Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 About a month ago I loaded up all my brass BP shotgun loads for upcoming matches, I have a couple of hundred. A friend (who will remain nameless) gave me some 11ga fiber wads that were prelubed. I thought I would try some and loaded up about 100 of them. No on to the real story.....Shot our monthly shoot yesterday and started having problems immediately. The first shotgun shell that I shot felt like it only had 1/2 a powder charge and the second barrel in my SKB would fire. (I have one set up for BP by Johnny Meadows. I like the inertia triggers and he set them up for BP). I had trouble all day with the shells, some fired ok, some not. Got home and took some apart, the damn lube had seeped into the powder and clumped it up. Going to tear apart all the ones I loaded now. Oh...the wads now reside in my trash barrel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Don't need a lube wad with BP, SG loads. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Usually need to put a card over powder wad (very thin) before putting in the lubed wad. After experimenting with fiber wads i found them to be more trouble than they are worth. I have just used plastic for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 +1 to the advice given by OLG +1 to the advice given by Larsen I only use fiber wads for BP loads for antiques that need short shells -- ones that I trim to 2-1/2 inches and roll crimp. When I make 'em, I use an over powder card. Then an un-lubed cushion wad, per OLG. For all other BP shells, I use plastic. Easier to make & the gun is easy to clean. --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 I do put a card wad over the powder to separate the fiber wad from the powder. I have used fiber wads since I started shooting BP cowboy 12 years ago. This was the 1st time (and the last) I have ever used a lubed one. I just threw away 2,000 of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 If you really want to shoot with fiber wads, I have a couple of tricks you can use, that were learned from Old Scout. Use the card board from milk cartons. It is waxes. If you don't want to do that, the next item is make cards out of the plastic milk bottles. Third item is to just use the tried and true modern plastic wads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 The other advantage to using plastic wads is that if you shoot reclaimed shot (like I do), your barrel is protected from any non-lead content (steel shot or rocks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Another thing to consider. If you are using these fiber wads in a modern shotgun that has long forcing cones most likely you are stringing out the shot pattern. This is because the wads can somewhat turn/distort in the long cone. Strung out patterns on KD's tend to not do so well. Long cones tend to pattern better with plastic wads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 +1 to NKJ's comment. That's one of the reasons why I only use fiber wads in antique guns --Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 I used Fiber Wads for years with no trouble........used over powder card, wad, and over shot card to put over the wad to prevent gunking up the funnel on my Lee Load-All. Recently started using plastic wads again for my SxS with 3" chambers, yeah I know I should use 3" shells now, but I recall a comment by Praire Dawg years ago about fiber wads jumping the cone or something and potentially wrecking the pattern, and not knocking down the knock downs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Howdy Cemetery, Blowing out the center of the pattern is usually the result of too much powder. Back off 10% and pattern the shotgun to check. I used a full choke in my CZ back when I shot brass shells to make sure the pattern was tight. Now I am a plastic wad with BP gamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 I also load All Brass 12Ga Shotgun. I use a nitro over powder card (1/8 inch thick) and then a 10Ga plastic wad with the petals cut back to a 1 ounce payload. Works a treat. I didn't trash 2000 lube'd fiber wads, I just gave em away. The 10Ga wad is just plain Trix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 7 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said: Another thing to consider. If you are using these fiber wads in a modern shotgun that has long forcing cones most likely you are stringing out the shot pattern. This is because the wads can somewhat turn/distort in the long cone. Strung out patterns on KD's tend to not do so well. Long cones tend to pattern better with plastic wads. Nate, I know that you know more about 1892 Winchesters than I could ever hope to know. But patterns and stringing just does not matter in CAS. We are not shooting trap. The target just sits there waiting for us to hit it. Clay pigeons traveling at 40 mph are one thing. Shotgun knock down targets are completely different. I have been using fiber and card wads in my Black Powder shotgun loads for many years now. Somebody lengthened the forcing cones in my old Stevens hammer double before I bought it. If the wads are tipping or not, my old Stevens knocks down everything I point it at. It just does not matter, what the pattern is doing, and my old hammer double has cylinder bores, so if anything the patterns are wide. Too much powder is one thing, that will blow a hole in the pattern like a donut. But wads tipping in the forcing cones does not amount to a hill of beans. If folks want to use plastic wads because they are simpler to load, so be it. But card and fiber wads are not cause for knockdowns to not fall down. At least not in my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Well at least we can agree we disagree. Light marginal loads like 7/8 oz over 50 to 60 grs of 2f like some shoot don't always take over KD's if they string out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 9 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said: Well at least we can agree we disagree. Light marginal loads like 7/8 oz over 50 to 60 grs of 2f like some shoot don't always take over KD's if they string out. That's what I'm shooting and I rarely fail to knock them over - how do you know if the pattern is stringing without high-speed video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Pete SASS #42168 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 The rule of thumb used to be volume for volume of shot and powder. It has worked for me for a very long time. A few years ago I backed off the BP by 10 grains with no appreciable difference in performance. Still use an over the powder card, fiber wad and top it all off with an over the shot card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 11 hours ago, Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 said: Well at least we can agree we disagree. Light marginal loads like 7/8 oz over 50 to 60 grs of 2f like some shoot don't always take over KD's if they string out. I guess I ain't shooting marginal loads. 64 or so grains of FFg and 1 1/8 ounces of #8. Purely out of laziness and convenience, because 64 grains of FFg Schuetzen is what the largest dipper (4.3CC) in the Lee set throws, and 1 1/8 ounces of shot is what the sliding bar on my MEC Jr throws. Too cheap and lazy to buy an adjustable shot bar, and too cheap and lazy to make up a custom powder dipper. Although I am obviously not too lazy to go through the extra work of loading card and fiber wads rather than plastic. This is a bit 'less than' a Square Load. The shot volume is greater than the powder volume. Powder works out to be about 2.35 Drams. I could increase the powder volume a bit to bring it up to the historical Square Load, but as I said, I am too lazy. This load has worked for me for a long time. Recoil is not bad, even though my cut down little Stevens SXS is quite light. Don't care how fast I shoot, so a little bit of recoil does not bother me. I think I may have had to shoot at one target twice this year to knock it down, Somebody cut the barrels long before I bought it, so it is cylinder bore. So the patterns will be pretty big. Usually they go right down as long as I do my part and aim. Sometimes they fall down early because they are scared. And before anybody says it, this ain't trap or skeet. Yes, I aim my shotgun just like I aim my rifle. I don't aim in trap, and I am pretty good. But if you want to hit a standing target, you actually have to aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 Quote Got home and took some apart, the damn lube had seeped into the powder and clumped it up. Going to tear apart all the ones I loaded now. Oh...the wads now reside in my trash barrel! Put a thin nitro card on the powder column first, then the fiber wads that were prelubed. You will never have an issue of " the damn lube had seeped into the powder and clumped it up" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 PS: Good question to be moved to the FAQ forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 18 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: I also load All Brass 12Ga Shotgun. I use a nitro over powder card (1/8 inch thick) and then a 10Ga plastic wad with the petals cut back to a 1 ounce payload. Works a treat. I didn't trash 2000 lube'd fiber wads, I just gave em away. The 10Ga wad is just plain Trix. I haven't had a problem with them. They're almost all gone. Thanks CM kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 3 hours ago, John Boy said: Put a thin nitro card on the powder column first, then the fiber wads that were prelubed. You will never have an issue of " the damn lube had seeped into the powder and clumped it up" You must not have read my last post as I always put a card wad over the powder before I add the fiber wad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knarley Bob Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 OK we all know about the square load............................... On top of the powder goes an over powder wad, that is a hard card that is an 1/8 " "Nitro "card. Next you have the fiber wad. Lubed or not is up to you. Some are dry some have been waxed. I always put a Tyvek patch on the fiber wad, it keeps the shot from imbedding into the wad, which will rob you of velocity and knock down power. ( It is also used to keep steel shot from imbedding into the shot cup.) You place your shot, and on top of that, you have your over shot card that helps keep the shot in the shell and aids in crimping. Check with Ballistic products for the supplies you need and instructions on how to use their products. Knarley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Howdy Again http://www.circlefly.com/index.html They are also available at Track of the Wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 On 9/3/2017 at 0:30 PM, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: Usually need to put a card over powder wad (very thin) before putting in the lubed wad. After experimenting with fiber wads i found them to be more trouble than they are worth. I have just used plastic for years. I know nothing of loading brass SG hulls and didn't know plastic wads can be used with BP. Doesn't that make the brass harder to clean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 I reload my brass shot shells once every couple of years, usually 5 boxes. Years later, with the a square load and a nitro card over the waxed fiber wad, they all ignite. The nitro card or fiber wads with no wax is the key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 I have used waxed fiber wads and they work fine. The fiber wads that were given to me look like they are impregnatated with some type of oil. they are pretty soggy. I should have known better, but live & learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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