Nurse arrested? Seems a mite harsh...

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Talk about a bad day at work!  

 

 

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

She was arrested for refusing to draw blood, thus "hindering an investigation."  She was later released and the officer was placed on administrative leave.

 

why was she put in the front seat? I thought that was not allowed.

[Utah Bob #35998]

13 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

 

why was she put in the front seat? I thought that was not allowed.

 Depends of department policy.

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

Terrible job! She will get a big check from the department. No basis for the arrest at all.

 

 

[Duffield, SASS #23454]

She is REQUIRED to protect the best interest of her patient. 

When she refused to draw blood the officer should have contacted the hospital administrator.

[Rye Miles #13621]

She was or is on the Olympic Ski team! She seems like a stand up gal, the officer was wrong!

[Smoken D]

3 hours ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

She is REQUIRED to protect the best interest of her patient. 

When she refused to draw blood the officer should have contacted the hospital administrator.

 

Was what happen to me once, and I had a search warrant. I could have started arresting everyone who refused but I worked with this E.R. crew and knew that the hospital police was very wrong. A order from all Missouri hospitals was issued that stated any patient who refused draw they were not to draw under any circumstances. They forgot about the search warrant. I had the head nurse call the hospital lawyer, 2am of course. Once that call was made her eyes got real big and she told the other nurse to draw immediately. Then when I told the judge what happen he had me respond to the hospital, place the C.E.O. in cuffs and bring her to him. Once I did he told me to close the door. Oh, the yelling at that C.E.O. and the judge was about to place her in jail for contempt. Made her apologize to me, then she had to send a letter to all Missouri hospitals outlining a correct policy. 

In this situation, it appears that the officer is wrong. Too bad the nurse just didn't comply without resisting, and then sue. She will still sue, but would have made it a bit easier on herself if she just smiled, complied, then smiled again at settlement for false arrest/detention.

[Alpo]

Good plan. When the cop illegally orders you to break the law - comply, and then sue him.

[Trailrider #896]

11 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

She was arrested for refusing to draw blood, thus "hindering an investigation."  She was later released and the officer was placed on administrative leave.

 

why was she put in the front seat? I thought that was not allowed.

She was following the law ruled on by SCOTUS!  The patient was NOT under arrest. The officer overreacted, and department policy and training needs to be thoroughly reviewed and changed.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

14 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

She was following the law ruled on by SCOTUS!  The patient was NOT under arrest. The officer overreacted, and department policy and training needs to be thoroughly reviewed and changed.

 

This is the facts. The nurse followed Utah and Federal law.

The LEO went way over the line. My bet, not only is his career is over, he'll be facing criminal and civil charges.

I will also bet this LEO has some history with the perp.......The stupid was strong here.

OLG

 

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

2 hours ago, Smoken D said:

 

Too bad the nurse just didn't comply without resisting, and then sue. She will still sue, but would have made it a bit easier on herself if she just smiled, complied, then smiled again at settlement for false arrest/detention.

 

 

I strongly disagree.  I personally believe that when the Police behave improperly that to the extent that we can refuse to allow their illegal action without violence, we should.  If she had complied we would never see this overreaching behavior.  It happens all the time.  When it is resisted it is disclosed to those who are either ignorant of it or who choose not to believe it happens.

 

Good job Nurse, for you patient and for the good of all.

[Smoken D]

27 minutes ago, J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE said:

 

 

I strongly disagree.  I personally believe that when the Police behave improperly that to the extent that we can refuse to allow their illegal action without violence, we should.  If she had complied we would never see this overreaching behavior.  It happens all the time.  When it is resisted it is disclosed to those who are either ignorant of it or who choose not to believe it happens.

 

Good job Nurse, for you patient and for the good of all.

 

The more you resist the stronger reaction from an officer will occur. You will end up being hurt, disabling injuries, or even shot. Comply, Comply, Comply. Then let the courts sort it out. Go ahead and strongly resist in a false arrest/detention and see what will happen to you. I would rather come out physically OK than not. Then I'll smile with the pay out. 

[J.D. Daily]

6 hours ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

She is REQUIRED to protect the best interest of her patient. 

When she refused to draw blood the officer should have contacted the hospital administrator.

The hospital administration did inform the LEO of the NATIONAL policy as delineated by the opinion of SCOTUS re. that involuntary blood draw is a 5th amendment violation unless ordered by a judge.  If she had complied she & the hospital would have been civilly libel for violating the unconscious truck driver's civil rights.  "I was just following orders" is not a valid defense as was evident when the Nuremberg Defense was soundly rejected.  The news has described the offending LEO duty as a phlebotomist assigned to the hospital ER for LE related blood testing.  If so why didn't he do the blood draw.  I fault his employer for not making sure he knew the case law re. extracting blood for LE purposes.  While he was ordered to get blood from the victim, when he determined that the victim couldn't give permission he should have informed his superiors.  They could then try to get a judge to issue a subpoena.

 

[Henry T Harrison]

Lesson #1 as a police officer never ever p$$$ off an ER nurse period! It will come back to bite you in the butt and probably soon especially if you're lying on your back on a gurney in her ER

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

Us LEO's are like anyone else, some good some bad, some smart some stupid. That officer falls into the last category. Its basic, taught in every academy, to take blood y'all need a warrant. I hope they get rid of him, as he makes the rest of us look bad. WE had a rule (unwritten) always take care of the nurses, as we might end up there one time. One of my officers called me when I was patrol sgt. and said he had a tipsy nurse stopped (Christmas party) and what should he do. I told him to tow her vehicle, and take her home if he couldn't get one of her friends to come and drive her home. one of her friends (sober) came and did just that. 10-8, no number!

Best part of that was the story got around and we had 'friends' at each hospital here.

 

[Calamity Kris]

5 hours ago, Alpo said:

Good plan. When the cop illegally orders you to break the law - comply, and then sue him.

 

The problem with that is if she had complied, she and the hospital were at a HUGE risk for having the patient sue them for violation of their 5th amendment rights.  As much as the cop became a jerk when she resisted, she absolutely did the right thing.  The cop was out of line and out of control.  She was following her Nightengale Pledge and I commend her for that. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

5 hours ago, Alpo said:

Good plan. When the cop illegally orders you to break the law - comply, and then sue him.

Thank God, you are not a lawyer. 

OLG

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Instead of blue, she will probably soon be wearing green...... as in $$$$$.

 

..........Widder

[FriscoCounty]

2 hours ago, Calamity Kris said:

 

The problem with that is if she had complied, she and the hospital were at a HUGE risk for having the patient sue them for violation of their 5th amendment rights.  As much as the cop became a jerk when she resisted, she absolutely did the right thing.  The cop was out of line and out of control.  She was following her Nightengale Pledge and I commend her for that. 

 

In Utah any doctor or nurse, and the hospital, are immune from civil and criminal liability when drawing blood on an officer's orders.

[Alpo]

We really need a sarcasm font.

 

Smoken D says, "she shoulda cimplied, and then sued the cop later".

 

I say, "good idea. Obey the cop when he tells you to break the law", and y'all are bustin' MY chops.

 

Wow.

[Calamity Kris]

28 minutes ago, Alpo said:

We really need a sarcasm font.

 

Smoken D says, "she shoulda cimplied, and then sued the cop later".

 

I say, "good idea. Obey the cop when he tells you to break the law", and y'all are bustin' MY chops.

 

Wow.

 

You are right.  We need a sarcasm font.  I didn't know you were being sarcastic.  I apologize for grousing. 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

old school.......

<g> = little laugh

<G> = big laugh

<s> = sarcsum

<S> = over the top

[Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619]

Just a fiasco. He didn't have a warrant. End of story. The guy in the hospital wasn't even the perp; he was the innocent victim in the accident.

 

I don't let LE into my house without a warrant and I'm "hindering an investigation" and thus subject to arrest? Same thing.

[Smoken D]

Ah, my eyes are a bit open this morning. I see how some are reading me. I did not mean for her to comply with the cops order, he was wrong with that order as wrong as can be. I meant when he arrested her to comply and not resist. Stand still, let the officer handcuff ya, comply. Then when all over sue, sue, sue for false arrest/detention. Then ya don't get hurt. The thing is don't resist being arrested, bad things happen to those who resist. That's for your safety as also for the officer's. And yes, there is a time to resist, but hopefully not in my time. 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

When Boston was chasing the marathon bomber, IIRC many warrantless searches were conducted.  I don't know if anybody said no.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

49 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

When Boston was chasing the marathon bomber, IIRC many warrantless searches were conducted.  I don't know if anybody said no.

 

How so?-It's a 'fresh-pursuit'.

OLG

 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Do the fresh pursuit guidelines include door to door, every door every building every neighborhood?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

33 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

Do the fresh pursuit guidelines include door to door, every door every building every neighborhood?

 

If you are in chase-It very well could.

I chased more than a few BURGLERS through more than one residence, to apprehend them. 

OLG

Edited September 3, 2017 by The Original Lumpy Gritz
For Marshal No-Hair

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

You hate reveille?  

 

6 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

If you are in chase-It very well could.

I chased more than a few buglers through more than one residence, to apprehend them. 

OLG

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

6 minutes ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

You hate reveille?  

 

 

 Can't spell before mi second cup of cooffeee. 

OLG

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

16 hours ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

old school.......

<g> = little laugh

<G> = big laugh

<s> = sarcsum

<S> = over the top

How about these.

Head Smack = How can you be that dumb?

Smirk = Gotcha, Happy...

 

 

[Henry T Harrison]

5 hours ago, Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 said:

When Boston was chasing the marathon bomber, IIRC many warrantless searches were conducted.  I don't know if anybody said no.

It falls under exigent circumstances 

[DocWard]

Just a few observations.

 

When I was an assistant prosecutor, every rookie cop I knew of knew that law enforcement could only obtain blood two ways, either through consent or through a warrant. I wrote a few warrants for just such a purpose, the first when I had only been at the office a few months and the entire staff other than myself were gone for continuing education (I didn't need it at the time). Those same rookies know if they have any doubt, there are supervisors, and ultimately assistant prosecutors they can call, at any hour, and judges the prosecutors can contact, again at any hour. If it is true for a small county like mine, I am sure it is true for a larger city

Clearly, an unconscious person cannot give consent. The only option left is a warrant. The officer did not have one. Even if he had bullied the nurse or another into performing the blood draw, the evidence would have never seen its way into court, because it was illegally obtained. As a prosecutor, I would never have attempted it, because it would not have survived a motion to suppress, and would have likely angered a judge in the process. The Fourth Amendment case law on this issue is pretty cut and dried.

The officer in question should never be in a position to be in law enforcement again, or have the ability to have any color of authority over others. Yes, I believe he should probably face charges, and possible federal action for civil rights violations.

As for the nurse, she did the right thing. While she has indicated she has no plan to sue, I question whether it is the right choice only because not doing so may allow the incident to be swept under the rug.

Edited September 3, 2017 by DocWard

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

4 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

It falls under exigent circumstances 

 

IIRC, the officers performing those searches asked permission to enter, and no one refused; "Excuse me, ma'am; we are searching for 2 armed terrorists, and believe they may be in your house; may we enter?"

 

Who's going to say "No"?

 

The best anecdote from that harrowing day was the number of previously anti-gun folks who told the cops that they wished they had a gun....

 

LL

[Seamus McGillicuddy]

In addition to his other transgressions, I read that the officer also was threatening the hospital that he would make sure that all indigent patients would be brought there in the future. Man must have quite an ego. 

 

Seamus.