Duelist Question

[Sgt. Saywut]

Is it acceptable to shoot Duelist with one pistol in a strong side holster, and the second pistol in a different caliber in a shoulder holster?  Logistics aside, I’m wondering if that would be allowed, as long as proper safety was observed. 

[John Henry Quick]

I could be wrong, but I don't think shoulder holsters are allowed in any category.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Yes it is acceptable.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

15 minutes ago, John Henry Quick said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think shoulder holsters are allowed in any category.

 

Yes...you are.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

PWB,

did you get my recent PM's (about 3 weeks ago) to you?

 

..........Widder

 

[Goody, SASS #26190]

So long as they are different side s of your body.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

No requirement that both pistols must be in the same caliber.

 

Shoulder holster must be worn on the opposite side of the body from the normal belt holster.

 

Bottom line is, shoulder holsters have to follow the same rule as other holsters. May not depart from the vertical by more than 30 degrees when worn.

 

Also, since you are going to be likely drawing from the shoulder holster cross draw style (it's pretty difficult to do it any other way) you have to obey the Crossdraw Covenant (I just made that up) of not sweeping anybody when you pull from the shoulder holster. (Notice I did not say anything about dancing)

 

Bottom line is, because of all these issues, very few shooters use a cross draw holster. I can't remember the last time I saw one.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Texas Ghost shoots one in CC, and does so very well. He has a 3 1/2 inch Vaquero in it. Draws right handed, then holsters with left as he turns 90 degrees from the line, right hand on the strong side and drawing as he turns back to the line.

[John Henry Quick]

8 hours ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Is it acceptable to shoot Duelist with one pistol in a strong side holster, and the second pistol in a different caliber in a shoulder holster?  Logistics aside, I’m wondering if that would be allowed, as long as proper safety was observed. 

 

8 hours ago, John Henry Quick said:

I could be wrong, but I don't think shoulder holsters are allowed in any category.

 

Sorry - if I lead you astray, even if only momentarily - the others gave the right answer quickly enough.  I was probably thinking of USPSA rules where they are not legal and I spouted off much too quickly.

 

[Sgt. Saywut]

Does anyone have any Youtube links showing proper CAS usage of a shoulder holster?  My search foo is weak in this regard. 

[Griff]

8 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Howdy

 

No requirement that both pistols must be in the same caliber.

 

Shoulder holster must be worn on the opposite side of the body from the normal belt holster.

 

Bottom line is, shoulder holsters have to follow the same rule as other holsters. May not depart from the vertical by more than 30 degrees when worn.

 

Also, since you are going to be likely drawing from the shoulder holster cross draw style (it's pretty difficult to do it any other way) you have to obey the Crossdraw Covenant (I just made that up) of not sweeping anybody when you pull from the shoulder holster. (Notice I did not say anything about dancing)

 

Bottom line is, because of all these issues, very few shooters use a cross draw shoulder holster. I can't remember the last time I saw one.

Fixed that for ya.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

3 hours ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Does anyone have any Youtube links showing proper CAS usage of a shoulder holster?  My search foo is weak in this regard. 

That in itself should tell you volumes.  

 

 

[Sgt. Saywut]

1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

That in itself should tell you volumes.  

 

 

 

Meh.  I want to be different, even if it means coming in last in a match     Maybe someone has a video of Texas Ghost using a shoulder holster in competition?

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

38 minutes ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Meh.  I want to be different, even if it means coming in last in a match     Maybe someone has a video of Texas Ghost using a shoulder holster in competition?

 

With all due respect, I am assuming you are fairly new. Have you attended many matches yet?

 

Perhaps you should consider going a more traditional route until you get the feel of what a match is like.

[evil dogooder]

Boulder canyon bob uses one very well

[Sgt. Saywut]

16 minutes ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

With all due respect, I am assuming you are fairly new. Have you attended many matches yet?

 

Perhaps you should consider going a more traditional route until you get the feel of what a match is like.

 

No offense taken - I am indeed new.  I’ve attended four or five local matches and the state championship, and will attend the regional championship on Saturday.    I have a sense of what’s involved, though of course it won’t be the same as actually taking part.   I intend to start out as gunfighter, which I know will be difficult in some respects.   But I’m willing to give it a try, if for no other reason than to be different.   Many folks I see taking part follow a general pattern of two-handed shooting of Vaqueros, and use an 1873 and a SxS, and I know they do so because among other reasons, it’s fast, efficient, and safe.  Of course, there are a lot of exceptions, but I want to go off the beaten path in a careful and safe manner,  knowing full well I’ll probably suck 

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

6 minutes ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

 

No offense taken - I am indeed new.  I’ve attended four or five local matches and the state championship, and will attend the regional championship on Saturday.    I have a sense of what’s involved, though of course it won’t be the same as actually taking part.   I intend to start out as gunfighter, which I know will be difficult in some respects.   But I’m willing to give it a try, if for no other reason than to be different.   Many folks I see taking part follow a general pattern of two-handed shooting of Vaqueros, and use an 1873 and a SxS, and I know they do so because among other reasons, it’s fast, efficient, and safe.  Of course, there are a lot of exceptions, but I want to go off the beaten path in a careful and safe manner,  knowing full well I’ll probably suck 

 

 

 

When you first start out things are unfamiliar and you are nervous.  Sometimes it is better to start out with the "simple" stuff first.

[Sgt. Saywut]

21 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

 

When you first start out things are unfamiliar and you are nervous.  Sometimes it is better to start out with the "simple" stuff first.

 

Understood.   Btw, I got the email notice about your response;  I was asking about a shoulder holster and shooting duelist because there’s an excellent deal locally that includes a NIB SH.   I was curious what the rules were, and I appreciate everyone’s input. 

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

I know somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can shoot gunfighter with a shoulder holster.

 

Same reason you can't do it with a cross draw.

 

You have to be able to draw both guns at the same time and not break the 170.

 

Impossible to do with a cross draw, unless you can perfect the technique (I forget what it's called) where you pull the gun butt first with the hand on that side, and rotate it as it comes out of the holster. Somebody help me with what that's called.

 

Would be well nigh impossible with a shoulder holster to draw standing facing forward without breaking the 170.

 

I think.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

7 minutes ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

I know somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can shoot gunfighter with a shoulder holster.

 

Same reason you can't do it with a cross draw.

 

You have to be able to draw both guns at the same time and not break the 170.

 

Impossible to do with a cross draw, unless you can perfect the technique (I forget what it's called) where you pull the gun butt first with the hand on that side, and rotate it as it comes out of the holster. Somebody help me with what that's called.

 

Would be well nigh impossible with a shoulder holster to draw standing facing forward without breaking the 170.

 

I think.

You actually could, although it would be cumbersome. Well, you could shoot the gunfighter category as it allows for double duelist. Your other holster would need to be a cross draw since you must engage 5 shots with each hand.

 

And you're thinking of the Cavalry Twist.

 

[Sgt. Saywut]

I think I need to clarify my comments in this thread - sorry for the confusion, folks.   I plan to shoot gunfighter style with a strong side holster on each side.   But I came across a WTS ad, with an excellent price tag, that included a shoulder holster as part of the package.   I got to thinking, “Hmmm, that SH would be interesting.  I think you can use one if you shoot duelist with one strong side holster opposite, but I better ask on the Wire.”   Then the discussion just kind of got convoluted 

[Goody, SASS #26190]

1 minute ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

  Then the discussion just kind of got convoluted 

 

Just the normal progression around here, called thread drift!

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

4 minutes ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

thread drift!

 

Hey! Are you accusing me of drifting?

 

Yeah, Cavalry Twist.

 

The old gray matter couldn't remember.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

6 hours ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Does anyone have any Youtube links showing proper CAS usage of a shoulder holster?  My search foo is weak in this regard. 

 

I have some demo videos using various types of shoulder/huckleberry rigs that I made at the same time as the Cav/twist draw vids that are on my YouTube channel.

I'll have to see if can find where I archived them.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

15 hours ago, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said:

PWB,

did you get my recent PM's (about 3 weeks ago) to you?

 

..........Widder

 

 

NO...my inbox had been full for some time prior to my last hospital visit (about 3 weeks ago)...I cleared it out when I got back to the Wolf Den (on staycation instead of attending the NW Regional).

You should have received a "kickback/failure to deliver" notification if they didn't go through.

Try sending them again.

[Tall Tale Todd]

13 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

I have some demo videos using various types of shoulder/huckleberry rigs that I made at the same time as the Cav/twist draw vids that are on my YouTube channel.

I'll have to see if can find where I archived them.

 

I would be interested in seeing those as well. 

[evil dogooder]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

 

No offense taken - I am indeed new.  I’ve attended four or five local matches and the state championship, and will attend the regional championship on Saturday.    I have a sense of what’s involved, though of course it won’t be the same as actually taking part.   I intend to start out as gunfighter, which I know will be difficult in some respects.   But I’m willing to give it a try, if for no other reason than to be different.   Many folks I see taking part follow a general pattern of two-handed shooting of Vaqueros, and use an 1873 and a SxS, and I know they do so because among other reasons, it’s fast, efficient, and safe.  Of course, there are a lot of exceptions, but I want to go off the beaten path in a careful and safe manner,  knowing full well I’ll probably suck 

 

 

Don't hold back.  If you want to shoot gf right off the bat go for it. I did the same  just remember you can't use shoulder rigs as a gf.   There is absolutely no way to get better at shooting gf than actually shooting it.    

 

Some say shoot duelist first.  All that accomplishes is to teach you how to shoot duelist.  

[evil dogooder]

2 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

I know somebody will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can shoot gunfighter with a shoulder holster.

 

Same reason you can't do it with a cross draw.

 

You have to be able to draw both guns at the same time and not break the 170.

 

Impossible to do with a cross draw, unless you can perfect the technique (I forget what it's called) where you pull the gun butt first with the hand on that side, and rotate it as it comes out of the holster. Somebody help me with what that's called.

 

Would be well nigh impossible with a shoulder holster to draw standing facing forward without breaking the 170.

 

I think.

Actually it isn't any harder to do it with a an your hands are just higher up a lot depends on the style of holster.  

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

3 hours ago, evil dogooder said:

Don't hold back.  If you want to shoot gf right off the bat go for it. I did the same  just remember you can't use shoulder rigs as a gf.   There is absolutely no way to get better at shooting gf than actually shooting it.    

 

Some say shoot duelist first.  All that accomplishes is to teach you how to shoot duelist.  

I agree with you. I shot my first match traditional at first and switched over to duelist since it felt weird for me to be holding a single action with two hands. I shot my next match gunfighter and haven't looked back. Just make sure to practice a lot so that you feel comfortable with a gun in each hand, not because it looks cool (which it totally does).

[Sgt. Saywut]

Reviving this because I’m picking up a 3.5” barreled Schofield that comes with an El Paso shoulder holster.  I know, SH’s are bad, terrible, and horrible, and no one uses them because they’re awkward, etc.   Having stipulated to all this, how about those videos?  I couldn’t find either Texas Ghost or Boulder Bob on Youtube.  I wonder if PWB ever found those videos of his?  

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

12 hours ago, Sgt. Saywut said:

Reviving this because I’m picking up a 3.5” barreled Schofield that comes with an El Paso shoulder holster.  I know, SH’s are bad, terrible, and horrible, and no one uses them because they’re awkward, etc.   Having stipulated to all this, how about those videos?  I couldn’t find either Texas Ghost or Boulder Bob on Youtube.  I wonder if PWB ever found those videos of his?  

 

Been looking for the original videos...no luck so far...probably on the hard drive of my desktop unit that crashed & burned a couple years ago.
Will check with my videographer re which camera was used. 
Apparently the shoulder rig vids were never downloaded to YouTube.

IIRC, some SHs require considerable contortionistic flexibility (or facing UPrange) to avoid breaking the 170 in use; particularly those with cylinder-spring retention.

Simple "pouch" versions worn well below the armpit are the easiest to safely use (similar to any crossdraw rig) without putting one's wrist or elbow out of joint.

[Sgt. Saywut]

Thanks for looking, PWB.  I appreciate it.  I’ll practice drawing a triply checked Schofield from the SH with Ginny Hinny watching to see if I break the 170 or am otherwise unsafe during the maneuver.   I’d like to go against the grain but not at the expense of safety. 

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

Sarge, I appreciate a rebel, an independent thinker...thats why I shot a 97 for 15 years. you might have Ms Hinny video you as you practice with the SH. It might reveal some weak points or other details yall may miss in real time. Cost--- nuttin. Benefit---possibly huge. Thats where i found several seconds on SG reloads.

 

 

Imis

[Sgt. Saywut]

5 hours ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Sarge, I appreciate a rebel, an independent thinker...thats why I shot a 97 for 15 years. you might have Ms Hinny video you as you practice with the SH. It might reveal some weak points or other details yall may miss in real time. Cost--- nuttin. Benefit---possibly huge. Thats where i found several seconds on SG reloads.

 

 

Imis

 

Imis, thanks for the tip about the video!   I think I’ll try laying out a couple lines on the ground delineating the 170 boundary, and have Ginny film me drawing at the junction of the lines.  Can’t hurt to try that. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

If you want to be different, then you should use guns like these...

 

'

 

This is about as different as I can get at times.