38/40 in a 45 Colt rifle

[Swift Stoney 49735]

Did you know a 38/40 will feed, chamber, shoot and eject out of a Model 66 rifle chambered in 45 Colt? I shot Wild Bunch recently and when I tumbled the brass I found two 38/40 casing in which the neck was badly deformed. I then got the 66 out and sure enough the 38/40s loaded right in the magazine, chambered and ejected without a bit of hesitation. I did not shoot them, just tested to see if they really would function. It must not be a really big deal because I had no idea when I was competing that two had gotten mixed in. 

 

Needless to say, I have carefully inspected my loaded 45 Colt ammo to insure that never happens again. I so rarely shoot the 38/40 I am frankly amazed at how they could have gotten mixed in with the 45s. One of life's mysteries and fortunately not a painful learning experience.

 

OK, you now have my permission to tell me all the caveats about reloading and storing ammo that I am supposed to already know. Given this "experience" a review might not be a bad idea for me.

[Three Foot Johnson]

I used to know a pard over Missoula way who had an *overabundance* of .44 mag brass, so he fireformed 'em or ran 'em through an expander die or whatever, and loaded 'em for Cowboy Action in his .45 Colt revolvers.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

To answer the only question that I found in the original post (OP)....... YES.   Essentially same rim diameter and case maximum diameter and similar OAL and .38-40 will fit loosely in the .45 Colt chamber, so  yep, it will fire if the extractor holds the case against the face of the bolt.

 

It fires, gives horrible accuracy but hardly any pressure build up because once the bullet pops out of case, smokeless powder pressure dies quickly.  No real danger except very small chance that leaving a loose bullet in the barrel could cause next bullet fired to jam in barrel, or that the case shreds and leaves a chunk stuck in chamber or barrel.   Ouch.

 

Could have been some other pard who fired the cases.   You can always blame the cases on another pard.  

 

But it sounds like you have almost owned up to making this mistake all by yourself.  So in that case, here's the obligatory advice:  "Only load one size of ammo at a time and carefully pack, store and retrieve from storage the ammo that properly fits the gun(s) you are taking to the range."    I like using different color boxes for my different cartridges and prominent labels on the boxes as well, because that helps reduce the chance I'll take the wrong ammo or add a few leftovers from a match into the wrong ammo box to "top it off."

 

Good luck, and glad no problems followed.  GJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Deadeye George]

I had a similar experience and will share what I did about it.  I shoot 44-40 in my rifle rifle and 45 Colt in my pistols and I learned two things early on:

1. Like your 38-40, the 44-40 cartridge can be fired through a 45 Colt pistol but will fireform the 44-40 case making it trash.  I actually loaded both 45  Colt chambered pistols with 44-40 rds once and while they all fired fine and I didn't notice anything until I tried to eject the rounds and had to trash all the ruined brass!

 

2. Having a 44-40 chambered 1873 model rifle I learned that I could load ten 45 Colt rounds in the tube and get the first round HALF WAY chambered before it gets jammed and having to be "dug out" , this happened twice but not since!

 

Knowing that these mishaps can occur I made a loading block to solve my problem and this is something you might wish to consider doing.  Below is one of my blocks, the holes are cut with tight tolerances which will not allow a 45 Colt rd to go into a 44-40 hole and won't allow a 44-40 rd to seat in a 45 Colt hole.  As you can see in the photo a 45 Colt rd won't begin to go into the 44-40 hole and the 44-40 rd won't set flush in the 45 Colt hole.

 

I don't rely on this as a crutch but it does work as a last reminder that I bring 10 pistol and 10 rifle rounds to the loading table!  Now if I can only remember to load the rounds from the two circles in the pistols!

 

 

 

 

 

[Bugler]

Conversly, a 45 Colt really messes things up when loaded in my 44-40.............have no idea where it came from as I do not shoot or reload anything in 45 Colt......That one cost big time!!

Bugler

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Be especially careful that any live rounds handed back to you do not end up in "important match" ammo.  Even if you DID jack one out.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Hollywood used to use the old Five in One blanks for Western movies. They would chamber in a 45 Colt revolver, 44-40 revolver, 38-40 revolver, 44-40 rifle and 38-40 rifle. There were no 45 Colt rifles.

 

44-40 and 38-40 share all the same major dimensions, 38-40 is just necked down further.

 

And just for the fun of it a number of years ago, at the end of a match I fired five rounds of 44-40 out of one of my 45 Colt revolvers. They shot just fine and all the bullets hit the targets.

[Noz]

Some who have .45 cal rifles that blow back badly have learned that 44-40 cases, fire formed in the rifle and loaded with 45 cal bullets, will seal the chamber and reduce blowback.  You can't tell that they are 44-40 unless you look at the head stamp.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

I loaned my 92 in .45 Colt to a feller and told him to load it from the RED box marked .45 colt ,,, He shot the stage handed off my rifle to me with the comment " Sweet running Rifle " and off he went to try fix his rifle ... He didn't wait for the brass to come, after unloading .

I noticed something ODD with the 10 rifle brass, so I dropped of his ten .38s at his cart ....  He had loaded 10 .44 special rounds from my BLUE box marked .44 Special .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Trailrider #896]

Texas Range George Lloyd inadvertently loaded a .45 Colt's round in his Winchester '73 chambered in .44-40, jamming the rifle! Fortunately, he was able to use his pocket knife to unscrew the sideplate screw and remove the plates, get the offending round out and reassemble the rifle,  Good thing he did as he was in the middle of a firefight with some Indians!   He did survive the fight.   Wonder if he traded his .45 in for a Frontier Six Shooter when they became available.

[Swift Stoney 49735]

I am just thankful I or no one else was in any real danger. Oddly enough the accuracy must have been somewhat sufficient as I shot the stage clean with some of the rifle target out at the 20 yard mark. I am amazed that I did not pick up on the 38/40 cartridges when loading the rifle. The necked case should have been a dead giveaway. Since I do very little Wild Bunch shooting I did not have loading blocks or ammo boxes for the 45 Colt cartridges. I now have enough boxes to transport 200 rounds of 45 Colt.

 

Thanks for all the stories, advice, and the admonishment from Garrison Joe. Pride not only goes before the fall but also before the gun blows up. No one is above safe operating systems when it comes to reloading, storing, transporting, and loading the equipment we use.