Sharps Rifle vs. Remington rolling block

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Interested to know what advantage either had in the buffalo hunting era. 

I would guess the Sharps had the advantage of a more solid receiver, but apparently the 

Creedmoor was plenty tough. 

[Sedalia Dave]

Which Sharps action are you referring to?

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

Falling block .45/70   1873

[CurlyDrew42]

The Sharps from Quigley Down Under? 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Advantage goes to Sharps in the longer cartridges(off-set hammer).

Also, the Sharps is easier to maintain and clean.

Sharps can be built with a double set trigger.

OLG

 

[Dark Horse Charlie]

I'm a fan if the Sharp's. Simpler mechanism, better looking and it had a movie made about it!

[Sedalia Dave]

Found this interesting tidbit over on BPCR.net

 

Tech Tips from Cameron

Quote

We covered breechblock preventative maintenance, in the first stab at this. It would be appropriate to touch down on a critical safety issue that relates to the condition of your breechblock, and the importance of having that firing pin gliding in its recess on a cushion of quality lubricant.

I don’t have a dictionary of firearms related terms in front of me, so will “Wing It” ……….. and give a quick thumbnail sketch of the term “Slamfire” …….. Most commonly associated with an accidental discharge generated by the firing pin being in a forward position as an arm locks into battery. And with a few well executed and notable exceptions, slamfire can take place across the whole spectrum of modern action types, when they are allowed to fall into a condition of poor maintenance.

One vintage classic action can be a real offender, as regards this phenomenon. I’m sure, or at least I would hope, that a lot of the readership will have already guessed where I’m going with this. You guessed it! ........ The Remington pattern Rolling Block action.

As this pattern evolved into it’s many variants, some great retractor designs, up to and including one that incorporated a gas vent, (e.g. the “Gustaf” Swede) were applied. Alas, many models had a primitive setup, and no provision for retraction incorporated at all. As well, “Swap Meet Specials”, “Barn Jobs”, and “Parts Guns”, assembled from a host of basically symmetrical parts can fail in this area as well. I actually saw one that had been fitted with “custom double set triggers”, and sold for a substantial price …….. that had a BALL POINT PEN SPRING shoved up in the recess; binding up a very poorly executed 2 piece firing pin, which was fitted into a misaligned recess in a rimfire block “conversion”. Sure enough, this was complimented with an overly powerful lever lock spring, which, after the initial “push” to close the action on a cartridge, slammed it shut violently. When I explained the situation to the fella that had purchased this “customized action”, to build the rifle of his dreams on, he was justifiably rather irate about the whole deal. He’s a fine metal smith, and a builder of beautiful muzzleloading target rifles. Once he was aware of the problems, he was able to rectify this embarrassing state of affairs, and defeat preliminary shabby and irresponsible workmanship.

The bottom line to this is that a bound up firing pin, in an unholy alliance with an overly enthusiastic lever lock spring can, and most certainly WILL, generate the great granddaddy of all slamfires, in a rolling block. At that unfortunate point, the only component holding the action in battery is the shooter’s THUMB. This will, at best, be broken / dis-located, maybe worse. The cartridge will be driven out of the chamber with the full firing impulse behind it. Gas and hot particles will accompany the cartridge case in its violent journey.

If this is discomforting you, and conjuring up all sorts of gruesome potential consequences to this scenario, I apologize for that. At the same time I can rest assured that I have accomplished my objective in writing this up. Be extra careful in setting up and operating the old rollers ……. they can bite.

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I had no problem out shooting the Sharps rifles .

With my Pedersoli Rolling block .

Just sayin 

Rooster 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 minute ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I had no problem out shooting the Sharps rifles .

With my Pedersoli Rolling block .

Just sayin 

Rooster 

 

So no one fired their Sharps then.........

OLG

[Dustin Checotah]

3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Advantage goes to Sharps in the longer cartridges(off-set hammer).

Also, the Sharps is easier to maintain and clean.

Sharps can be built with a double set trigger.

OLG

 

So can Rolling Blocks

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

3 hours ago, CurlyDrew42 said:

The Sharps from Quigley Down Under? 

 

Well, sorta, I believe he had a 50/90. I could be wrong about that. But I think it was a 73 model

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

3 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Found this interesting tidbit over on BPCR.net

 

Tech Tips from Cameron

 

Thanks Dave. I found this very interesting. 

 

I have neither a large caliber rolling block nor Sharps, but my grandfather gave a Remington  #4 .22 caliber Rolling block rifle. I still have it, but do not shoot it due to 

the age of the rifle. 

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

2 hours ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

Thanks Dave. I found this very interesting. 

 

I have neither a large caliber rolling block nor Sharps, but my grandfather gave a Remington  #4 .22 caliber Rolling block rifle. I still have it, but do not shoot it due to 

the age of the rifle. 

 

BMC, since when does "age" stop us from shooting....? 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

11 hours ago, Dustin Checotah said:

So can Rolling Blocks

 

The RB was not credited with a DST in mind. It was a major modification.

You see far more Sharps' and Hepburn's etc with DST.

OLG

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

8 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

BMC, since when does "age" stop us from shooting....? 

We get some blow back around the block when shooting .22 shorts. 

The thing is a killer, but I do not want to damage it or myself. 

[Knarley Bob]

14 hours ago, Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172 said:

Well, sorta, I believe he had a 50/90. I could be wrong about that. But I think it was a 73 model

45/110 with a 540 gr PP boolit............Most have a 30" barrel, this one has an extra 4" "It's marked up to 1200 yards, this one shoots a might further"

"Bout there 'll do............."

Knarely

[Trailrider #896]

Although it was stated that the Rolling Block was limited in the length of cartridges it could use, that really depended on how high and the angle of the hammer spur.  The Rolling Block action, with more modern steels was capable of handling some of the smokeless powder rounds, including the 7x57mm Mauser.  The disadvantage of the Rolling Block design was that, IF the firing pin jammed in the forward position, it COULD create a slam-fire with the breech unlocked!  In addition, in the event of a misfire, re-cocking the hammer left the breech unlocked!  In general, I found the hammer-fall of the rolling block was somewhat less than a Sharps. OTOH, the centrally-hung hammer flipped up into the field of view.

 

The Sharps side-hammer did not interfere with sighting "follow-through".  OTOH, the firing pin of the Sharps side-hammers was a strange piece that dog-legged through the breechblock. A broken firing pin on a Sharps required complete replacement by a similar part. The rolling block firing pin could be fabricated fairly easily by any gunsmith with a lathe. 

[Lead Monger]

Then there's all those Buffalow that got blasted by the 50-70 fired from the trap door.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

15 hours ago, Lead Monger said:

Then there's all those Buffalow that got blasted by the 50-70 fired from the trap door.

Or those took with .44RF from Henry's and '66's.

 

Or buffalo lances, spears, bows and arrows.

 

Or just stampeded off of a cliff.

[Trailrider #896]

17 hours ago, Lead Monger said:

Then there's all those Buffalow that got blasted by the 50-70 fired from the trap door.

Probably mostly, although the .44-77 was also popular In the Sharps. The ,50-70 was also an issue piece to the cavalry for a few years (1870-74) in the Sharps Carbine.  Plenty of .50-70 ammo around the various posts even after the .45 caliber Trapdoors were issued around 1874.  Since the Army only allowed 3 rounds per man per month for target practice and foraging, some of the posts kept a few of the ,50-70 Sharps and .50-70 Springfield's (Sharps for cavalry, Springfield's for infantry) for arming their teamsters, packers, etc., as well as to allow the troops to supplement their rations by hunting.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Either are fine rifles.

[Dustin Checotah]

On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 10:45 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

The RB was not credited with a DST in mind. It was a major modification.

You see far more Sharps' and Hepburn's etc with DST.

OLG

I understand that they were not made with them but Double set triggers are available. I have a New York State militia Roller in .50 U. It has about a 20 lb. trigger pull. Ok maybe not that bad that I wish had a double set trigger or even a single set. I believe the guy from Lone Star made DSTs for rollers but he is gone and I don't really want to do that drastic of a modification to get a lighter trigger.

Dustin

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

My Navy Arms RB (Pedersoli), is chambered in 50-140. To do this, the hammer and block was relieved at the top. The gun was marked 50 Sharps and was advertised as 50-90. When I got it, it turned out to be 50-140. Loaded cartridge is 4" long.

Horace