UPDATED: RESOLVED! Failure to Fire Issue .38 special

[Kingair]

Rookie question :

Anyway you can get rid of the safety ?

And get rid of that problem ?

 

Don't bother my post - below is the solution !

[Ron "Ironhead" Smith]

1 minute ago, Michael Ricochet said:

 

Exactly the problem! I don’t normally shoot that way.

ill post back once I talk to Long Hunter 

 

AND I’m on the hunt for a drop in replacement for this problem.

 

Try to find an old style fixed firing pin hammer, you will also need to replace the trigger. About a month ago I posted a detailed description of the problem in a another thread about that jacked up firing pin design.

[Michael Ricochet]

1 minute ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

 

Try to find an old style fixed firing pin hammer, you will also need to replace the trigger. About a month ago I posted a detailed description of the problem in a another thread about that jacked up firing pin design.

 

Purrfect! I’ll search for that thread - thank you!

 

[Red Cent]

 

 

Change hammers.

[Sedalia Dave]

Having never seen one but watching the video the solution seems simple.

1. Remove the hammer and the rod that actuates the firing pin.

2. Drop the actuator rod in the scrap metal bin.

3. Weld the firing pin in the proper position.

4.  Smooth and touch up the hammer as needed.

5. Reassemble and adjust as necessary.

6. Fire off a letter to Uberti and let them know what a POS their "most technologically advanced" design is.

 

No shooter that wants accuracy out of a firearm yanks back on a trigger. By design their system will fail when you properly squeeze the trigger.

 

[CodyMaverick]

 

15 minutes ago, Michael Ricochet said:

 

Exactly the problem! I don’t normally shoot that way.

ill post back once I talk to Long Hunter 

 

AND I’m on the hunt for a drop in replacement for this problem.

 

For liability reasons it would be unwise for anyone to defeat this safety component for you.  However; there a several well known gunsmiths that will eliminate the transfer bar in a Ruger for you.  If you ask around you may get some good suggestions on how you can do it yourself.  I would want something that would leave me the option of putting it back in case I wanted to sell or gift the gun to someone else.

 

replacing the hammer would be ideal but that may also require replacing the trigger, the hand, adjusting the timing, etc...

 

Just pondering, but I would look to see if I could remove the firing pin spring and the transfer bar and then put something (a ball bearing , maybe?) behind the pin that would keep it extended.

 

Keep us posted,  I'm sure many other owners of these pistols would like to remove this "feature"

[CodyMaverick]

5 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Having never seen one but watching the video the solution seems simple.

1. Remove the hammer and the rod that actuates the firing pin.

2. Drop the actuator rod in the scrap metal bin.

3. Weld the firing pin in the proper position.

4.  Smooth and touch up the hammer as needed.

5. Reassemble and adjust as necessary.

6. Fire off a letter to Uberti and let them know what a POS their "most technologically advanced" design is.

 

No shooter that wants accuracy out of a firearm yanks back on a trigger. By design their system will fail when you properly squeeze the trigger.

 

 

This is a good idea for the most part,  I would get a replacement hammer first and modify that one so I could return the gun to it's original configuration later if I wanted to.  Keep all of the original parts!

[Ron "Ironhead" Smith]

23 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

6. Fire off a letter to Uberti and let them know what a POS their "most technologically advanced" design is.

 

No shooter that wants accuracy out of a firearm yanks back on a trigger. By design their system will fail when you properly squeeze the trigger.

 

 

Won't do any good, this is literally a lawyer safety ordered by the court. I suppose they could go to a Ruger type transfer bar.

[Sedalia Dave]

27 minutes ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

 

Won't do any good, this is literally a lawyer safety ordered by the court. I suppose they could go to a Ruger type transfer bar.

If people don't complain they will never fix their design. They don't have to abandon it just make it work 100% of the time.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

This model with the retractable firing pin is so new to the market that there has not been much written about them, except for advertising from Uberti.

 

Yours is the first report I have heard about this model from a user.

 

Thanks for bringing the issue up front. It will be interesting to see if there are many more complaints.

[Michael Ricochet]

Here is another thread. People started having issues end of Aug:

 

 

 

[Straight Stock]

If it were me, I'd replace the entire gun. By the time you go through the hassle of replacing this part, that part, you're half way into the cost of another gun. Something about throwing good money after bad money comes to mind...

 

Perhaps that particular gun/design is more suitable to casual plinking at the range, but seems like a speedbump in the fast paced SASS games we play. As pointed out earlier, sounds like it can only be fired with 2 hands; I wouldnt like that personally. I like Uberti products but this one is a sour note...

 

Anywhoo, you probably didnt really want to hear that, but before you get too attached to the gun...perhaps its just best to flip it for something else without that hammer design.

[Ron "Ironhead" Smith]

8 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

If people don't complain they will never fix their design. They don't have to abandon it just make it work 100% of the time.

True but I don't think this particular design can be fixed well enough for this game.

[Hollywood]

I'm very interested to hear what Long Hunter says about this issue.  Unfortunately manufacturers have to design and fabricate guns for the "lowest common denominator" folks who load all 6 chambers and then drop their guns and shoot themselves or another.  (I think that this used to be called "a little chlorine in the gene pool", but now that is not politically correct...). 

 

With too many attorneys in our run amok legal system, these "enhanced safety systems" appear to be the wave of the future.  Now we have to figure out, for our style of shooting:

 

1)  Can they be made to be reliable?

2)  Will there continue to be a supply of replacement parts for the expensive retrofit of floating firing pin hammers/triggers?

3)  Will gunsmiths continue to perform such modifications due to potential liability issues?

4)  Do we just make sure to buy all of our pistols now while we can still get fixed hammer mounted firing pins?

5)  Will we all just have to switch to Ruger New Vaqueros, which have the "saftey" lockwork that has obviously been better designed for robust performance?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Use low-temp silver solder. Solder that safety rod while fully engaging the FP, from the bottom of the hammer.

OLG

 

 

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

On 10/13/2017 at 3:50 PM, Michael Ricochet said:

EDIT: Resolved the issue by holding down the trigger while I slip hammer. Every round fired during my match today. However this is just a work-around yes?

The real problem lies in the Uberti Cattleman II "retractable firing pin" mechanism as described in the video down several posts by Cody Maverick. I have shot competition handguns in the past and believe that pulling the trigger back all the way and keeping it there would not be a very accurate way to shoot for precision, which is what the competitions that I have shot required. So to me this is all wrong, just my opinion. However because our CAS targets are close, slip firing worked just fine for me today.

 

Does anyone know if there are links/posts on this forum on how to remedy this "retractable firing pin" issue?

 

Best wises and thank you for all the replies!

Ricochet

 

ORIGINAL POST: =====================================================

 

Howdy Pards!

 

Well I just got a pistol from Long Hunter  and took it out for a shoot. It is a brand new Taylor's Short Stroke Smoke Wagon in .357 and I'm getting FTF with little or no primer strikes on my hand loaded ammunition (no problems at all with my S&W .357 mag using the same ammunition). The ammunition is brand new PMC nickel plated .38 special brass with Federal 100 primers. I also tried some once fired Winchester .38 special brass with the same results. Here is what I did/know so far with questions afterwards:

 

I did a visual and yep those primers are pushed in all the way - perhaps too far? They are definitely below the level of the case head. I am using an RCBS hand priming tool.

So I took a piece of new PMC brass and seated a primer flush. Sure enough - BANG! (I am detonating the primer in a towel so as not to scare the neighbors. I can fart louder.)

However, now the primer sticks out beyond the case head and there is trouble turning the cylinder/cocking the next round. Bad.

So I try seating it a little deeper. Hmm, does not want to go bang on the first try however three tries later and BANG!

The primer still sticks out a bit.

So I tried this same process with some once fired Winchester brass with the exact same results. When I can get it to go BANG, I cannot rotate the cylinder.

 

This is a brand new gun from Long Hunter (I tried to call them however they are closed today so I will contact them on Monday).

I was hoping that it would be a dreamy experience however its not. Perhaps I should not try this on a Friday the 13th? I'm not superstitious (yet).

I was hoping it was the PMC brass however it appears not to be.

 

The box the beautiful pistol came in has two extra parts in there - likely the stuff that Long Hunter replaced. A big long flat "spring" and some weird looking piece of metal with a round hole on one end and a slot on the other, about 1.5" long.

 

I am guessing that if I replace the spring that is in the gun with the one in the box that I will be able to fire the primers that are seated deep. However, I am also guessing that my trigger pull will be a lot firmer. But that is OK as my very first CAS match is tomorrow morning and I would like to shoot this gun in the match.

 

Suggestions?

 

Thanks pards!

Ricochet

I think you should return the guns as not suitable for cowboy action shooting.  Having to pull the trigger to the rear, while you slip hammer is not a viable solution.  Maybe Long Hunter's Company can somehow modify the guns so this is not necessary.  Every single Ruger we own and there are many no longer have a transfer bar.

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Use low-temp silver solder. Solder that safety rod while fully engaging the FP, from the bottom of the hammer.

OLG

 

 

 

That would work. But I think the better option would be to just epoxy it then cut off the trigger end and the lifting tab off the trigger too.

That's sorta what I did for the Beretta Stampedes.

 

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

13 hours ago, Michael Ricochet said:

Here is another thread. People started having issues end of Aug:

 

 

 

 

This is what I had posted there;

 

Quote

The Rugers are the most rugged single action used for the game. But, the lock works is nothing like the Colt or colt Clones. The Colt and clones are based on a design dating back to the 1830's.

Even with the upgrades if run hard they don't last as well as the Rugers. But, history has shown the Clones with the add-on liability parts tend to be even worse for the long haul. The "D" cam uberti's, the Beretta Stampedes, the Taurus Gauchos, and farth back the Hammerli with the safet on the hammers.  All of these were pledged with small add-on parts problems. The Colt style lock is rugged for it's age but when you add those tiny liability parts they tend to prematurely fail. Of the clones the ones with the two position base pin are the most rugged. Not much to go wrong with it.

 

I'm not impressed with this new Uberti.

 

Nothing new here.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said:

 

That would work. But I think the better option would be to just epoxy it then cut off the trigger end and the lifting tab off the trigger too.

That's sorta what I did for the Beretta Stampedes.

 

 Nate-TNX for the picture!

Doesn't the OP's guns have a hammer mounted FP?

Even then, you could JB epoxy the long safety shaft inside the hammer to hold the FP in it's extended firing position, couldn't you??

OLG

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

Yep, that's pretty much what I meant

[Cactus Jack Calder]

1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 Nate-TNX for the picture!

Doesn't the OP's guns have a hammer mounted FP?

Even then, you could JB epoxy the long safety shaft inside the hammer to hold the FP in it's extended firing position, couldn't you??

OLG

 

OLG,

What I am reading here is:

'Push the long safety shaft up into the hammer so that it pushes the firing pin out to the firing position and then JB Weld it up in that position.'

Questions I have:

Would the JB Weld hold up over the long haul? Can the JB Weld be removed if I decide to sell the pistols?

Why would it be necessary to remove the spur on the hammer (that lifts the long safety shaft) if the shaft is already lifted and held in place?

There was a mention of hammer wobble in the other thread tied into this thread. Is that a real concern or not?

If so would it be necessary to JB Weld the hammer straight?  Could the JB Weld withstand that duty?

 

By the way, those little tiny screws that hold in the Hand Follower Spring are a tough (B) item to get back in place, even with a magnetized screwdriver.

 

Thanks,

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

JB is a second choice. Low-temp silver solder is my first choice, and what I would use. This is a permanent modification.

Use shims on each  side of the hammer to reduce wobble.

OLG

 

[Cactus Jack Calder]

Thanks for the insight.

I have purchased a 4.75” SmokeWagon and a 5.5” Cattleman in 38/357.

Have replaced the main spring and trigger/bolt spring in the Cattleman with a Wolff spring set.

I shot the Cattleman with the original main earlier and it worked okay. I will see how it does with the new set.

I was not up to date on the hammer safety system.

 

Thanks again.

[Red Cent]

It seems it would be rather easy to drill and place one/two pins in hammer/firing pin in firing position.

Weld or drill will negate the 6 round thing safely.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 minutes ago, Red Cent said:

Weld or drill will negate the 6 round thing safely.

Not really-

Lower the hammer in between two cartridges, and you're GTG w/6 rnds loaded. 

OLG

[Michael Ricochet]

Well I just spoke with Jared at Long Hunter who apologized several times for the problem. Jared said that they will replace the trigger and trigger bar and ensure that the gun is firing correctly before sending it back. So great customer service!

 

I asked about putting in the old style hammers and triggers and he said that Uberti is not selling them anymore and that won't be an option. He said that is what they had been doing in the past however they can no longer get the hammers. He also said that when setup correctly there should not be any FTF issues.

 

Ricochet 

 

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

2 hours ago, Michael Ricochet said:

He also said that when setup correctly there should not be any FTF issues.

 

Ricochet 

 

Howdy Ricochet, what about having to depress the trigger all the way back before it will fire?? Any word on that?? Thanks for the updates....Good Luck

[Michael Ricochet]

21 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

Howdy Ricochet, what about having to depress the trigger all the way back before it will fire?? Any word on that?? Thanks for the updates....Good Luck

 

Jared said that a "normal" trigger pull is all that is needed. He completely understood the issue. You will not have to "depress the trigger all the way back" in order for it to fire.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

PLZ keep us updated.

I would send both of the guns in(if you have 2)and get'em corrected.

OLG

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

I know someone else with the same problem, so we are looking forward to see what the correction is that he will do and how they function once you get them back.

[Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485]

If it was my gun I think I'd just remove the push rod and make a new firing pin about a 1/4 inch longer on the back side ( or whatever the diameter of the push rod is).

[Shifty Bob]

I gave not purchased my first SA pistol yet. I was considering a Taylor's smoke waggon or running iron pistol. Reading this thread it sounds like the type firing pin used on these pistols my be an issue. Should I consider a ruger instead?

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

11 minutes ago, Shifty Bob said:

I gave not purchased my first SA pistol yet. I was considering a Taylor's smoke waggon or running iron pistol. Reading this thread it sounds like the type firing pin used on these pistols my be an issue. Should I consider a ruger instead?

Yes

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

19 minutes ago, Shifty Bob said:

I gave not purchased my first SA pistol yet. I was considering a Taylor's smoke waggon or running iron pistol. Reading this thread it sounds like the type firing pin used on these pistols my be an issue. Should I consider a ruger instead?

By all means yes.

[Michael Ricochet]

40 minutes ago, Shifty Bob said:

I gave not purchased my first SA pistol yet. I was considering a Taylor's smoke waggon or running iron pistol. Reading this thread it sounds like the type firing pin used on these pistols my be an issue. Should I consider a ruger instead?

 

 

Lots of Ruger fans on the Wire....