MINIMUM ENTRANT CATEGORY MANDATES

[Fordyce Beals]

The Hand book says;

In the interest of ensuring and promoting a true competitive environment at the SASS
Sanctioned Championship level of competition (State, Regional, Divisional, National, and
World Championships), all possible category breakdowns may be offered, however, categories
above the base categories will only be honored if they meet the minimum entry mandates
decreed by SASS and the Championship agreements. Ladies’ categories must have a
minimum of three entrants and open categories must have a minimum of seven entrants in
order to be honored at the SASS Championship level

 

Further the handbook shows when not enough shooters enter, how to breakdown categories:

 

- Gunfighter  Lady Senior Gunfighter  Lady Senior Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.
- Duelist  Lady Duelist  Lady Senior Duelist  Lady Silver Senior Duelist.

 

So my question is:  Why do the ladies have to shoot against the base, open (men's) categories?

 

From my perspective it seems fair if at a State or above match showing up and shooting your chosen category against 100, 10 1, or no other shooters,  you still are shooting the way you are allowed under the rules and should be recognized as such and not made to shoot in another category.

 

Yes I know the cost of awards will be used by match directors to justify "category negation" .

 

Fordyce Beals

 
 

[StirrupTrouble]

The new version of the book has been clarified. Match director's discretion to what is offered, and changed to "may" from "will." Base categories will always be offered. I think it was trying to get away from spreading categories so thin that the awards were becoming meaningless

[Fordyce Beals]

Stirruptrouble said:

I think it was trying to get away from spreading categories so thin that the awards were becoming meaningless.

 

I don't see myself that for example if you are the only one in the state or higher that chooses to shoot a particular category, recognition is meaningless?

 

Fordyce 

[Major Art Tillery]

Yeah it is becoming a nightmare for matches to cover every category with an award... Mostly the ones with only one entry.  We want to give them something, because to some folks that award means alot.  But for example we had a match that had a couple folks that was the only entry in their category... So they ended up with 1st place category award and State Championship award.  So they went home with $50 dollars of awards.

 

You hate to do it but they really should be put in another category of there choice.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

SASS is an entertainment industry... I understand cutting cats when the award is very expensive, ie Winter Range,,,

 

that being said,,, please the people who come to your shoot!   a $50 award after paying over $100 to enter,,  and all the other expenses,,,  how badly to you want them to attend...?

 

[Calico Mary]

I shoot regularly in one of smallest, if not THE smallest official categories in SASS...not to win an award, but to challenge myself and to have fun....and I spend as much to attend a match as any other shooter there....why should I have to change my normal category and have less fun simply because no one else wants to play with me??  It's not like I haven't tried to get other ladies interested.....not my fault if no one else wants to put in the extra effort to shoot LFCGF......

[Major Art Tillery]

I am not talking about consolidating the "core" SASS recognized categories.  I was talking say if someone wanted to sign up for say, Frontier Cartridge senior Classic Cowboy.... Or  Josey Wales Frontier Cartridge Classic Cowboy Gunfighter.   Should these be recognized and awarded? In my opinion "NO" if there is only one signed up... Move to a different category.

[Assassin]

Some of the categories were valid 10 years ago when we had twice as many shooters involved in CAS, there were enough folks with loud enough voices to create new categories. The numbers don't add up anymore and diminishing categories need to be abolished. If I were King rather than Court Jester, I would make folks shoot in their age based categories and abolish half of the categories. This is my 22nd year and I remember seeing buckles years ago and they were coveted, I couldn't wait to win one, they were tough to earn and were not given out for showing up like today. I've mentioned this before, if the top 11 shooters at EOT or WR are all in one category, #11 wins nothing. He was 11th in the nation or world and the person that chose wisely in a sub category wins a big trophy and 1st place honors for finishing

450th, I feel sub categories should be recognized but not rewarded the same as major categories. 

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

IF  someone wants an "off the wall" cat at a big shoot,,, then they should have to get others to join,,, maybe 5 or 3, whatever the MD decides,,,,  at locals sure,,

[Fordyce Beals]

16 hours ago, Calico Mary said:

I shoot regularly in one of smallest, if not THE smallest official categories in SASS...not to win an award, but to challenge myself and to have fun....and I spend as much to attend a match as any other shooter there....why should I have to change my normal category and have less fun simply because no one else wants to play with me??  It's not like I haven't tried to get other ladies interested.....not my fault if no one else wants to put in the extra effort to shoot LFCGF......

This post is the reason I made the OP.  Thank you Calico Mary!

 

Fordyce

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

19 hours ago, Calico Mary said:

I shoot regularly in one of smallest, if not THE smallest official categories in SASS...not to win an award, but to challenge myself and to have fun....and I spend as much to attend a match as any other shooter there....why should I have to change my normal category and have less fun simply because no one else wants to play with me??  It's not like I haven't tried to get other ladies interested.....not my fault if no one else wants to put in the extra effort to shoot LFCGF......

Yep, same thing happened to Heather several years ago. She was gonna change her category but the MD and myself said no way, you worked all year to do this ya ain't changing now. One of the gals on our posse was shooting Outlaw I think, said if she had known she would have signed up for GF too. The next year she did, and there were exactly 2 in that category. Good Luck

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

15 hours ago, Assassin said:

Some of the categories were valid 10 years ago when we had twice as many shooters involved in CAS, there were enough folks with loud enough voices to create new categories. The numbers don't add up anymore and diminishing categories need to be abolished. If I were King rather than Court Jester, I would make folks shoot in their age based categories and abolish half of the categories. This is my 22nd year and I remember seeing buckles years ago and they were coveted, I couldn't wait to win one, they were tough to earn and were not given out for showing up like today. I've mentioned this before, if the top 11 shooters at EOT or WR are all in one category, #11 wins nothing. He was 11th in the nation or world and the person that chose wisely in a sub category wins a big trophy and 1st place honors for finishing

450th, I feel sub categories should be recognized but not rewarded the same as major categories. 

If everyone had to shoot in age based categories, how would you handle the gunfighter shooting styles, which are not allowed in age based categories?

 

As for those subcategories, I once had a guy at the California state match complain to me that he shot better than me, yet didn't get an award, whereas I got 5th place. It's not always about choosing wisely. Many of these smaller categories are that way because they are not easy categories, but rather the hardest ones. Mine was FCGF. I told this pard of mine that in FCGF, the match is the easy part. The hard part is everything that goes into shooting one of the toughest categories there are. All of the hours spent learning to shoot two guns at the same time, dealing with the loading, and the clean up of BP, etc. And that's nothing compared to the frontiersmen. Just because a category doesn't have many participants doesn't mean it's an easy path to a buckle.

[Count Sandor, SASS #74075]

6 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

IF  someone wants an "off the wall" cat at a big shoot,,, then they should have to get others to join,,, maybe 5 or 3, whatever the MD decides,,,,  at locals sure,,

 

At our monthly matches, we accept any "reasonable" category (either one made by combining base SASS categories, or something like Pale Rider, Steampunk, etc.) - so, you want to shoot Elderstatesman Frontier Cartridge Double Duelist this month? Go for it! The flip side is that we present results immediately after the shoot, and we award poker chips (accumulate 5 chips and you get a free match) to the winner in each category that has at least two entrants. If you are in a one person category, you will be recognized at awards, but no chip.

 

For our annual, Fall Round-Up (yes, a shameless plug!) we accept and award any category - regardless of number of shooters - that was utilized at Winter Range in that calendar year. In addition, if three shooters can get together and get entries in for some other reasonable (as above) category, we will accept and award for it also.

 

At any rate, this policy has worked for us for the past six years...YMMV!

 

CS

[Assassin]

4 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

If everyone had to shoot in age based categories, how would you handle the gunfighter shooting styles, which are not allowed in age based categories?

I'm talking about age based categories. As for others, if there is little participation they need to go away. The categories were much simpler before they became so specific. When gunfighter first started there were frontier cartridge gunfighters, just no specific category just for them. Look back at the results from 2008 on the WR website, that is what we should be using. Things are out of control, the categories are like government spending, cuts need to be made. I used to shoot in the modern category, it was a major category until some genius decided it needed to go away. Was I pissed, yes, I got over it and started shooting in the 49r cat. If there are only 10 people signed up in the category it's obvious that it is easy to buckle in that particular category, do the math it's a sure win isn't it.

[Calico Mary]

you wanna get rid of some categories, how bout we start with yours.....

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

2 hours ago, Calico Mary said:

you wanna get rid of some categories, how bout we start with yours.....

Yeaaa!! And you can start with the age based by going back to 10 year splits for senior instead of the 5 they changed it to. Ya got senior, sliver, super, baron, centennial, bushwacker...etc...etc. And yes I'm a senior (no I've never signed for it...I shoot FCD or FCGF)

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

1 hour ago, Calico Mary said:

you wanna get rid of some categories, how bout we start with yours.....

They DID! And let me tell you it hurts.

I shot modern for 10 years or so till somebody ELSE decided we didn't need it anymore. Since when are categories determined by what we NEED? 

I agree with Assassin that there are too many categories. But,so what? They want their own category-OK. My thought: you need TWO to make a category- one award for first place. Only one in a category- no award. An award means NOTHING if you didn't beat SOMEONE to get it. "Participation" awards:meaningless.

I used to attend a match in Raton NM at the Whittington Center where they had 5  categories: Modern. Traditional, Duellist, Blackpowder, and Senior. It was tough. But the awards there sure meant something. That's the other extreme. Reality needs to be somewhere in between.

[Calico Mary]

It's not meaningless when you put your heart and soul into learning something new and trying your best at it just because no one else bothered.....

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

36 minutes ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

They DID! And let me tell you it hurts.I shot modern for 10 years or so

Yep, that was a bummer, sorry ya got burned pard. I thought everything was fine, just needed FCGF Good Luck

[Grey Beard]

1 hour ago, Calico Mary said:

It's not meaningless when you put your heart and soul into learning something new and trying your best at it just because no one else bothered.....

+ 1

[Assassin]

4 hours ago, Calico Mary said:

you wanna get rid of some categories, how bout we start with yours.....

SASS did get rid of my category I shot modern for years, I've worked pretty hard to shoot better just like you. I'm not picking on you Mary, it's the system that is flawed. 

If SASS did decide to reduce the number of categories I would just pick another and go with the flow. I'm not dead set on anything. I have shot Frontiersman, Duelist, Frontier Cartridge, Modern, Traditional, 49r, and in another 1-1/2 years I plan on shooting in the Senior category.

 

We recognize all official categories at our matches and you are always welcome to shoot on my posse.

 

[Oklahoma Dee]

Interesting subject matter. 

 

After traveling outside my current state of residence, over the last 4 years, I have noted that two items are apparent in any successful match, be it small, medium or large, a monthly, an annual, from SASS State level to the SASS World Championships.  These will always pull me back to shoot again and I believe will pull most shooters back also.

 

1.  Great food for the shooters

1.  Great awards for the shooters

 

Call any award what you will, they are all participation awards.  No matter how many are in a category or the overall.

 

In my opinion, shooters vote with their entries and feet, based on positive word of mouth and these two in mind.

 

 

[Cowboy Junky]

I go for the shooting since it's a shooting sport. If the stages are good I'll have fun. The rest isn't a big deal for me. The problem with everyone getting an award is it gets so expensive everyone get a lesser award....... Kinda' like socialism.......lol

[Major Art Tillery]

16 minutes ago, Oklahoma Dee said:

Interesting subject matter. 

 

After traveling outside my current state of residence, over the last 4 years, I have noted that two items are apparent in any successful match, be it small, medium or large, a monthly, an annual, from SASS State level to the SASS World Championships.  These will always pull me back to shoot again and I believe will pull most shooters back also.

 

1.  Great food for the shooters

1.  Great awards for the shooters

 

Call any award what you will, they are all participation awards.  No matter how many are in a category or the overall.

 

In my opinion, shooters vote with their entries and feet, based on positive word of mouth and these two in mind.

 

 

+1

[Major Art Tillery]

Just now, Cowboy Junky said:

I go for the shooting since it's a shooting sport. If the stages are good I'll have fun. The rest isn't a big deal for me. The problem with everyone getting an award is it gets so expensive everyone get a lesser award....... Kinda' like socialism.......lol

+1