.38 special bullets and powder recommendations

[Michael Ricochet]

Yes I read some of the links on the "Please book mark this page for reloading questions" however I am asking the group what is commonly used for my particular setup:

 

Taylor's Smoke Wagon 4 3/4 bbl - would like recommendation on which bullet to use. I know its recommended to use the Round Nose Flat Point bullets however what weight is most common?

 

Rossi 92 Lever Action 20" bbl - Which bullet to use that will feed well? And would it be wise to use the same in the handgun (loaded to a different charge weight and COAL)?

 

And lastly, which are some of the most common powders to use with these bullets and intended purposes?

 

I've read the thread on the scarce Federal primers and although I will look for them I will also try the other ones recommended in that thread. I think I have a couple thousand CCI's however I don't see them recommended much so I might just save them for my Smith.

 

I already have 1000 pieces of virgin nickel PMC brass that I bought for my Smith .357 so I'm good there... just need to start looking for the other components.

 

Thanks Pards!

Ricochet

 

[Sedalia Dave]

I shoot 125 grain Hi-Tek coated Lead Truncated Cone bullets  in both my riles and pistols Use the exact same powder charge in both..

 

All 4 of my 92s like the OAL to be 1.505 using 38 special brass. This means that I do not crimp in the crimp groove.

 

Get mine from Cimarron Bullets.

[Michael Ricochet]

Howdy Sedalia Dave, exactly the info I'm looking for. I understand about the importance of COAL for the lever gun and not crimping on the cannelure.

 

what powder are you using? I have books and know how to work up a load. Been reloading since 1990.

 

Ricochet 

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

For .38 sp 125 and 105 grain  bullets are pretty common. I don't see much difference between the two.

 

Federal primers aren't that hard to find if you look. I've never used anything else.

 

For powder I like Clays. It's not hard to find either.

 

Gamaliel had Clays, Federal Small Pistol Magnum Match, and Winchester Featherlites with no hazmat fee a couple of weeks ago.

 

I suggest picking an OAL that works for your rifle and sticking to it. There's no need to load to different lengths.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

What caliber r your pistols and rifle?

[Michael Ricochet]

.357 shooting .38 special

 

Ricochet

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

I've shot only 38 specials since I started in 2003..

Bullets...

After I got out of the 158 grain bullet mode ..(about 1 1/2 years) 

and I started reloading my own..

I switched to 125 grain Truncated Cone flat point  w/ crimp groove

for the rifle with &105 grain TCFP w/cg for the pistol..

That's just me..

I've always loaded the rifle a tad higher than the pistol..

In the last 3 years or so they have come out with a 110 grain TC w/crimp groove

and flat point and I've switched to that now for both rifle and pistol..

Crimping in the crimp groove the overall length is the same 

for the 125, 105 and the 110 grain..

Edit: Mine load to 1.435 OAL in the crimp groove..

 

Powder.. I started with Winchester 231 powder and switched to TrailBoss 

as soon as it came out.. I still load the rifle with a tad heavier load..

 

Primers.. I used Winchester small pistol primers for probably 

about 8-9 years with great success with lightened hammer springs

in my old Vaquero's..

Never (should never use that word) had a bunch of missfires.. 

I happened upon some Federal small pistol primers and have been

using them ever since..

I buy them when I SEE them NOT when I NEED them.. 

 

Rance 

Thinkin that's my story and I'm stickin to it 

Just my way of doin things..

 

 

 

 

[Michael Ricochet]

Howdy Rance and thanks for the colorful reply.

 

Any particular reason you use a tad heavier load in your rifle?

 

Regards,

Ricochet

 

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

2 minutes ago, Michael Ricochet said:

Howdy Rance and thanks for the colorful reply.

 

Any particular reason you use a tad heavier load in your rifle?

 

Regards,

Ricochet

 

 

A lot has ta do with the way yer brain thinks??

 

I'm thinkin a smite heavier load gets my rifle bullet to the target

quicker..  and the lighter pistol load gives me less recoil

in the pistol.. Tryin ta stay on target..

They only vary by 6/10ths. of a grain..

When I have pistol knock downs my rifle ammo goes into my Vaquero's

and vise versa.. My '73's and my wife's Marlin's all shoot the 1.435 OAL..

 

Rance 

Thinkin' "The rest of my story" 

[Michael Ricochet]

Ok I'll buy that.

 

Powder Valley has Trail Boss 4lbs for ~$115 no Federal primers however I just checked my inventory and I have 1500 CCI small pistol primers and a pound of W231 so that'll get me started just need to order me some projectiles...

 

oh yeah I'll also need the guns :-)

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

24 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

I've shot only 38 specials since I started in 2003..

Bullets...

After I got out of the 158 grain bullet mode ..(about 1 1/2 years) 

and I started reloading my own..

I switched to 125 grain Truncated Cone flat point  w/ crimp groove

for the rifle with &105 grain TCFP w/cg for the pistol..

That's just me..

I've always loaded the rifle a tad higher than the pistol..

In the last 3 years or so they have come out with a 110 grain TC w/crimp groove

and flat point and I've switched to that now for both rifle and pistol..

Crimping in the crimp groove the overall length is the same 

for the 125, 105 and the 110 grain..

Edit: Mine load to 1.435 OAL in the crimp groove..

 

Powder.. I started with Winchester 231 powder and switched to TrailBoss 

as soon as it came out.. I still load the rifle with a tad heavier load..

 

Primers.. I used Winchester small pistol primers for probably 

about 8-9 years with great success with lightened hammer springs

in my old Vaquero's..

Never (should never use that word) had a bunch of missfires.. 

 

Ramce, 

Who makes your 110s?

24 minutes ago, Rance - SASS # 54090 said:

I happened upon some Federal small pistol primers and have been

using them ever since..

I buy them when I SEE them NOT when I NEED them.. 

 

Rance 

Thinkin that's my story and I'm stickin to it 

Just my way of doin things..

 

 

 

 

 

[Bart Solo]

I was asked this question at the loading table earlier today.  I am pretty simple, and I reload to shoot so I want one set up for rifle and pistol.  I use 125 grain TCFP bullets with the Hi-Tek Coating, which I buy from Missouri Bullet.  I use HP 38 (Win 231) loaded to the published minimum.  I don't drop below published minimums because I want uniform performance.  We are talking about a low velocity 38 in any event so shaving the powder too low doesn't really do much except lead to erratic performance.  My OAL is 1.485 so the bullet is seated long.  I use a reasonable crimp.  Like others I buy Federal Primers when I see them at a reasonable price.  I use either the magnum or regular primers and don't notice much difference between the two.   My guns were set up by two of the big name gunsmiths and they both told me their guns work best with Federal primers.  

[Yusta B.]

19 minutes ago, Michael Ricochet said:

Ok I'll buy that.

 

Powder Valley has Trail Boss 4lbs for ~$115 no Federal primers however I just checked my inventory and I have 1500 CCI small pistol primers and a pound of W231 so that'll get me started just need to order me some projectiles...

 

oh yeah I'll also need the guns :-)

PV lists small pistol mag match. Will work fine.

[Michael Ricochet]

Thanks Bart good info!

 

Thanks Yusta good to know those will work too. Not much cost difference.

 

Ricochet

[Major Crimes]

I have the Uberti SASS Pro 4 and 3/4" .357Mag pistols (I think they are the base Taylors use for your pistol?) and the Uberti 1866 Yellow Boy in 38spcl (they dont make this in .357Mag).

 

I shoot the same load (inc OAL) in both and I dont seperate rifle or pistol load.

 

I shoot mainly Starline brass (I have some 2nd hand brass in multi makes that I use for practice but have never had a problem with it and am starting to get lazy about seperating them).

 

I load 125gr RNFP exclusively and have a pretty generous OAL that I worked out by loading a loose projectile into a case and feeding it into the rifle to see where it seated. I dont have my records in front of me so if you want exact numbers I can PM you later (I check my book everytime I start loading even though I have done it a hundred times).

 

I load Trail Boss and again if you want numbers PM me.

 

I use Federal small pistol primers (not that hard to get here at the moment) and have never had a problem.

[Bull Skinner]

The reason you don't see CCI Primers recommended is because our tuned guns won't set em off. If your pistols will. use em. Not a thing wrong with em.

I load 5 CALIBERS for CAS. I use Red Dot in all five, including my 38s. Currently I'm loading a 130 grain TC.

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

36 minutes ago, Straight Arrow Hombre said:

 

Ramce, 

Who makes your 110s?

 

 

I get them from a guy they call Deuce Stevens..

He's some kind of a first class shooter up north of me..

I personal message him here on the wire when I need some..

I ask him how many he can stuff into a flat rate box??   

He tells me..

I ask him how much.. 

He tells me..

He puts the bullets in the mail  I put a check in the mail.. 

 

Rance 

Thinkin we been doin this fer a few years..

 

 

[Michael Ricochet]

Thanks Pards! Lots of good info here and just what I was lookin' fer!

 

Ricochet

[Charlie Whiskers]

  You made a comment that you still need the guns. A 92 "can" be fussy about a loaded bullet OAL. Some run 38's with no problems and others like the longer OAL of the 357. I found out the hard way. The 92 I had spit out about every 3rd round if I tried to run it fast. ...slow it worked like a champ. 92's that have been tuned "usually" won't have that problem.

  I shoot 125gr TCFP ( Missouri Bullet Company) in 38 brass. I use Titegroup (TG)  powder and Federal primers. Why TG; because it isn't case or temp sensitive. And at Minimum loading recommendations I can get 2333 rounds per 1 lb bottle of TG, although I load below the recommended minimum, so I get a "few" extra. And my loads take down any knockdown target so far.

  IF you're going to load 357 brass, crimp it in the crimp groove for your 92. If it spits out your loads in 38 brass, load it out longer to what Sedalia Dave recommended.

  BTW, you'll really like the Smoke Wagons.

[Michael Ricochet]

Thanks Whiskers! I know it's a process. No two guns are the same.

 

Ricochet

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I shoot 105 truncated cone bullets.

Why?

I could give a long dissertation about recoil impulse and on target recovery of 105 vs 125 vs 145, but honestly 105s were $4.00 a box cheaper than 125s.

And so a decision was made.

I load them at 1.50 length, which means pretty much crimping in the lube groove.

But they feed and cycle flawlessly in my 73 and in Painted Ladies Marlin.

I generally load W231/ HP38 in a mid point charge.

I use the exact same powder charge for rifle, pistol and 158 gr knockdown rounds.

I'll use whatever primers I find in stock.

Winchester, Federal, Remington, CCI, S&B, Tula...

Regular, magnum, match...

Don't really care; have never seen any difference of note.

I prefer Remington and S&B primers only for the fact that (to me) they seem to load easier on my press.

 

I guess in other words, find some components and put together a basic middle of road round.  Find the length your rifle feeds best with and load em up. 

Loading for cowboy does not require a precise array of matched components.

Using good quality components and following a decent loading manual will result in pretty satisfactory rounds.

 

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

I shoot 125gr truncated cone bullets and Red Dot powder using the same load in both rifles and pistols.  Lots of other powders work well also, Clays, Titegroup, and such.

 

Blackfoot

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I just started loading for .38 spl, 125 grain TCB or RNFP with Tite-Group powder. I use the same load for pistols and rifle. SmokeWagons or a Colt and a Cattleman, a 73 Commanchero and a Uberti 66.

[Silver Creek Jack]

I shoot 125 gr. RNFP in my pistols loaded with a near minimum charge of trailboss,when I shot a 357/38- 92 Rossi I used the same load and what ever primers I had on hand and almost never had a problem. Almost every guy I talk to has a different opinion on reloading,what works or what sucks, heck,thats what makes it fun! Good luck! SCJ

[Michael Ricochet]

Thanks pards! Looks like a wide variety - which is expected.

 

Ricochet

[Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER]

Ricochet,

 

I have loaded all over the spectrum.  105tc, 120rnfp, 125tc,130rnfp,140tc,148wc (for pistols only) and 158rnfp.  All of them worked relatively well.  I settled on 125s for price and availability.  I would use 105s if they were cheaper or more common around here.

 

For powders I have used Clays, it was clean in the shotgun but dirty in the rifle and pistols and I found it to be temp sensitive.  WST was clean in the rifle and pistol but dirty in the shotgun, and metered very well in my Lee Loadmaster.  I had good results with Solo 1000.  But I now use Promo (kind of a generic Red Dot).  It is clean and relatively inexpensive.

 

I have used whatever primers were available. Win, Rem, Fed, and CCI.  The only problem I had was with the CCI, but not because they were hard.  Their height was inconsistent so even though my loader was seating them to the same depth some were not fully seated.  When I double checked them with a hand primer the misfires went away.

 

These are just my unscientific observations.  I know others have had different results.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Smoke

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Get some sample packs of different bullet weights to try.

Stay with TC or RNFP shape.

Hard to beat Unique  or WW231/HP-38 for powder.

Make sure you use a firm roll crimp.

PM me if you want load info-

OLG

 

 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

A few years ago, the 125 grain bullets were by far the most popular.  More recently many have gone with 105 to 110 grain bullets to reduce recoil and sometimes reduce price.  There isn't much difference in felt recoil, but some folks prefer one or the other.

 

The coated bullets are nice because they are so clean, but not really needed since we shoot relatively low velocities.  So I like them but don't believe they are worth the extra cost.

 

As noted, your 92 will most likely need a little longer cartridge to be fully reliable - but if you are fortunate, you may have one of the rare rifles that like regular 38 Specials.

 

By far the most popular powders are the faster powders such as Clays, Solo 1000, Red Doc/Promo, even good ol' Bullseye and similar powders.  I've tried all of those and about 10 more.  I used Trail Boss with good results but found it was more expensive and a little dirtier for the brass.  Not a big deal, but. . .  And it can be harder to find.

 

TiteGroup is very nice but it is a louder powder and normally has a sharper felt recoil.  Plus some powder measures (such as mine) are reliable with the lighter loads needed for TG.  So I didn't like it but several friends love it as they like just a bit more recoil and find it the loads to be extremely consistent and accurate.

 

You can sometimes find a combination with not as sharp of recoil with a little slower powders such as Unique and similar speed powders, but most do not use those.  (Contact Lumpy for his formula as it is a good one and he can send you a private message.)

 

In general, the minimum listed loads are dirtier and harder to have consistency.  Most of us find that a load just a little below middle or even mid-range work the best.

 

I find that it is much easier to use the same powder weight for rifle and pistol.  The little extra length for the rifle should not matter unless you go with the lightest load - which normally isn't as good anyway.

 

That way, you only have to adjust the cartridge length and not mess with the powder change.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Just my 2 cents worth here.

I use two different weights --- a 147 truncated cone for the rifle and a 125 flat point for the pistol. Federal magnum primers in them and Titegroup is my go to powder. Titegroup is advertised as being for "low charge weight" rounds, is not temperature sensitive (especially with the magnum primers) and is not position sensitive either. It meters well and consistently out of my Dillon 550 powder measure. It is a little dirtier than some other powders and the brass out of the rifle can be really hot. Plus it appeals to my frugal side (polite term for cheap) as I get about 2170 rounds per pound.

Found a load my rifle liked (shot marlins then, now I shoot a '73) at 1.5 OAL and use the same powder charge for both (my pistols, OMV, don't really care what I run through them). Load is out of the book as I had never shot really light loads before.

No crimp groove on the rifle bullets just a firm roll crimp into the bullet side and into the crimp groove for the pistols.

I can use the rifle rounds for knockdowns in the pistols and the pistol rounds run fine in the rifle if I run a little short.

Yes Titegroup is a little louder and the recoil is somewhat snappier than say Clays but that is how I fool my pards into thinking I am using heavier loads

Besides the recoil gives a more immediate feedback and helps my rhythm on the pistols.

All the above is what I have been using since 2007 and have never had a really good reason to change

YMMV

Regards

 

  

 

Gateway Kid

 

 

 

 

 

[Charlie Whiskers]

Marauder said,

 

"The coated bullets are nice because they are so clean, but not really needed since we shoot relatively low velocities.  So I like them but don't believe they are worth the extra cost."

 

  I was sent sample packs of 57 coated 105gr TCFP  bullets and  53 105 TCFP lead bullets when I ordered some 125 TCFP lead ones. I had some once fired brass and loaded them up to see how the recoil in my pistols would differ. I use 125gr TCFP lead bullets in rifle and pistols. They work very well in both with my Titegroup loads. I tried the coated 105's in my pistols and out of 10 rounds I had 1 that didn't back the primers out. The lead ones didn't back any out. So now the coated ones will live in my 73 rifle. Your mileage may vary using them and more power to you if they do.

[Noz]

17 hours ago, Michael Ricochet said:

Ok I'll buy that.

 

Powder Valley has Trail Boss 4lbs for ~$115 no Federal primers however I just checked my inventory and I have 1500 CCI small pistol primers and a pound of W231 so that'll get me started just need to order me some projectiles...

 

oh yeah I'll also need the guns :-)

Be aware that a 1lb bottle of Trail boss has 9 ounces in it.

 

 

 

 

I just finished loading over 1000 38 specials. Some for back yard and some for match. Used 105 gr coated, 125 gr  Waimea uncoated(a really nice bullet to handle), 125 gr coated and they all loaded well. If you have an automatic bullet feeder I'd say go with the 105s, if not those little buggers are difficult to load when you feed by hand.

[Bart Solo]

As to the coated bullets v. lead bullets discussion.   I used the lead bullets for years and had no insurmountable problems.  I tried the coated bullets a few years ago and decided to go to them exclusively for 2 reasons.  First, they are easier to work with on the press.  They don't have a lube ring that is a source of trouble both during manufacture and later at the range. My press just runs better with the coated bullets.  Second, and more importantly,  they expose you to far less lead in the loading and handling process.  For me that  is important given the number of rounds we handle each year.   Of course, that is my experience as an average reloader.   A lot of the guys posting here are high volume reloaders and they have their processes down to a science.  

[Three Foot Johnson]

Everything's been covered.
105's and 125's are the most popular for this game.
Rossi M92 .357's will normally feed standard length .38's just fine (1.55").
Nothing wrong with CCI primers. I've always been of the mind that if your guns are "tuned" to the point where they are unreliable with some brands of primers, you have a gun problem, not a primer problem.
*Sometimes* the light 105 grain bullets combined with light powder charges won't reliably knock plates down or knock paddles off the Texas Star. Myself, I use 125, 140, or 147 grainers in my .38's. Our late pard, Poverty Bill, used 158 grainers.
Lots of suitable powders, and at the distances we shoot, it really doesn't matter if you can't find what you want and have to switch powder to a new load. Really, it's not going to effectively change the point of impact on a target 15 or 20 feet away.
Bullseye

Titewad
Red Dot

Promo

W231

Titegroup

Unique

American Select

Clays

Clay Dot

Trailboss

Solo 1000

HP38

AA #2

AA #5

700X

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

MR,

Tried several times to send you a PM but was not able.  .

You thread has gotten some great suggestions and I will not stray to much from those, but will give some comments.  

I use Clays powder with burn rate of 60, but if you choose powder of 58 to 78, you are probably fine, giving some testing to tailor to your satisfaction.  I personally do not like TightGroup due to a "crack" my ears seems to be sensitive to, perhaps my imagination, but TMS (that my story) .  Trail Boss did not perform well for me unless I took charge to level I felt less comfortable with as duelist...again TMS.  I like to have OACL at 1.460"  to slightly above.  All bullets sized at .358 diameter.  I make initial OACL setting based on on the 105 gr bullet (metal color) that I like for pistol (but good in '73 rifle also), then let other bullet weights fall where they do with that setting. For Sassy's rifle and pistol, I load a crimson color 125 gr, and I like 135 and 147s (coral color) for rifle or pistol KDs.  My vote also goes to Federal primers, favoring the GM200M when I have them.

Currently my bullet choice is Cimarron's HI-TEK super coat bullets,, again all sized at .358.  www.cimarronbullets.com  Although Cimarron is my choice, there are so many good choices out there, many already mentioned.

Good luck.

[Michael Ricochet]

3 hours ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

MR,

Tried several times to send you a PM but was not able.  .

 

Hmmm, not sure why that is. My PM folder is nearly empty. However, thank you for trying and for posting your information here. I appreciate all the info that everyone has provided. Just need to get some bullets and start reloading!

 

Ricochet