shooter?

 

My opinion - as a new shooter - don't overload yourself.  Pick a style and stick with it until you're comfortable and/or desire a new challenge.

 

How are you shooting with your non-dominant hand?

 

If you want to be able to shoot duelist/double-duelist/gunfighter or traditional, without earning a "P" - go B-Western.

 

Only concern "may" be your rifle - not sure how the Big Boy relates to the category requirements.

 

Quote

Rifles: Any SASS legal rifle of 1880 or later design or a replica thereof (e.g.,
Burgess, Lightning Rifle, 1892, 1894 Winchester or Marlin).

 

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

another way to get in more shooting time,,,, if you can,, help set up the day before,,, and ask Arcadia Outlaw if you can shoot after set up, and ask him for tips!

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 hours ago, Sixgun Seamus said:

I'll vouch for Culpepper on this one. I've seen it happen. I didn't even realize at first that he was shooting twice. He kept busy.

+ 10000 

[Three Foot Johnson]

I see some people work their arse off, several others working half their arse off, and one in particular who won't lift a finger to help with anything.

"I didn't pay to come out here and work, I paid to come out and shoot"

On the last stage, he shoots first so he can pack up when he's done, go to the clubhouse, change into his golf clothes, and hit the links.

[Keystone, SASS # 47578]

Well, 

Some clubs are small & everyone is needed to keep the match following. Other better populated clubs with larger posses could probably handle a cowpoke shooting two times per stage in two different categories. Seems like an individual club’s decision. Doubt I could do it know but ifin I tried, it wouldn’t be in the heat of summer. 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

Fellow Pards:

     First of all I'd like to clear up any misunderstandings that I may not have clarified in my original POST.

(1) Just like Cheyenne Culpepper, I believe I contribute more than my share of Posse duties when I shoot with the Pistoleros.

(2) Also, I don't just pick up brass, I will spot as well, and most times, end up doing both either within a single stage or over the entire match.

(3) In response to Judge'm All Duncan (below), how many other shooters have their non-shooting wife participate in Posse duties. In fact the opposite of what he says is true, in that not only does the Posse get myself and my wife assisting, another shooter isn't having to perform Posse duties because she is helping.

 

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 6:25 PM, Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320 said:

If you still do the same work on the posse both times.

Just because your wife chooses to pick brass doesn't mean you can slack off.

 

Cowboy way!

 

(4)  I never intended to try shooting two categories at a match at this time in my progress. The OP was intended to find out (A) if it was allowed, (B) has anyone tried it before, and (C) what were the results.

(5)  I would also, never attempt to shoot either Double Duelist or Gunfighter without having practiced at the range first.

       I'm not .

 

Hope this helps in future responses.

 

[Too Tall Bob]

If someone wants to:

 

continue my progress as a new shooter in my category and work on improving, and I'm not necessarily interested in changing categories;”

 

why on this earth would he/she throw GF into the mix when they haven’t yet become even close to being somewhat competent in the category chosen to start with? If you want to shoot an extra round and your club is willing, then shoot it as an “open” category and shoot the same style. Pay for the 2nd shooter at the front door, put in twice the amount of stage duties on each stage to make up for your extra time. AND FOR HEAVEN’s SAKE DON’T GO BACK AND PARK YOUR BACKSIDE IN A CHAIR BECAUSE GOSH A- MIGHTY I SURE AM TIRED!

 

just my 2 bits

let the contradictions, qualifications and verbal beatings begin!

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

19 minutes ago, Too Tall Bob said:

If someone wants to:

 

continue my progress as a new shooter in my category and work on improving, and I'm not necessarily interested in changing categories;”

 

why on this earth would he/she throw GF into the mix when they haven’t yet become even close to being somewhat competent in the category chosen to start with? If you want to shoot an extra round and your club is willing, then shoot it as an “open” category and shoot the same style. Pay for the 2nd shooter at the front door, put in twice the amount of stage duties on each stage to make up for your extra time. AND FOR HEAVEN’s SAKE DON’T GO BACK AND PARK YOUR BACKSIDE IN A CHAIR BECAUSE GOSH A- MIGHTY I SURE AM TIRED!

 

just my 2 bits

let the contradictions, qualifications and verbal beatings begin!

 

Too Tall Bob:

     Thus the clarification:

(4)  I never intended to try shooting two categories at a match at this time in my progress. The OP was intended to find out (A) if it was allowed, (B) has anyone tried it before, and (C) what were the results.

[Too Tall Bob]

There you go -

a: some do, some don’t as you are seeing

b:  people have with mixed results which usually ends up upsetting other shooters

c:  see b

I will not get into a p’ing match with you regarding intentions of your op but when I read and re- read it I came to the conclusion swapping back and forth was your intent. If my conclusion was incorrect then “bad on me.” My statement still stands on all points. 

End of this discussion for me. 

[Three Foot Johnson]

Dang, it's been a tough crowd on the wire the past few days.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

18 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

another way to get in more shooting time,,,, if you can,, help set up the day before,,, and ask Arcadia Outlaw if you can shoot after set up, and ask him for tips!

 

Cheyenne:

     Arcadia is a great guy, and I've set up a match with him before along with Brucester Diamond and Cuban Crisis; however, because they set up on Friday at 2:00PM I am still at the office. (Took time off for the above).

    If and when I decide to try it, I'll get approval first; however, it will be some time though.

    (Question was posted to prompt discussion of a topic which, heretofore, had not been raised to my knowledge.)

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

8 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Dang, it's been a tough crowd on the wire the past few days.

 

J Bar:

                Tell me about it.

     

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

2 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

I see some people work their arse off, several others working half their arse off, and one in particular who won't lift a finger to help with anything.

"I didn't pay to come out here and work, I paid to come out and shoot"

On the last stage, he shoots first so he can pack up when he's done, go to the clubhouse, change into his golf clothes, and hit the links.

the second time that happened, they would recieve a dnf,,,, 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

Around these parts, some club's shoot both Saturday and Sunday so you can double your pleasure.  Then, as your skills improve, you could shoot one category each day to change it up.  

 

Double duelist is the natural progression to gunfighter and is an acceptable alternative when faced with a difficult GF stage. 

 

I encourage you to dry fire practice with your support hand to get it up to speed before live fire.  Then go ahead and switch over to DD in your age based category when you're comfortable.  You can shoot DD in most age based categories and also switch between styles.  Not common but not illegal.

 

Trying to shoot twice as much at a single match will wear you out so not for most folks.  It is a hoot to shoot two different categories at a match so have fun with it if given the opportunity.  If your wife is helping with posse duties and you do what you can, no one is going to complain.

 

 

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

29 minutes ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Dang, it's been a tough crowd on the wire the past few days.

 

Well, for about 1/3 of us, Winter as set in and you know how ornery some get, and it just would be the WIRE if a post didn't ricochet (so to speak) from the original intent and wind up in a "shooting."

[Totes Magoats]

I would have no issue if a shooter wanted to shoot twice.  It has not come up at our club that I can remember.

 

After our matches, we leave the line 'hot' so a shooter can get a little practice in if needed.  Not everyone has a place for live fire practice, except at a match.

 

Totes

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

22 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

do you expect a shooter to work more than 1/2 the posses?  find someone who would be willing to say that I don't!!    like I said earlier,,, some used to say that you can't carry your weight if you shoot twice,,,, until,  until they saw me doing it,,,,  I believe the exact quote was.  "He works harder than anyone!"

 

it might be safer to qualify a statement,, such as,   I think it would be hard for a shooter to carry his weight on a stage.      yes it is!!! fortunately I'm a skinny butt!!  

 

I'm sorry Cheyenne, I wasn't aware you were making this about you.

Given that I have never shot with you (to my knowledge), I cannot comment on the matter.

 

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

I was making the point that you can shoot twice, although I feel both times should NOT be for score, and still carry your weight on the posse.  Having said that, if it's a small posse, of course you can't. and then you shouldn't shoot twice.

 

 

[CodyMaverick]

3 hours ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

Fellow Pards:

     First of all I'd like to clear up any misunderstandings that I may not have clarified in my original POST.

(1) Just like Cheyenne Culpepper, I believe I contribute more than my share of Posse duties when I shoot with the Pistoleros.

(2) Also, I don't just pick up brass, I will spot as well, and most times, end up doing both either within a single stage or over the entire match.

(3) In response to Judge'm All Duncan (below), how many other shooters have their non-shooting wife participate in Posse duties. In fact the opposite of what he says is true, in that not only does the Posse get myself and my wife assisting, another shooter isn't having to perform Posse duties because she is helping.

 

 

(4)  I never intended to try shooting two categories at a match at this time in my progress. The OP was intended to find out (A) if it was allowed, (B) has anyone tried it before, and (C) what were the results.

(5)  I would also, never attempt to shoot either Double Duelist or Gunfighter without having practiced at the range first.

       I'm not .

 

Hope this helps in future responses.

 

1.)  I shot at a Tusco monthly this year on the same posse with Cheyenne.  He was shooting double but as Seamus mentioned it didn't impact the posse any, the scorekeeper was likely the only one who really noticed..   He's pretty darn fast in case you hadn't heard.  The rest of the time he spent chasing some poor shooter around with a timer in his hand,  maybe next year they'll let do a real job .   In any case this is just one fast shooter on the posse shooting twice,  if 4 or 5 wanted to, I believe it would cause a real problem and it wouldn't be fair not to let others do it also.

 

2.) I usually spot and will intermittently need to do a second job like keep score or reset targets.  I don't like to spot if I'm picking brass because I need to watch where the brass is going if the shooter is going to have any hopes of getting it back.

 

3.) I like to be doing something or else I don't feel very involved.  I have a regular day job and none of the posse 'duties' feel much like work to me.

 

4.) Did you get any answers yet?

 

5.) You trying to tell us you don't keep a spare bullet or two in your pocket?   Who was your mentor anyway? 

[Barry Sloe]

FKCGG: have you asked these questions at your local club/range?  If you have, what were their responses?

 

BS

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Im Not Sure on this 

I know Only GF can have two loaded guns out at one time .

So why cant you sign up as GF.

Then shoot the stage any way you like ?

Sound like it should work to me .

Just sayin 

Rooster 

PS. 

I know you would  not win your category but you can get practice shooting any style you like.

[Captain Clark]

10 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

I see some people work their arse off, several others working half their arse off, and one in particular who won't lift a finger to help with anything.

"I didn't pay to come out here and work, I paid to come out and shoot" The real arse!

On the last stage, he shoots first so he can pack up when he's done, go to the clubhouse, change into his golf clothes, and hit the links.

Those types don't usually 'grace' you with their presence for very long! They are far to pretentious for us mere mortals!

8 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

the second time that happened, they would recieve a dnf,,,, 

Amen a 1000 times! Plus don't forget the ... Father / son talk the 1st time it happens !

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

oh, and if they don't work, their brass doesn't get picked,,,

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

13 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Im Not Sure on this 

I know Only GF can have two loaded guns out at one time .

So why cant you sign up as GF.

Then shoot the stage any way you like ?

Sound like it should work to me .

Just sayin 

Rooster 

PS. 

I know you would  not win your category but you can get practice shooting any style you like.

Howdy Rooster, if signed up for GF you cannot shoot any way you like, as in two handed, or all 10 rounds with one hand......GF must shoot 5 from left-hand and 5 from right-hand unsupported. However, you can sign up for GF and shoot the entire match DD style if you like (and have 2 loaded revolvers out ) cause DD is an approved style for GF...... Good Luck

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

two loaded revolvers,,,,, not guns,,,,,,,,  I could have loaded rifle and a pistol in hand(s) at the same time

 

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

You know what I meant

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

17 hours ago, CodyMaverick said:

1.)  I shot at a Tusco monthly this year on the same posse with Cheyenne.  He was shooting double but as Seamus mentioned it didn't impact the posse any, the scorekeeper was likely the only one who really noticed..   He's pretty darn fast in case you hadn't heard.  The rest of the time he spent chasing some poor shooter around with a timer in his hand,  maybe next year they'll let do a real job .   In any case this is just one fast shooter on the posse shooting twice,  if 4 or 5 wanted to, I believe it would cause a real problem and it wouldn't be fair not to let others do it also.

 

2.) I usually spot and will intermittently need to do a second job like keep score or reset targets.  I don't like to spot if I'm picking brass because I need to watch where the brass is going if the shooter is going to have any hopes of getting it back.

 

3.) I like to be doing something or else I don't feel very involved.  I have a regular day job and none of the posse 'duties' feel much like work to me.

 

4.) Did you get any answers yet?

 

5.) You trying to tell us you don't keep a spare bullet or two in your pocket?   Who was your mentor anyway? 

 

CodyMaverick:

     I originally posted this THREAD, as I have seen numerous posts from shooters who have mentioned that they have changed shooting styles. My assumption was, that during their monthly matches, they shoot their current preferred style, and in their spare time, they go to the range (backyard if they have one ) and practice their new style. Once they feel comfortable, they begin shooting their new style at monthly matches.

     Being the inquisitive one, and since this question hasn't appeared to have been raised on the WIRE before, I pondered (A) were there any shooters who actually shot both styles at a monthly match, and (B) if so, how did their clubs handled those shooters (Pay twice?, Only score officially for one style?, MDQ for both styles if incurred in only one style?, etc.)

     With that as the preface for my OP, here are my responses to above:

 

1.) If a shooter was approved by their Club to shoot two styles, I would expect that shooter to only do so, as long as it didn't cause an issue, and if, eventually, more shooters wished to attempt the same thing, IMHO, some sort of compromise would have to be reached. Since based on the responses received so far in this THREAD, it appears to be a RARE occurrence, and one can only expect that there would not be a rush of shooters wanting to do same.

2.) I probably should have clarified that I never do both at the same time, same as you. I will however; spot shooters until I am ready to go to the LT, and once I have shot, take over duties, possibly picking up brass from another Posse member so they can shoot. Thus performing both task during the same stage, just not at the same time.

3.)  I agree with you 100%. Cost of admission to shoot...$10; cost to perform Posse duties....Priceless.

4.)  The consensus so far appears to be that it is a RARE occurrence. Cheyenne Culpepper has posted that he has indeed performed this task, * which indicates to me, that with the right Club and conditions, along with the right shooter, can make for an amicable resolution to a logical request. The balance of the responses point to the consequences of allowing such a request. (Which could explain why it may not have been raised on the WIRE before.)

5.)  I never really had a true mentor. Instead, I received lots of great advise from my fellow Pistolero members, who were never afraid to offer up corrections that I needed to correct, or improvements I could make to shoot better. My early training came from Brucester Diamond who showed me the ropes during my evaluation prior to shooting with the Club for the first time. I learned a lot from his years of experience.  I am also always in AWE of our Forty-Niner shooters Arcadia Outlaw and of course Santa Fe River Stan.  You haven't experienced excitement, until you've shot on their Posse, which I got the opportunity to do. (They just beat me by 196.42 seconds - RAW Score )

 

CodyMaverick - Thank you for taking the time to respond to my inquiry.

 

 

* NOTE:   means ENVY in this case.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

15 hours ago, Barry Sloe said:

FKCGG: have you asked these questions at your local club/range?  If you have, what were their responses?

BS

 

Barry:

     Great question; however, since I just came up with the topic and I never intended to try this technique at this time, I've never asked.

     At the next shoot, I will be sure to inquire as to the possibility of attempting this at our Club to determine if it would be allowed and if so what the guidelines would be. I'll post the answers when I get them.