Slicking up a Marlin 1894 .44 Magnum (newby)

[Space Cowboy, #106127]

Shot my first match Saturday, soooo much fun. I have a lot to work on compared to other pards that were there.

 

Things were fine until the 4th stage. I stepped to the table, said my line, the buzzer went of, I reached for my Marlin '94, cocked it and the bullet jammed under the gate. It was so bad I had to have 2 pards help me take the lever out to release the bullet. This happened to me once when I first got it too. One of the guys there said he had not seen a jam this bad in his 20 years of CAS. Embarrassing, and needless to say, it messed with my confidence once it was fixed. This was the second time I had shot it now I am concerned. As I went ahead and shot it one last time, I also found myself not completely closing the lever before it would shoot (like I said, confidence was wrecked).

 

So, with this info I assume I need it "slicked up". Would like to hear from folks what I need done. Any suggestions???

[Widder, SASS #59054]

".....bullet jammed under the gate."

 

That is a description which is hard to actually diagnose the problem because all of our rounds fall under the gate when they are moving from the portal to the carrier.

 

BUT, its a guess of mine that you might have a serious timing problem and if so, its not hard to remedy.

 

Is your Marlin a JM produced Marlin or is it one of the newer Remington made Marlins, sometimes referred to as a Remlin?

 

There are some super Cowboy smiths around who might can help, but if its a Remlin, some smiths prefer not to mess with them.  They can be a nightmare because trying to fix one problem sometimes reveals other issues in them.

 

If you want to give me a shout, we can examine your rifle better over the phone and hopefully steer you in the right direction.

If you call me, have your rifle, a screw driver and flashlight with you.

 

Best regards,

 

..........Widder

h:  865 / 336-2339

c:  865 / 696-1996

 

 

[Space Cowboy, #106127]

Thanks Widder, I knew about the JM thing but ordered it online without being able to examine it, cost was so good could not pass up. The pard they partnered me up with used the term "Remlin" as well. The first time I shot it my friend said it looked like I short stroked, maybe. Saturday, we discovered on of screws on the side was actually  not as tight as it could be. New shooter so I guess I need to retighten screws before I shoot.

 

Off to work now but may take you up on that call offer, thanks  -)

[Widder, SASS #59054]

A couple other thoughts:

If it is only a timing issue, its possible that the gun will run correctly with a particular length of ammo, normally the longer stuff.   Often times, the shorter ammo (or even the .44 special) can give feeding issues.

If for some reason someone has setup the timing for .44 special only, then feeding the longer stuff can also be an issue.   In reality, the timing can be set correctly to feed any reasonable length .44 special and .44 mag with no problems.

 

IF you decide to call, also have a couple DUMMY rounds with you if possible.    I prefer not to be giving instructions to anyone on the phone while they are cycling LIVE stuff....... 

 

I'm retired so feel free to call anytime.

 

Have a good day.

 

..........Widder

 

[Space Cowboy, #106127]

Thanks again, I guess I should add that the first jam was while shooting specials, the first time I shot the gun. I later read somewhere that magnums feed better and found a bunch of ammo on sale, that was what I was shooting with Saturday.

[Buckshot Dobbs]

I have 2 Remlins (one of which I have shot in matches for almost 5 years) and Widder has helped me SO much it isn't funny. A couple of things I would suggest right off the bat...get the springs set from Longhunter first off. This fixes many issues. Then trim that silly magazine spring...at least 3 -4 coils off of it....then take the dang thing apart and go over all the internals GENTLY with some Emory cloth to remove burrs...not material, just the burrs. Also use that Emory cloth on the rough edges around the mouth of the chamber and the edges around the entrance to the tubular magazine area. 

 

A good start...this is pretty much all I did to my newest one I ordered brand new in 45 LC and she runs pretty good....still fine tuning her....my older Remlin could not be any better, never gives me a hitch....after MUCH work indeed lol.

 

BD

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Have you check EVERY screw to be sure they are 'TITE'?

What style of bullet are you using? M/94's don't like semi-wadcutter shaped bullets.

Hope you are loading in a .44 mag case.

OLG

[Throckmorton,23149]

Saturday, we discovered on of screws on the side was actually  not as tight as it could be. New shooter so I guess I need to retighten screws before I shoot.

 

I have seen a loose screw cause even a JM Marlin jam several times. Carry a screwdriver and check them often,and just 'snug' them up,don't over tighten.

 

the JM Marlins have the JM stamped on the barrel, much sought after by Marlin aficionados .

[Slow Mo Dern]

Hi Cowboy,

 

     I know a friend who checks his Marlin screws after every stage.  Some tend to loosen really easily.

 

     Start saving up for an 1873 Codymatic  and keep the Remlin for a spare! 

 

     Shoot fast and hassle-free;  it's no fun participating in such a fun sport if you're distraught at every stage- with your equipment. 

 

     I used to shoot Marlins but the "fun factor" went up considerably when I got my 1873.  No more grief! 

 

     All my best,

 

     Mo Dern

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Let #242 or #243 blue Loctite, become your friend. 

OLG

[Space Cowboy, #106127]

Thanks to everyone, all great advice and to Widder, I'll call once i can get some dummy rounds.

 

Here is my issue... I know about as much about guns as I do cars, since I am new to this. I know to clean often, oil up parts, shoot the required ammo. My fear being so new is once I take it apart I may not get it back together. I am likely going to write down a lot of the suggestions and take them to a local gun smith as I know business has been slow and he knows what he is doing.

 

Before I do, here is what I do know...

1. I bought my Marlin brand new, online, there is no JM stamp on it but an REP - I assume that makes it a "Remlin"

2. I bought it for 2 reason; 1. cost and a rebate and, 2. It sounds like the right model for Wild Bunch which I hope to do next summer. I wanted to go cheap before investing too much in a sport I might not like (ok, so far, I like it A LOT)

3. the ammo I used was Ultramax 240 grain 44 magnum round nose flat point. Not much else to tell on that.

 

Final Thoughts?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy Space Cowboy.

 

1.  Yes, your Marlin is made by Remington.   

2.  Your initial cost could be a good investment...... or it could end up costing you just as much for gunsmith work.  See my story below.

3.  In my opinion, the ammo was probably o.k.   It would be hard to tell without actually looking at the rifle functioning with it.

I based my opinion on your problem description, which doesn't sound like a problem with the bullet style.   BUT, some bullet styles can get you a feeding issue.

 

STORY:  Last summer,  Remington sold some in-house 1894 rifles to some of their employees, real cheap (I was told $300)

I was ask to work on one of them by an employee who bought one.  I was also told by the employee that Rem/Marlin sold these to the employees under the premise that "these rifles have been made right".

Anyhow, once I got inside that rifle, I counted 9 QA problems.   The rifle was horrible.

I was able to fix everything.   And it actually turned out to be a REAL NICE Widdermatic.   But, instead of having a $300 investment in a nice rifle, the owner now has twice as much invested in that rifle.

 

I've worked on 4 Remlins, and each time I tell myself I won't work on another.    I have been told by a couple friends who own and shoot the new .45 caliber 1894's that their rifles work fine, with no issues.  But some smoothing up and changing out the springs did help a lot.    

 

Hopefully, your rifle might just have a minor issue.   And based on your previous comment about having a jam using .44 special ammo, your problem could very well only be in your timing.  

 

I look forward to talking with you.

 

..........Widder

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Lots of folks have issues with Ultramax ammo in M/94's.

OLG

[J.W. Sinclair]

I have a "Remlin" Marlin 1894 in .44 Magnum that was made in November 2015. I got it because I shoot a Marlin for CAS and I really like it. I own 7 Marlin lever actions altogether.

 

My .44 1894 is my main match rifle for Wild Bunch. It is a good rifle. I did some "slicking up" on it. I used a spring kit from the Smith Shop, a one piece firing pin from Slick McClade, and followed the instructions off of Marauder's website.

 

It is still length sensitive and it is also sensitive to the profile of the bullet. I load 200 grain RNFP in a Starline .44 Special case at a length of 1.56". I roll crimp the case at the top of the lube groove. That round feeds properly in my Marlin and both of my .44 Magnum model 92's. None of the three like shorter rounds and none of the three like  SWC's.

 

If I feed it what it likes, it runs great.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

Before you get all excited just get some screwdrivers or bits that fit each of

your marlin screws.  Tighten them and try a couple different brand and shape ammo.

JM marlins had problems too. Don't even imagine they didn't need work cause they DID.

A loose screw or two makes a huge difference.

And I like PURPLE Loctite.

I looked all over for it, then asked at an autoparts store.

They didn't carry it on the shelf but it only took ONE day for it

to arrive from the warehouse.

W. Hill has made you a very nice offer.

Remington needs to wake up and make their 94s the BEST.

No one is making more jm marlins. 

MANY gunsmiths could fix the jm marlins.

I don't see why Rem cant make new 94s right.

And even with a jm marlin and proper tune up, short movement on

the lever could jam one. I saw it done too try to get a price lowered.

I didn't fall for that one.

Best

CR

 

[Pat Riot]

On 8/29/2017 at 11:03 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Let #242 or #243 blue Loctite, become your friend. 

OLG

What OLG said...AND some quality hollow ground "gunsmithing" screwdriver bits that fit all your screws. Don't use standard screwdrivers on your guns.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

And I like PURPLE Loctite.

 

Best

CR

 

 

The PURPLE with not hold up to the oils and solvents like the BLUE does. 

That is from 'hands-on' experience.

Respectfully,

OLG

 

[Bramble Mountain Buzzard]

I just got the 45 Colt version for a backup and Wild Bunch. They had a $75 rebate last month on the 94's. With shipping and FFL fee and before new firing pin and rear sight, I have $405 into it. Other than smooth ALL the sharp spots, here's what I did:

 

Replaced the hammer spring with a cut down Ruger spring.

Replaced the lever latch spring with a cut down ball point pen spring.

Replaced the 2 piece firing pin with the one piece.

Cut down the magazine spring by removing 4 coils.

Lightened up the loading gate spring.

Add a lever wrap.

Replaced the rear sight (I prefer the full buckhorn).

Straighten out the trigger.

 

I did have to add some finish to the stock and fore end. While the wood is pretty nice. The factory is not putting the extra coats of finish on them.

[Straight Stock]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 10:31 AM, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said:

".....bullet jammed under the gate."

 

That is a description which is hard to actually diagnose the problem because all of our rounds fall under the gate when they are moving from the portal to the carrier.

 

BUT, its a guess of mine that you might have a serious timing problem and if so, its not hard to remedy.

 

Is your Marlin a JM produced Marlin or is it one of the newer Remington made Marlins, sometimes referred to as a Remlin?

 

There are some super Cowboy smiths around who might can help, but if its a Remlin, some smiths prefer not to mess with them.  They can be a nightmare because trying to fix one problem sometimes reveals other issues in them.

 

If you want to give me a shout, we can examine your rifle better over the phone and hopefully steer you in the right direction.

If you call me, have your rifle, a screw driver and flashlight with you.

 

Best regards,

 

..........Widder

h:  865 / 336-2339

c:  865 / 696-1996

 

 

 

Widder, would you mind if I could give you a call as well? I bought a used Remlin 44 mag, function fired 10 rounds just fine, then on the first stage of a match the very first round jammed up the action. I took the entire thing apart, and see that there is a groove cut into the lifter, but the depth is hard to measure. I can feel it if I run my fingernail over it, so I'm not sure if this is causing the jamming. I then lightly polished the snail on the lever so its not so sharp, slightly beveled the inside opening of the mag tube at 12 o'clock just to smooth it out, put it back together and its still jamming the same way. Doesn't seem to be a problem if I load just a few rounds, but always when fully loaded on the first round. Also, the lever will pop open upon loading that 9th or 10th round if I don't hold it closed as I load. I did not cut any coils off the mag spring. Cartridge length is 1.545" roll crimped RNFP. Pic attached.

[Clinch Leatherwood #102974]

Listen to Widder. He is a Marlin expert. I did his mod on my Marlin and I love it

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Penn Pistolero,

I plan to be home most all week.   Give me a call anytime.

It sounds like someone has previously worked on your Marlin, or atleast part of it.   The lever doesn't normally pop open when left in it factory condition.   Most folks, including myself, tweak the lever plunger and spring but when set correctly, shouldn't pop open so easy during the loading process.

 

When you call,  try to have a screw driver, flashlight and some dummy rounds with you, if possible.

 

Clinch...thanks for the kind words... 

 

 

..........Widder

 

[Sgt. Saywut]

Not a .44 Mag version, but my .357 Mag 1894 produced circa 1951 (1.80M serial number) has a decided preference for round-shouldered bullets.  Truncated cone bullets often hang up during feeding.  

 

The loose screws comments are spot on!

[Straight Stock]

Could this tiny, tiny, groove be the source of the problem? I can't even measure it, but I'd say its about 0.05 mm deep. Upon working the lever real slow-like, it appears that after the first round is on the lifter, the next one is just barely catching and making it on the front of the lifter, seizing the action. If I clear the first round off the carrier and push that second round back into the magazine, the action frees up. I will attempt to call Marlin as well to get their input.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Pistolero,

 

99% of folks will tell you that is the problem.......... but not me.

It is an indication of wear......in particular, TIMING wear.

 

This is kinda hard to put into words, but basically, the Marlin Jam is create on the LOWER half of the timing ramp, not the upper half.

 

When the Lever starts its downward movement (opening the action), the rim of the case located at the loading gate starts to follow the lever's rearward movement inside the receiver.   At this point, the front of the carrier should be at the 6 o'clock position of the magazine portal.   ALSO at this position, the snail cam on the lever is about 1/3 up the carrier ramp.

 

The next slightest movement of the lever downward will position the snail cam and the timing ramp just a tad higher where the front of the carrier will allow the bullet to clear the magazine portal, yet will stop the greater diameter of the RIM of the next cartridge.

 

When the lower 1/3 of the carrier ramp has worn, this causes the timing of the carrier to be SLOW.   That is why some folks will tell you to load longer OverAll Length ammo to stop the Marlin Jam...... and this is a reasonable cure, depending upon the severity of the timing.   Longer ammo allows the bullet of the 'feeding' round to keep the rim of the next round in the portal just a little longer for the carrier to rise high enough to stop it.

 

TEST:  put you some dummy rounds in your rifle that are a little longer than those rounds you were using when the jam occurred.   

IF you are having a problem with slow timing, the longer stuff should feed better and you will probably not experience the jam unless your timing is worn more than usual.   NOTE:  I have seen brand new carriers from the manufacture have a low timing ramp that wouldn't work correctly.   Stuff happens.

 

On the other hand, if timing is to fast,  the carrier to pinch longer length ammo.

 

I hope my explanation didn't confuse anyone but hopefully has helped others understand 'initial' timing a little better on the Marlin.

 

EDIT:  that 'mark' on your carrier is made by the sharp edge of the snail cam and indicates the position the snail cam stopped rotating up the carrier ramp.   The positive or negative effects of your timing have already occurred by the time the snail cam reaches that point.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

[Straight Stock]

I'll load up some longer dummy rounds tonight and see what happens. Either way, is the best fix to just install a new carrier?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Let me add to Widder's remarks.

I have seen this happen when the carrier radius where the wear notch is, was close to being out of spec.

One way to test this,  is to carefully put a strip of duct tape over the snail cam on the lever, and test cycle with dummy ammo.

If that fixes the problem. I then low-temp silver solder a .010 steel shim stock strip to that radius on the carrier. This shim goes from about 1/4" behind the notch to just behind the where the carrier expands in width.

All Marlin will do is to tell you to send it to them and then wait......Their fix'n record ain't great.

Finding new carriers, is like finding a unicorn. 

Widder is the Marlin Man!

Respectfully,

OLG

 

[Warden Callaway]

Here is a topic on welding a Marlin carrier.  There are several ways to achieve the same results if you're a DiY kind of guy.  If not, Gunner has the best fix going.   

[Straight Stock]

Can the fix be done by soldering or with JB weld? I don't have access to a TIG welder, but i'm willing to try to affix a modified jigsaw blade if soldering or JB weld would do the job. I also reached out to Gunner Gatlin via email as well.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Don't count on the JB holding for long with the vibration and oils.

Maybe contact Widder via phone and see what he says.

OLG

[Straight Stock]

Just got off the phone with Marlin support, who informed me that the gun is a 2016 year production based on the serial number. I did buy the gun used, so who knows how many rounds were fired through it before I bought it. They were willing to sell me a carrier, but I think I'll try to fix the existing one first. For the price of the carrier, I'd rather just trade it in for a Rossi!

[Warden Callaway]

27 minutes ago, Pennsyltucky Pistolero said:

Can the fix be done by soldering or with JB weld? I don't have access to a TIG welder, but i'm willing to try to affix a modified jigsaw blade if soldering or JB weld would do the job. I also reached out to Gunner Gatlin via email as well.

 

It only takes a few thousandths.  A bead of TIG weld in the right spot will be aplenty.  Widder recommends removing the plunger and spring before welding to prevent the spring from loosing temper.  Then replace the push on clip that holds the plunger with a snap ring. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

34 minutes ago, Pennsyltucky Pistolero said:

They were willing to sell me a carrier, but I think I'll try to fix the existing one first. For the price of the carrier, I'd rather just trade it in for a Rossi!

 

What did Remmy want for a carrier?

Have you shot a Rossi?

Call widder...........

OLG

[Straight Stock]

24 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

What did Remmy want for a carrier?

Have you shot a Rossi?

Call widder...........

OLG

 

$81.45, can't remember if that included tax and / or shipping. Same price as Midway and brownells practically. Yeah, I have a Rossi 92 in 357 that I slicked up and runs great. I'll call widder tonight too  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

That proves Remmy is NUTZ............

PLZ keep us updated.

One other thing that helps. I use a shim to remove ALL side to side play in the carrier, at the pivot screw.

I install this shim on the right side of the carrier's pivot point, to 'load' the carrier to the left side of the rec'r 'wall'.

Here's a new style extractor, that makes a fantastic improvement over the OEM and feeding/extraction issues.

http://rangerpointstore.com/categories/extractionteam/marlin-1894-m94-extractor-claw

 

OLG

[Warden Callaway]

46 minutes ago, Pennsyltucky Pistolero said:

 

$81.45, can't remember if that included tax and / or shipping. Same price as Midway and brownells practically. Yeah, I have a Rossi 92 in 357 that I slicked up and runs great. I'll call widder tonight too  

 

I have a small handful of carriers in my spare parts box.  Maybe I should lock them in the safe.