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.38spl Length in a 1892 Clone


Rube Burrows

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Hello, I am wondering what kind of overall lengths people are loading up for the 1892 clones. I have a few 92s in .357/.38 that could run a little better.

 

I have seen some of the Marlin guys loading to a length of like 1.38. Is that just for the Marlins?

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I have found that my two '92s run best with 158gr RN set at 1.585 OAL.   Nate Kiowa Jones (The Rossi Guy) told me to use that bullet and start at 1.5" and work from there till I found what the rifle would run best.  They both refuse to run TC profile bullets, and do not like bullets that weigh less that 158gr.  Your rifle may like something else.

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Rube,

 

I have a 16" carbine that I have to load a COAL of 1.44" in order to get ten in the magazine.  But, I suspect it would run faster if I could load the cartridges a bit longer.  I did load some down to 1.4" before the gun really started to balk

 

Most Rossis prefer a longer oal.  You just have to find what yours likes.  Load some 1.5" and some 1.54" if the guns prefer one over the other take the next step in that direction.  The guns will tell you pretty quickly what they do not like.

 

Tracker mentioned bullet profile, this can be as important as oal.  While mine liked most RNFP and TC it did not run as well with the real blunt RNFP and barely ran at all with SWC.

 

It seems as if every Rossi is different.  You may have to load different lengths for each gun or find a compromise you can live with.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Smoke

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I have 4 that were slicked up per the instructions in Nate Kiowa Jones' video. All 4 run 125 gr. LTC seated to 1.505 OAL with no issues.

 

They will also run 158 gr. FP, 158 gr RNFP,  or 147 gr. LTC with no issues with an OAL between 1.49 and 1.505.

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What would be the proper "test"? Load up 10 dummy rounds, put them all in the rifle, cycle the rounds?

 

Is that all there is to it?

 

What would a "too short" or "too long" COAL look like in this scenario?

 

I ask these basic questions because I too am loading for a Rossi 92 .357 using .38 special PMC nickel brass, 125gr flat point coated bullets from Cimmaron. I am loading to a COAL of 1.530 with a firm crimp.

 

I don't have the rifle yet else I would be able to tell you how that COAL and bullet combination works...

 

Best,

Ricochet

 

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24 minutes ago, Michael Ricochet said:

What would be the proper "test"? Load up 10 dummy rounds, put them all in the rifle, cycle the rounds?

 

Is that all there is to it?

 

What would a "too short" or "too long" COAL look like in this scenario?

 

I ask these basic questions because I too am loading for a Rossi 92 .357 using .38 special PMC nickel brass, 125gr flat point coated bullets from Cimmaron. I am loading to a COAL of 1.530 with a firm crimp.

 

I don't have the rifle yet else I would be able to tell you how that COAL and bullet combination works...

 

Best,

Ricochet

 

 

Ricochet, in my Browning 92, the too light or too short rounds would pop up off the carrier so that the noses sat above the chamber opening. Some would pop up vertically. The TC's would just jam going in the chamber. Everything that Trader Jack Daniels says above about bullet weight and cartridge length also works in my Browning.

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Thanks for all the replays. I was just curious what kind of lengths others were using. I plan to load a few at different sizes and see what the guns like. Just wanted to kinda poll the shooters here to see what others were getting. 

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Below is the info I send to my customers when they are having ammo feeding issues.

 

Quote

The thing to keep in mind is these modern straight wall pistol caliber ammo leverguns (all, not just the 92’s) are a lot like semi-auto handguns. There’s just some ammo they aren’t going to work well with.

All leveraction, pump action and semi-auto guns (long guns or handguns) are ammo length and bullet shape sensitive. Some more than other. For example, you don't think about it much if you are dealing with a rifle cal. like 3006, 308 or 223 and even 30-30. Those are bottleneck calibers. Bottlenecks always feed better than straightwall ammo, whether it is a rifle cal or a pistol cal. That's because you have a small diameter bullet going into a really big hole by comparison, the bottleneck chamber being much like a funnel.

     The original Winchester 92's were designed to work with bottleneck ammo in the 1.5" to 1.6" OAL with round nose flat point bullets. Ammo like 44-40, 38-40, 32-20 and 25-20.

   What that means is they may not work well with really long 357’s. (They tend to hit the top inside of the chamber before they make the turn into the chamber) or really short 38’s.

    The most common problem with the shorter 38's is the gun will throw out, flip or stovepipe live rounds with the empty's. This is because the shorter 38 coming on to the carrier from the tube can bounce forward enough that the rim is too close to the rim slots in the guides and when you lever it fast the carrier just catapults them up or out with the empty. (One of the things Rossi did years ago was redesign the cart guides by changing the angle of the rim slots so the back end comes up sooner. So they tend to be less ammo sensitive than other pistol cal 92 leverguns)

   Also, bullet shapes can make a difference. Bullets other than the round nosed flat point profile they were designed for can cause issues. The truncated cone or TC style bullets will work but can end up too long for some guns. As for SWC, the cutter bands tend to hang going in the chamber.

However, the 92 tends to work better than say the Marlin 1894 or Win 73’ and 94’s. This is because they kinda roll the cart in as opposed to pushing it straight forward.

For 38’s, this is what I have found to cycle best. A 158gr elongated round nose flat point seated above the crimp groove and just crimped into the side of the bullet just above the lube groove. This allows them to be loaded to a 1.5” OAL. You can do the same with the 44 spec. topo.

 

image.png.ed1a8b4e8864774ab2e9d54b50367489.png 

 

For years there were commercial reloaders that offered CAS ammo, offered 1 1/5" long loaded Cowboy leveraction 38's.

 I directed my rifle customer to "T" ammo for his 1.5" cowboy 38's. But, Roy retired so I was recommending Ammo Direct.

Well, they are out of business at least temporarily. (had a fire I believe)

 Here is the new source.

 

Contact 

CUSTOM AMMO & RELOADING SERVICES,LLC

817-326-3855

Email;  landjb7@charter.net

 

Larry Benningfield

 3110 Marble Court

 Granbury, Tx 76049.

 

they sell this ammo and will also reload your brass.

 

As for 357mag, the best feeding I’ve found is the Hornady 357 Mag 140 gr FTX® LEVERevolution

 

If changing ammo doesn’t help, You may need gun work

 

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For what it is worth...

 

I have two Rossis and a Miroku.. I did some work on the Rossis using Nate Kiowa Jones' video and they slicked up nicely (definitely worth getting the video and spring kits from him).  I tried different length and profile .38s with ok results but I found that .357 worked without fail in all three so I just went to .357 brass loaded to 38 special load specs. 

 

Trail Boss does a good job of filling the case but for lower volume powders I find that some Cream of Wheat as a case filler with a wad between it and the powder works as well and oddly enough it seems to keep the bore cleaner.

 

If I am feeling cheap I will do 38's for the pistols (since I have a lot of .38) and .357 for the rifles..a minor inconvenience having two "calibers" but if I do that I put the .357's in a belt pouch and the 38 in the belt loops to keep them separated or I'll put the .357s on one side of the belt and .38 on the other.  I also found that I had a bit more leeway for OAL in the .357 while the .38's did not.

 

The cost of .357 brass v .38 is minimal, right now Midway has Star Line. 38 for 18 cents per case per hundred and .357 for 19 cents per case and I have never had a jam with the .357's in the three rifles I have.  For a penny or two difference per case it is a lot less hassle and .357 gives you the added advantage of not having as much carbon and crud buildup in the cylinder or chamber as when you use .38 in a .357 chambered firearm.

 

Tinpan McGurk SASS# 82891

 

 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 6:47 PM, Tracker Jack Daniels, 58780 said:

I have found that my two '92s run best with 158gr RN set at 1.585 OAL.   Nate Kiowa Jones (The Rossi Guy) told me to use that bullet and start at 1.5" and work from there till I found what the rifle would run best.  They both refuse to run TC profile bullets, and do not like bullets that weigh less that 158gr.  Your rifle may like something else.

This is good advice

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Howdy,

If you are buying reloaded ammo from some independent guy over the web......

buy just a little first. DONT buy 1000 rounds to save on shipping.

A boy can say all the right things and deliver sloppy work.

When a round wont even chamber in a Ruger revolver its BAD.

But the sass folks don't like it when we 'or I'  say negative things about others.

Best

CR

 

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