Question for moderators concerning transactions on the wire

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

So I engaged in a transaction (trade product for product) and have not gotten what i was promised, have been avoided on phone calls, email and text and probably lied to from the beginning. Are there guidelines on what I can or cannot place on the wire to attempt to encourage the other party to do what they said they would OR to help others from not being taken in by this apparent scam. I went into this transaction with full knowledge that it was possibly a scam so am i just out a few hundred bucks and a barrel of trust or can I post name, alias and other identifying info for the benefit of others and my own satisfaction. 

I tried to PM a moderator directly with these questions and was informed by the Wire i could not contact that person. I'll just put this here and accept your ruling.

Imis

I was wrong. I got the product today and it is exactly as advertised. Judi absolutely loves them.  I got impatient and mouthy and this may have damaged the reputation of the seller. If so I am sorry. I will do what I can to make it right to him. I would consider other transactions with this seller. I apologize to the readers that I mislead with my posts. 

 

Imis

[Kingair]

Hope all works out fine !

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

So Much For The Old Cowboy Way !

This is starting to happen more and more .

Good luck with your issue .

Rooster

[Carolina Reaper]

I just had this happen to me as well and to my dismay was informed it is against the bylaws to say anything negative on here so there is no recourse to being scammed. If you post something about the member or negative it will get hidden.

This is the bylaw quote I was given:

"The SASS Wire is not to be used for individuals to challenge vendors or ague their cases or conflicts. It is never to be used as a leveraging tool for any reason. Those are personal issues and not acceptable on the Wire.The SASS Wire is a solely owned entity of the Single Action Shooting Society. And as an entity of SASS,"

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

It's been awhile, but there is a non-SASS site that compiles transaction information from buyers and sellers, and is used to publicize unsuccessful deals and double-dealing.

 

I seem to have lost the link; maybe someone else can chime in.

 

LL

[Wolfgang, SASS #53480]

I got scammed once.   But have had so many excellent dealings on this wire.  It has averaged out Ok.  I kept an eye out for anyone doing business with the pard that scammed me. . . . would warn them ( via P. Message ) about him.  He finally disappeared.  

[Stone Devers]

Was this with an actual SASS member? Or a "guest" I've seen where people are scammed from guests that just show up, scam and run away.

If its a guest, maybe the forum, especially where people buy and sell be hidden from non SASS members. 

 

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

The person in question has a very recent SASS number and a club affiliation. Dont know how accurate they may be. I hope one of the moderaters will chime in at some point. And what the heck I dont have any points against me, mebbe I could use some.lol

Imis

[Hoss]

I know its against the rules to complain about wire transactions, but it seems to me if SASS allows classifieds, they ought to allow some recourse on the open wire as well.

 

That being said, I have bought, sold, traded, given away and been gifted too many items to count on the SASS wire, with never a problem.

[Smoken D]

I also recall some site we could rate dealings with pards good or bad. That was some years ago and don't recall that site address. As said no recourse on the wire, just PM other pards if you see a transaction going on with the fellow.

[Little Joe Dalton]

 I’ve been lucky Cowboys have always been some of the most honest people to deal with I’ve loaned guns out and everybody’s always been super hope we can maintain outstanding reputation with Cowboys  I personally have bought and sold  A lot of cowboy items on the wire I guess I’ve just been lucky if it’s too good to be true it’s too good to buy

[Tennessee williams]

The problem with posting negative feedback or complaints on a 3rd party site is that more than likely nobody on this one will ever see it. Id say as long as you dont call them a name or cuss them, youd be ok. People ask all the time how to get in touch with someone because you havent heard back from them. On a completely different topic, who was the last person you traded with?

[Grand Stan]

That is the risk involved with any online transaction. Thankfully and hopefully this forum and the members will be honest people. Yes, it may happen and sucks when it does but the ability to deal with and find the items that are pertinent to our “trade” is phenomenal. Yes, unfortunately there may be an issue from time to time. I am NEW by All reasonable accounts but not new to online selling. As an EBay seller for over 19 years I think I have seen it all. 99 percent honest people and may be 99.9 percent here on this site. 

[Johnny Dollar]

Its happened to me twice.    Both  times was not much money but I was still stuck.  There used to be a time that I trusted what people say on here but not so much now. And even though its even easier now to post photos, if there aren't any...  I run away. Not worth the time to ask for them.

Hope this works out for the best!

[Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904]

  How's about posting:

  "Attempt to locate Joe Blow who shoots with the "who knows" club from Armpit Wa.  We need to complete our transaction by you shipping the item now that I've paid for it"

[J. Frank Norfleet]

To add to what Mudflat Mike said, I assume you answered a posting here on the classifieds. Post on that ad "where's what I bought?" and keep posting it to keep it at the top. Folks that frequent here will notice. And if he ever offers another item for sale here again, I'd reply asking why he didn't fulfill his deal with you. Sure would warn off potential buyers.

JFN

[Canton Chris]

5 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

It's been awhile, but there is a non-SASS site that compiles transaction information from buyers and sellers, and is used to publicize unsuccessful deals and double-dealing.

 

I seem to have lost the link; maybe someone else can chime in.

 

LL

It’s over at castboolits.gunloads.com

they have a section called “Straight Shooters & Deadbeats” so if someone isn’t forthcoming in a transaction, they get called out & all members can see if someone they’re considering doing business with is listed. If they’re a straight shooter people give them kudos, which also helps!

[Captain Bill Burt]

Another option would be to go to Imis Twohofon's profile and take a look at this posts.  That's what I did.  I noticed a Classified post from back in July that I suspect is the one he's referring to.  Imis, I suggest you go back to that thread and post, asking when you'll get your holsters.

 

FYI, if that's the correct thread the Cowboy in question asked the moderators to delete the thread.  I hope that's a request that won't be granted.  I also suggest that when you make a deal in the Classifieds you quote the applicable post so that the OP can't delete the details later.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

42 minutes ago, clum553946 said:

It’s over at castboolits.gunloads.com

they have a section called “Straight Shooters & Deadbeats” so if someone isn’t forthcoming in a transaction, they get called out & all members can see if someone they’re considering doing business with is listed. If they’re a straight shooter people give them kudos, which also helps!

 

Thanks, Clum.

 

The link is:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?34-Straight-Shooters-amp-Deadbeats

 

LL

 

 

Well, now that I read some of the posts, I don't think this is the same list.  The list I was thinking of had all SASS folks.

 

LL

[Stone Devers]

WOW, clicking on that link and seeing all the "deadbeats" is very discouraging. 

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

6 hours ago, Mudflat Mike, SASS #20904 said:

  How's about posting:

  "Attempt to locate Joe Blow who shoots with the "who knows" club from Armpit Wa.  We need to complete our transaction by you shipping the item now that I've paid for it"

Sounds like a very good start !

Good Job Mike .

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

9 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

It's been awhile, but there is a non-SASS site that compiles transaction information from buyers and sellers, and is used to publicize unsuccessful deals and double-dealing.

 

I seem to have lost the link; maybe someone else can chime in.

 

LL

Seems that I remember a rating system that was kinda attached to the Classifieds some years back , but that was probably three or four server updates ago. No doubt all that info was lost.

Rex

[X Mark]

Just string him up !!!

[Sedalia Dave]

HAve you both filed a theft report with serial numbers to the PD in the area where you mailed your trades? Also have you files the same with ATF?

[High Rock Drifter]

16 hours ago, Stone Devers said:

WOW, clicking on that link and seeing all the "deadbeats" is very discouraging. 

 

When I click on that link I'm totally encouraged that the good guys far outweigh the bad. From what I could tell just from the subject lines there are 29 Deadbeats vs over 3,700 Straight Shooters (about 0.8% vs 99.2%), in addition some of the Straight Shooter posts have multiple good guys listed in them, one I looked at had a total of 89 folks listed so the total percentage of good guys is probably higher yet.

I've bought and sold multiple items here and they all were very smooth transactions, never a glitch.

This is just my opinion.

 

[Wild Willi]

I have never been out right cheated on the wire by another SASS member and I have been on here since the begining and ton tons of deals.  There may have been a time or two that the item I got may have not been in the condition I thought as pictures tend to make thing look better than they are but Sass members have always come through

WW

[Hoss]

Couple of years ago I bought a canvas belt, with the intentions of making a Wild bunch gun belt out of it. when it arrived, it was too wide for my holster to slide over it.  I was happy to take my lumps, was not the sellers fault. he asked how it worked so I told him it was no bueno for what I needed. He suggested rather than returning it, costing postage, he would refund 1/2 of what I paid, and I could try to find another use for the belt. seemed fair to me, and he mailed me a check. Several months later he contacted me, asked it I still had the belt, as he had a use for it. he then sent me the difference in cost, plus return shipping. In short, I think 99&44/100% of the cowboys on here will do the right thing. Very few "scammers"  Anything I have ever sold on the wire I have shipped prior to receiving payment, with the exception of a pair of pistols I sold once, and that was because the buyer was on and off over them for a couple of months, then sent me a note saying he wanted them and was sending payment. As it turns out, I received the check in a about 2 weeks. He was a good guy, just a little scattered!

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

On a Military Forum I had a M1 Carbine someone was looking for and he had a trade I wanted. I agreed to send my M1 to him and upon receiving he would ship his item. Alas, after 3 months and being ignored on phone and E-Mails in which I inquired were my item was. I filed a stolen firearm report over the phone with his local, and my local Police and State Police. I had my M1 Carbine back in 6 weeks. Happy to say the stolen firearm charge held and he went to jail. MT

I made beforehand copies of the original post, and further conversations, along with copies of ignored e-mails, and receipt shipping.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

If we don't know who the bad guys are, how can we avoid them?

It very much seems we mere SASS members are sitting ducks.

I not sure I like being a sitting duck.

 

Best

CR

 

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

I sure don't, but SASS doesn't care. I bought a rifle off the SASS wire that was a piece of crap. 3 different guys worked on it and none could make it work right.

SASS to me- "There's nothing WE can do about it".

Well, they could warn members about crooks. But, no....

[Johnny Dollar]

1 hour ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

I sure don't, but SASS doesn't care. I bought a rifle off the SASS wire that was a piece of crap. 3 different guys worked on it and none could make it work right.

SASS to me- "There's nothing WE can do about it".

Well, they could warn members about crooks. But, no....

 

How is this SASS’s problem?  Are you saying they should have reimbursed you on the cost you were out? I’m really not understanding what they could do. I also don’t know how they could pre-warn anyone if someone is a “crook” until after the fact.  

They have this posted in the fine print in the classified section:

 

“SASS in no way endorses or guarantees any information posted on this page.”

 

So basically it’s up to you to adhere to their warning  and buy things or move on.  

They give you a place to sell stuff... thats about it.  The rest is up to you.  

Like I said earlier.... I’ve been stiffed twice.  Both times it was because of a very big misrepresentation.  Wasn’t SASS that misrepresented it.   It was the seller in both instances.   And in both times neither seller offered to make it right.   I learned.... ask tons of questions and get lots of detailed photos.  

 

Even then you pay your money, you take your chances. 

[cowrustler]

One of the nice features about Gunbroker is the feedback for the particular seller which is posted with every listing. When you see a seller with several hundred positive feedbacks you have some confidence in dealing with them. If you find the seller has many negative feedbacks, you know the risk before you make a deal. But the feedback needs to be right along with the item posting; putting it off on a different site makes it worthless and unused. Could SASS look at Gunbroker's system and try to duplicate it?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

IMIS,

because this appears to be a 'gun' scam, there could be SERIOUS conciquences for this person involved.

You might want to make a contact with his local club and local Law agency.

 

Put the heat on him.

 

..........Widder

 

[Fireball #7709 Life]

3 hours ago, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said:

IMIS,

because this appears to be a 'gun' scam, there could be SERIOUS conciquences for this person involved.

You might want to make a contact with his local club and local Law agency.

 

Put the heat on him.

 

..........Widder

 

This^^^^^^

I was "almost" scammed on a gun deal.  Did the usual checks, pics looked good, etc.  sent the money.  no gun.  no more answering the phone.  It wasn't a lot of money and I almost wrote it off.  Just for grins, I Googled the police department local to the delivery, they sent an officer out ASAP.  Actually got my money back in the end and someone went to jail.(best way to stop these types)  The lesson I learned, ALWAYS follow up with the local PD. 

[captqueeze]

15 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

 

How is this SASS’s problem?  Are you saying they should have reimbursed you on the cost you were out? I’m really not understanding what they could do. I also don’t know how they could pre-warn anyone if someone is a “crook” until after the fact.  

They have this posted in the fine print in the classified section:

 

“SASS in no way endorses or guarantees any information posted on this page.”

 

So basically it’s up to you to adhere to their warning  and buy things or move on.  

They give you a place to sell stuff... thats about it.  The rest is up to you.  

Like I said earlier.... I’ve been stiffed twice.  Both times it was because of a very big misrepresentation.  Wasn’t SASS that misrepresented it.   It was the seller in both instances.   And in both times neither seller offered to make it right.   I learned.... ask tons of questions and get lots of detailed photos.  

 

Even then you pay your money, you take your chances. 

Mr Dollar;  I think what Sackett implied is that SASS could provide a valuable service assisting it's members with feedback about sellers and buyers(rating system) to alert if someone has had questionable dealings thus helping someone with online transaction(s).  He stated in so many words just that with his last sentence.