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Grouchy Spike

7 Round magazine loads in the 1911 in Wild Bunch!

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On ‎8‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 9:43 AM, Cowboy Junky said:

Changing the mag capacity isn't going to do anything to help WB IMO. I never understood the big push for it. It will take longer to pick up brass and it will be more confusing for people that don't shoot it often but do shoot cowboy. I know many will jump on me for that but as an RO I see folks miscounting on more simple 5 shot scenarios so when you start doing 5, 6 & 7 rifle and then 7 pistol (or less?) you will create a situation that's not worth 2 extra rounds just to fill the void of the magazine. 

 

 

I have to agree.  People that do not regularly shoot WB have trouble with just the differences in gun handling.  However, being the very good stage writer that you are, you know that we can help round counts with the way the stage is written.  As we shoot a 2-3-3-2 sweep with two pistols with five round each, a similar stage with 3-4-4-3 sweep will help with the 7 round mags.  Good stage writing helps a lot of problems.  I can also see 14 and 21 round pistol stages instead of 15 and 20 round stages, so maybe no big deal on brass.  WB is a lot of extra work on brass pickup anyway. 

 

I think most that shoot WB are just looking another way to pull the trigger some more anyway, so the mag count is not going to matter much.  Guess we'll see how this works out.  Should be interesting.

 

See you on the range soon.

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So, it finally ain't "cowboy shooting with a 1911!"  Frankly, if you ain't gonna shoot WB due to some reason other'n mag capacity, this doesn't affect you, and comments to that affect are simply of no consequence.   I don't see WB as taking anything "away" from cowboy action.  In fact, IMO, it's simply another gun game, using similar long guns.  The 1911 is as much an iconic gun as the Colt Peacemaker.

 

From the sound of some responses, it makes me wonder if some folks also don't complain that they can use their .38/.357 lever rifle in NRA Small Bore Leveraction Silhouette matches. 

 

Excuses as to WHY one doesn't play, are just that; excuses.  I survived for 30+ years shooting cowboy action without the acquisition, or even feeling deprived without the possession of an 1897 Winchester pump shotgun.  My 870 is a much better pump, and identical in operation to the ones I had to qualify with, and regularly handle in police duties.  I simply didn't WANT one.   It wasn't required for cowboy action, and again, frankly IMNSHO, not well suited to cowboy action to begin with.

 

Along comes WB, a game designed around a handgun I'm familiar with, own a few, albeit, with an odd twist, limited to 5 rounds in the mag.  Surely not I said to myself.  But, yes, the rules were quite clear.  They were also quite clear regarding the type and gauge of shotgun, and style and caliber of rifle.  I asked if an Auto 5 shotgun could be substituted for the 1897.  I'd always been intrigued by the Auto 5... here's an good excuse to get one.  The answer was "no."  But, I didn't need the attention by publicly haranguing the Rules Committee about their obvious lack of foresight by including this fine arm in the very short acceptable list.  Afterall, you can stoke up the mdl 1897 and blast away at targets without the 2-by-2 silliness of cowboy action!  At least they got that RIGHT from the very beginning!  Now that the mdl 12 is approved, the Auto 5 is simply a matter of time!  I can wait!  Eventually the Rules Committee with see the light... as I need an excuse to buy one..

 

If you play no gun games other than cowboy, okay, so be it.  WB is no skin off your nose.  If like many others, you do play other gun games, surely you don't expect those games to allow your cowboy guns!  Yeah, some can be played with your cowboy guns, I've shot a 3-gun match with mine... I sure paid for the fun in misses & penalties tho!  Even shot Skeet with my coach gun... and my longer barreled side-by-side... Loads of fun... A few funny looks, and some of disdain, after all, it ain't a Citori, or Perrazzi.   Didn't hurt me.  Especially when scores were read!  It would be interesting to see how many folks think it would be a good idea to use an 1895 Winchester in a "Vintage Military Rifle Match".

 

As a final comment, rules are rules.  Several changes in cowboy action rules have NOT been for the betterment of the game.  Some have actually not been in the best interests of safety.  I would certainly hate for that to happen to WB.  And while I'd love to have a good excuse to buy an Auto 5, if that change were to lead to including other shotguns, long guns and pistols, I'm all for leaving it alone.  Inclusiveness is not necessarily always a good goal.  30+ categories should be proof enough of that!  Matches that have little to do with target shooting ability and simply reward raw speed are also not necessarily a good thing, in and of itself.  I still enjoy shooting cowboy action.  I learned a LONG time ago, that competing against oneself is the greatest form of competition there is, whether one finds oneself in the thick of the running, or somewhere near the bottom, any measurement of how one does is important...   Whether one shoots for score and "X" count or ticks on a clock.   A sport that measures how you do against others with very few differences in equipment can be eye-opening.  If you refuse to buy into the game on account of a philosophical difference in caliber or gauge, it's your loss.

 

(Oh yeah, I now have 3 1897s)!

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Well Griff you obviously miss the point being made by most who have stopped playing, or will not play what is now being called Wild Bunch.  What they are complaining about is the fact that they were playing Wild Bunch, then the game got hijacked and changed to something different.  When they went to the meeting to try and get things worked out they were told "this is how it is going to be from now on, if you don't like it, tough".  They then voted with their feet and quit. 

 

Now people are asking how to increase the participation in Wild Bunch, the people who left are telling what to do; however the same mindset seems to rule, and until that changes the participation will not change.  It may even decrease as many clubs are growing tired of having to support something that is not well attended, and does not generate income.

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Tracker,  I do get that.  What I observed before the setting of rules by SASS was a wide variation in both rules and allowable arms, with NO consistency from one club to the next.  Post publication of SASS WB rules, what I find are a set of rules that can be applied across the nation, with no ambiguous interpretations necessary.  I can sign up for a WB match and know what to expect.  I'll be competing with folks that will be competing under the same set of conditions, from arms to ammo.  As a match adminstrator, I don't need to worry about having ROs qualified for 10 different handguns, with different manual of arms and safe conditions.  I find that more important than my few wishes for changes.  Far more important.  The old adage, you can please some of the people some of the time... (& the rest), applies.  However, I do expect changes to occur, slowly, after careful consideration.  What we have now, is a solid base, a framework to build on.  

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If you say so Griff.  There are just too many that do not see it that way, and those are the shooters that need to be listened to. 

 

 

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WB was fun as a "run what you brung" side match, a lot of different firearms, and it was just a side match. For me, when WB was made a stand alone competition it lost its allure, and the cool old guns are just sitting in the safe. The fun factor just does not cut it for me, rules are just too stringent. 

 

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1 hour ago, Assassin said:

WB was fun as a "run what you brung" side match, a lot of different firearms, and it was just a side match. For me, when WB was made a stand alone competition it lost its allure, and the cool old guns are just sitting in the safe. The fun factor just does not cut it for me, rules are just too stringent. 

 

Why did you stop "run what you brung" side matches? 

 

If its only a side match, why weren't they continued despite SASS forming Wild Bunch Action Shooting?  

 

Was it a problem with a copyrighted name of Wild Bunch?

 

Why not change the name of 'run what you brung' and continue to play?

 

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2 hours ago, Griff said:

Tracker,  I do get that.  What I observed before the setting of rules by SASS was a wide variation in both rules and allowable arms, with NO consistency from one club to the next.  Post publication of SASS WB rules, what I find are a set of rules that can be applied across the nation, with no ambiguous interpretations necessary.  I can sign up for a WB match and know what to expect.  I'll be competing with folks that will be competing under the same set of conditions, from arms to ammo.  As a match adminstrator, I don't need to worry about having ROs qualified for 10 different handguns, with different manual of arms and safe conditions.  I find that more important than my few wishes for changes.  Far more important.  The old adage, you can please some of the people some of the time... (& the rest), applies.  However, I do expect changes to occur, slowly, after careful consideration.  What we have now, is a solid base, a framework to build on.  

I don't think it was that wide, besides why did they (WB committee) not work with that?  No it came to 1911 only and only large bore.  To me it seemed as if something fun and interesting was taken and then someone who just did not like small to mid bore just did what they wanted.

 

I can not help but think of some of the old interesting guns that some companies might have tooled up.

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27 minutes ago, LostVaquero said:

To me it seemed as if something fun and interesting was taken.....

 

Why could you not continue to play 'run what you brung' or whatever was your format?

 

Did SASS order your club to stop this game, or stop calling it Wild Bunch?

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9 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

Why did you stop "run what you brung" side matches? 

 

If its only a side match, why weren't they continued despite SASS forming Wild Bunch Action Shooting?  

 

Was it a problem with a copyrighted name of Wild Bunch?

 

Why not change the name of 'run what you brung' and continue to play?

 

I believe folks just didn't want to fight SASS and the WB rules committee and just decided to not hold their version of WB or shoot the SASS version. Considering shooters had no say on the rules and no say on the members of the committee they were unhappy with the outcome. Sounds rather elitist doesn't it. Nothing against the WB rules committee members they are all good guys. It was just the structure that made others unhappy.

 

I own several 1911's, they are okay to shoot. Not my go to gun in a pinch. Others love them, I get that. CAS isn't limited to one specific handgun, why is WB so limited?

 

There are a hand full of WB shooters at a neighboring club, and they are hosting a state level WB match, although participation appears low good luck to them for 

putting forth an effort.

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9 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

 

Why could you not continue to play 'run what you brung' or whatever was your format?

 

Did SASS order your club to stop this game, or stop calling it Wild Bunch?

Club allows an open class so yes, but it is not official.  Yes, I equipped myself with currently required equipment to run in recognized class. 

For example you do not see 3 gun say you can only run a 9mm glock, a 223 AR, and 12g benelli.  That is how I view current wild bunch.

 

If I want to shoot say b western with schofields, instead of colts I can and still be legal.  Want to substitute a lightning rifle instead of a 92 winchester, no problem.  is it as competative maybe not but that is not the point and I have seen some go a lot faster just because they are good with some different guns.

 

With the new 7 round, more than likely rifle will go in many stages to just 7 which puts less emphasis on rifle, so less emphasis then why care if that rifle isv 32, 38, 44 or 45?  Could be av step toward opening WB up a bit more.

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I have not been playing cowboy since the beginning, but have been playing longer than SASS has been around.  SASS did not spring fully formed overnite.  And by SASS, I'm talking about Cowboy Action Shooting.  I 1st read about EOT in 1982, but it took awhile to locate someone involved with it.  Wrote letters (remember those), to the writer & Guns & Ammo magazine to find out how to contact the folks involved in putting this shoot on, NO RESPONSE.  Finally ran across a feller at the range testing loads wearing an EOT T-Shirt.

 

Said I should come out the following Sunday, all I needed was a Colt style lockwork sixgun, a side-by-side & a leveraction rifle.  All I owned at that time were .30-30 Winchester 94s.  Said those were fine as long as I used lead bullets and loaded 'em down.  

 

Well, 1985 was the year that ended.  1986 was the 1st year that Black Powder shooters were recognized, and only Cap & Ball revolvers at that.  1990 saw that replaced with Frontier Cartridge...  1993 before duelist was a recognized category... 1999 before gunfighter...   There was much demand for such categories, and others, long, long before they became recognized.  Folks showed up at their local matches and talked their LOCAL match directors into allowing them to shoot different guns, styles and demonstrated HOW they fit in the rules, maintained the safety,  It is my understanding that at the first few EOTs you could ONLY shoot a Colt, Colt-clone, or Ruger Blackhawk.  It was folks coming out the the local, monthly matches with Smith-Wesson single actions, cap & ball guns, Merlin-Hulberts that are now not looked at in askance.  Can you imagine how many times it's been asked, "... can I bring my double action revolver to shoot cowboy... I'll shoot it single action..."?   The answer, to date, has been "NO!"  But... I suspect more often than not, that negative answer has been followed by, "...I might see my way to loan you a SA for the match..." 

 

I respectfully suggest that instead of grousing about the rules as they exist on the Wire, that you assist your club in forming a WB clan, or begin showing up at your local MONTHLY, WB match all prepared to play the SASS version, but politely ask your WB Match Director, who you probably already know, knows you, to demonstrate how your #$%@% pre-WWI semi-auto can  be loaded, checked, staged, grounded, etc. just like the 1911... if he(she), is like most match directors I've met, if time permits they'll bend over backwards to allow you that opportunity.  If they say, "... after the match...", smile, thank them and ponce on 'em as soon as the last shot is downrange.   

 

It would have surprised me no end, if the WB Rules had shown up with such open-endedness, (is that a word?), as seems to be demanded.  If it had, I'd probably have never bothered to attended the RO class for WB,  I ain't the dimmest bulb on the tree, but don't throw how to operate even 2 or 3 new guns at me at the same time.  And ROs need to understand the operation and functioning of ANY firearm which might be carried to the line.

 

I've said my piece, ruffled enough feathers, and HOPE I've made my point well enough.

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You are still missing the point that the WB rules could have shown up with the open category.  They hijacked an established game, severely altered that game, and alienated those that had been playing for years.  Now WB is moaning about the small attendance, and asking how to get more people involved.  They shot themselves in the foot, and they refuse to admit that they made poor choices, and refuse to do what is asked to fix the problems. 

 

Saying that anything can be done at a local match does nothing to fix the problems.  They need to be addressed for the State and above level matches.  People will not play one game at home, then have to totally change up what they do to attend a State or above match.

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Wild Bunch is part of SASS, and we all want SASS to survive and prosper.

What can you do to support Wild Bunch so that it also prospers?

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Tracker, I'll say it again, I ain't missing the point.  But, I ain't EVER known this bunch to do anything that wasn't built up slowly from the simplest of formats.  And that observation is built on 30+ years of opened eyes.  And I've seen them tackle bigger issues than this'n.  Remember mounted shooting?  I remember it from before it was an organized concept... I remember using live ammo... and am SURE as hell glad that didn't go very far!  And would still be playing that game if the little lady of the house hadn't put her foot down!  (And, if truth be told, I bounced as well as I did even 25 years ago)! :blush:

 

Any one involved in shooting sports, especially from the organizing side of things has had their feathers ruffled, probably more'n once!  I've butted heads with more than one member of the Wild Bunch, over a variety of issues, I still respect and honor their opinions, even ones I disagree with.  Gads, I HATE shooting Frontiersman because I have to do it "duelist" style.  But, I love my 1851s, so I'll do it their way... Maybe when I'm a Grand Patron Frontiersman, shooting duelist won't be a requirement?  One can always hope.

 

Every change in cowboy action has come from the local club level, over a period of time, be it category or rules.  The same will be said of WB in the future.

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Personally I think it's great that WB shooters can now load 7 rounds in there 1911 style pistols.

I thought it odd that they couldn't and wondered why if only 5 rounds why not let those with S&W Model 10's and other revolvers play too. They were in the movie as well...the model 10's were supposed to be S&W .38 Hand Ejectors to be PC (period correct). - This is me thinking out loud. I am not insinuating anything or asking for any dispensation.

 

Anyway, I think the new rule is great. More fun for those that shoot Wild Bunch.

 

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Good thread to be moved to the FAQ forum ;)

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OK, I'll reply again...

 

I have shot WB ONE TIME.

 

Not for lack of anything other than scarcity of WB in my area although I ave always had an interest in shooting WB. It's a gun game and looked FUN.

 

And guess what? It IS fun! No need to over think it. Just enjoy it.

 

I have no beef with anything WB nor any reason to complain about anything WB.

 

The 5 shot mag rule originally left me a bit perplexed, but whatever. Now the rule has changed, from an almost outsider to someone who will be shooting more WB more now (but not because of the rule change but because it is a gun game) it only makes sense to load 7 in a 1911 mag. Why? Just because it was meant to be that way. I am sure JMB is resting easier now, btw. ;). Maybe this will lend itself to even more shooting on a stage? I hope so.

 

Now, if IDPA would just allow 17 rounds in a G17 mag like Gaston intended...

 

:D

 

 

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First I want to say I have been shooting wild bunch for many, many, many years.   I have more fun shooting the wild bunch matches than cowboy action shooting.   It doesn't matter to me if we go to 7 in a mag or not, I haven't ever heard of anyone complaining on having just 5 in a mag in my neck of the woods.  I don't mind 5 at all.   I don't think limiting the mag to 5 is the reason we don't have more shooters in my opinion,  it is all about the $$$$, time and other issues. 

 

So here is my opinion on how to expand wild bunch to boost participation rates:

 

1. Have a 3 stage mini match after your regular local matches, you can have this free of charge or charge $5.00 or nominal fee.  

 

2. Allow shooters in wild bunch matches to use their main match CAS rifles ( the price of buying a new wb rifle, shotgun to me is the biggest hurdle to getting more wild bunch shooters)

 

3. Allow shooters to use double barrels or any main match CAS shotgun (I know some people would like to be able to shoot a double barrel even if it was slower, price of buying new guns are issues for some)

 

4. I'm going to beat this horse--  the price of buying a new wild bunch rig, shotgun, a rifle, new reloading equipment, different caliber bullets, etc.. is the biggest factor I see in getting new shooters into wild bunch.  Especially if they are not 100% sure they want to shoot it.   How to solve this?  A new category where any sass legal rifle, shotgun, caliber can be used... Open category.  Yes if you want to use a double barrel you can!!  I won't but you can.   Many people who shoot .357 don't want to buy a new rifle and reloading equipment on a sport they might not like.  

 

5. Change or eliminate the power factor rules as they are now to attract new shooters.  ie. allowing .357 rifles

 

6. If your a wild bunch shooter ask a friend to shoot a match with you who never has before.  Let them use your gear or old gear and get them hooked.

 

7. If you have a big shoot run wild bunch separate than a CAS warm up/side match so it does not have competition.  Try and recruit non-wild bunch shooters to spot misses, score, etc...  

 

8.  Offer good prizes for category winners, overall man, overall woman, belt buckles are always good for regional/state winners.  At local matches you can put every person's name in a hat and draw a winner for a cowboy movie like we do or whatever else you want to give away...like a free entry to the next wild bunch match.

 

9.  Promote Wild Bunch by having a learn to shoot wild bunch class with live fire after the class.  You can walk shooters through the procedures of WB and how to clear guns.  

 

10.  The biggest rule that I hear the most complaints about is about not being able to make up shotgun target misses.  I see most shooters carry around 6 extra shotgun shells on slides.  If you hit a target and it doesn't go down it ticks many shooters off that they can't reload when they have the extra ammo on them.  I personally think this rule is the easiest to fix and will make people happy.  It would make me happier especially after you hit one of those hard to knock down old sticky targets and doesn't go down after a straight on hit. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Our club has a stand alone wb match, that being said we allow open class, one lady brings out very different guns to play, she has used a Thompson, a luger etc. Fun to watch and everyone looks in her cart to see what she brings out next. Talk to your match director and see if you can shoot what you got just for fun not for prizes. 

Rafe

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I've recruited a fellow Cowboy to Wild Bunch. He expressed interest in shooting Wild Bunch but didn't have a 1911. I let him shoot my main match pistol and supplied his ammo while I shot my backup. He shoots Wild Bunch regularly now.

 

We let folks run their regular cowboy rifle at local matches to try it out. Most of us will do whatever we can to facilitate new shooters becoming involved.

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While I am more than able to take the heat from those who are unhappy with the WBAS rules perhaps it might be helpful (but will not change any minds) to list some of the REQUIREMENTS that were given me by the Wild Bunch. Specifically to me by The Judge, The General and Coyote in behalf of the Wild Bunch.

#1. Full size steel 1911 in 45ACP

#2. Big bore category. Rifle must be 40 caliber or larger.

#3. Pump shotgun of the period in 12 Gauge.

Those were the requirements I had to write the rules around. The Committee has continued to do that and will continue to follow the guiding principles we were given.   (actually there wasn't a committee at the beginning. Only me.)   FIRE AWAY !!!!

 

Remember local clubs can have open categories, etc. just like in CAS.

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Thanks for the explanation!

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I strongly suspected as much... ;)

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On 8/27/2017 at 10:48 PM, Putnam Under said:

Yes I  think the rifle requirement is the main hold back.

 

Yep, they lost a fair amount of SASS shooters, don't know how many would return if changed to .38 158gr and meet the power factor.

On 9/4/2017 at 11:33 AM, Tracker Jack Daniels, 58780 said:

Saying that anything can be done at a local match does nothing to fix the problems.  They need to be addressed for the State and above level matches.  People will not play one game at home, then have to totally change up what they do to attend a State or above match.

Yep, we had shooters that wanted to play, but they also wanted to shoot when on the road, they already had two rifles in 38/357. They were willing to forego any overall awards and would be competing in an Open category shooting only against each other. FWIW our WB matches are stand alone matches with stages geared just for WB, and we do have an Open category. Speaking of geared our Long Hunter holsters worked fine, just need a thinner belt and four mag holders.;) The 7 round mag was something I never heard a complaint over.........the only problem is now I have to invent new sweeps and stages for 7, 14 and 21:o Or.........it could be a fun problem:wacko::D

 

Don't get me wrong, I applaud Happy Jack and the others that worked hard to come up with a set of rules that would insure the same standard for WB matches no matter where you go. Don't fergit they said "never" to the Win Model 12.;) Good Luck:)

 

Jefro:ph34r:Relax-Enjoy

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5 hours ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

While I am more than able to take the heat from those who are unhappy with the WBAS rules perhaps it might be helpful (but will not change any minds) to list some of the REQUIREMENTS that were given me by the Wild Bunch. Specifically to me by The Judge, The General and Coyote in behalf of the Wild Bunch.

#1. Full size steel 1911 in 45ACP

#2. Big bore category. Rifle must be 40 caliber or larger.

#3. Pump shotgun of the period in 12 Gauge.

Those were the requirements I had to write the rules around. The Committee has continued to do that and will continue to follow the guiding principles we were given.   (actually there wasn't a committee at the beginning. Only me.)   FIRE AWAY !!!!

 

Remember local clubs can have open categories, etc. just like in CAS.

I think everybody kind of gets it that you took the heat for the Wild Bunch's arbitrariness.  But that doesn't make the rules OK, just arbitrary.  But, as has been said a million times, their game, their rules.

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On 4 September 2017 at 11:44 PM, ethan callahan said:

First I want to say I have been shooting wild bunch for many, many, many years.   I have more fun shooting the wild bunch matches than cowboy action shooting.   It doesn't matter to me if we go to 7 in a mag or not, I haven't ever heard of anyone complaining on having just 5 in a mag in my neck of the woods.  I don't mind 5 at all.   I don't think limiting the mag to 5 is the reason we don't have more shooters in my opinion,  it is all about the $$$$, time and other issues. 

 

So here is my opinion on how to expand wild bunch to boost participation rates:

 

1. Have a 3 stage mini match after your regular local matches, you can have this free of charge or charge $5.00 or nominal fee.  

 

2. Allow shooters in wild bunch matches to use their main match CAS rifles ( the price of buying a new wb rifle, shotgun to me is the biggest hurdle to getting more wild bunch shooters)

 

3. Allow shooters to use double barrels or any main match CAS shotgun (I know some people would like to be able to shoot a double barrel even if it was slower, price of buying new guns are issues for some)

 

4. I'm going to beat this horse--  the price of buying a new wild bunch rig, shotgun, a rifle, new reloading equipment, different caliber bullets, etc.. is the biggest factor I see in getting new shooters into wild bunch.  Especially if they are not 100% sure they want to shoot it.   How to solve this?  A new category where any sass legal rifle, shotgun, caliber can be used... Open category.  Yes if you want to use a double barrel you can!!  I won't but you can.   Many people who shoot .357 don't want to buy a new rifle and reloading equipment on a sport they might not like.  

 

5. Change or eliminate the power factor rules as they are now to attract new shooters.  ie. allowing .357 rifles

 

6. If your a wild bunch shooter ask a friend to shoot a match with you who never has before.  Let them use your gear or old gear and get them hooked.

 

7. If you have a big shoot run wild bunch separate than a CAS warm up/side match so it does not have competition.  Try and recruit non-wild bunch shooters to spot misses, score, etc...  

 

8.  Offer good prizes for category winners, overall man, overall woman, belt buckles are always good for regional/state winners.  At local matches you can put every person's name in a hat and draw a winner for a cowboy movie like we do or whatever else you want to give away...like a free entry to the next wild bunch match.

 

9.  Promote Wild Bunch by having a learn to shoot wild bunch class with live fire after the class.  You can walk shooters through the procedures of WB and how to clear guns.  

 

10.  The biggest rule that I hear the most complaints about is about not being able to make up shotgun target misses.  I see most shooters carry around 6 extra shotgun shells on slides.  If you hit a target and it doesn't go down it ticks many shooters off that they can't reload when they have the extra ammo on them.  I personally think this rule is the easiest to fix and will make people happy.  It would make me happier especially after you hit one of those hard to knock down old sticky targets and doesn't go down after a straight on hit. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

With all those Ethan, may as well give wild bunch away altogether, and just use your 1911 in place of you single action cowboy pistols.

im afraid that doesn't do anything for me and probably many others. 

Tell me, have you or do you shoot IPSC? Do you think if we came up with rule changes similar to what you are advocating they would accept them too.?

The WB have laid down certain specs that rules can be worked around, if we adopted all sorts of rule changes to all the other shooting disciplines in the name of, lets gets more interested, or because they can't afford another gun or whatever other reason is just ludicrous imho. I think in life we play what we can pay, otherwise we can't play.

Thats life.

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On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 10:34 PM, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

DDD;

I ani't got no Lead Bullet loads fer my 1911 ,,,,, Nor any Smokeless loads fer da 16 ga.. ,,,,,,,,,,

And I'm planning on shooting CAS south of the line in Montana,,,,, Seems that they got matches every week-end in Sept ...

I might just plan on shooting there more often ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Don't worry, you can shoot the evil black in your 16 SxS and if you need to I can provide you with both a 1911 and cast lead bullets. I expect to see you on the 30th September

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