What type of BONUS Targets does your Club use?

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

While making a post to Chili Pepper Jack's " Dressed for the Part " thread,

 

 

 

I remember my first time shooting where there were BONUS shotgun KD's, and I began to wonder what type of BONUS targets do other Clubs use.

I've seen videos of poppers, and the typical KD's; however, just wondering what other type of interesting BONUS scenarios are being used.

Also, does any Club use the knife, as I mentioned in my thread post response above, and if so, in what manner.

[Chili Pepper Jack]

We had one at my very first shoot, it was some big guy made out of rebar I think and it had a clay in the center for a heart. Your first shot after your line was at it. If I remember it had something to due with him being a cheat at cards. We also have poppers, and stages that have KD's for the rifle and pistols if you hit them all no shotgun!!! Not a real Bonus but it helps keeping that shotgun out of my hands!!!

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

5 minutes ago, Chili Pepper Jack said:

We had one at my very first shoot, it was some big guy made out of rebar I think and it had a clay in the center for a heart. Your first shot after your line was at it. If I remember it had something to due with him being a cheat at cards. {remaining text removed only to conserve space}

 

Jack:

    Next time they use the "big guy", can you take a pic and post it here?

    That's the unusual type of BONUS target I was looking for.

[Chili Pepper Jack]

2 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

Jack:

    Next time they use the "big guy", can you take a pic and post it here?

    That's the unusual type of BONUS target I was looking for.

Will do! I help with setup every month so I will see if I can get one soon for you. CPT. Bill Burt might have a pic of it he the man at our club. I haven't seen the thing after that day but it could be out back or something. 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Bonuses are/ can be cool.

BUT after the 1st person attempts and accomplishes it - it is no longer a "Bonus" but a mandatory item to remain even in the running.

 

And bonuses should never be an item/ task that is not equally available to every person.

Too often, they become home field advantage items - where local shooters are better equipped or practiced for an item not commonly encountered by most participants.

 

And the whole concept of "Bonus" scoring serves only to confuse scorekeepers and insert errors.

Subtracting bonuses - adding penalties - just score the match correctly.

If you want someone to do something - make it a part of the stage.

If they "Miss" the knife throw - it is a miss.

[Ramblin Gambler]

I guess ours is kind of boring.  We just have a buzzard that's set out beyond the rifle targets and you usually have to hit it with a pistol.  We've done poppers before, but they weren't really bonuses.  If you didn't hit the clay, you had to shoot another shotgun target. 

[Chili Pepper Jack]

When we have poppers if you miss nothing happens you just don't get the bonuses. I think they do 5 sec. for each hit on a popper, like Creeker was saying if people hit and you don't that could be it if you are close in times with them. But I do think that adds to it IMHO I like it puts more pressure to get the hits. Don't get me wrong I almost NEVER hit the poppers and the people that I am competitive with almost always hit them. Now that I think about it I am against them!!!!! LOL 

[Shooting Bull]

I remember two from years ago that I enjoyed. 

 

#1 10 shot continuous Nevada Sweep on four targets with rifle.  Last shot could be placed on target #4 or, for a five second bonus, could be placed on a very small rabbit target set out at a distance.  A miss on the rabbit did not get counted as a miss.

 

#2  Texas Star with pistols.  If you cleaned the star with your first five shots it was a five second bonus.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

9 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

I guess ours is kind of boring.  We just have a buzzard that's set out beyond the rifle targets and you usually have to hit it with a pistol.  We've done poppers before, but they weren't really bonuses.  If you didn't hit the clay, you had to shoot another shotgun target. 

 

Rambl'in Gambler:

    OK so the poppers may be , but I like that Buzzard thing-a-ma-jig.

[Buckaroo Bubba]

I absolutely hate Bonus targets for Time. You pretty much put the Winner of the match on the line with one shot.

 

For example, a few years back. I won a local match. I hit the bonus target for a 10 second bonus, the guy in 2nd missed it... I only won that match because I hit the bonus target. It felt tainted to me. I had won a couple others that year as well, so I knew I could do it but that one match never felt right.

 

If you look at the times between the top 10 shooters in a lot of matches 5-10 seconds is huge. I don't think it is right that one shot can make that much difference...

 

What I do like is a Bonus for a prize or something. We do this on occasion at our annual shoot. Hit the bonus get a ticket in the drawing for a prize. (we usually do this off the clock)

 

Just my two cents..

 

 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

2 minutes ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

{previous text removed only to save space}

What I do like is a Bonus for a prize or something. We do this on occasion at our annual shoot. Hit the bonus get a ticket in the drawing for a prize. (we usually do this off the clock)

 

Just my two cents..

 

 

 

Bubba:

     I was thinking more on the lines of local Club matches, which are shot more for practice and or bragging rights.

     Agreed that in a MAIN Match, it could easily be interpreted as an unfair decision maker for placement purposes.

     However, I would expect having something fun at a local shoot would make things interesting, as some have already mentioned.

     That's why I asked the question, to everyone's thoughts of unique or challenging (think Smokestack challenging) BONUS target ideas.

     I really do like the BONUS for a prize idea.

[Shooting Bull]

5 minutes ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

I absolutely hate Bonus targets for Time. You pretty much put the Winner of the match on the line with one shot.

 

For example, a few years back. I won a local match. I hit the bonus target for a 10 second bonus, the guy in 2nd missed it... I only won that match because I hit the bonus target. It felt tainted to me. I had won a couple others that year as well, so I knew I could do it but that one match never felt right.

 

If you look at the times between the top 10 shooters in a lot of matches 5-10 seconds is huge. I don't think it is right that one shot can make that much difference...

 

What I do like is a Bonus for a prize or something. We do this on occasion at our annual shoot. Hit the bonus get a ticket in the drawing for a prize. (we usually do this off the clock)

 

Just my two cents..

 

 

 

I've heard this position many MANY times but disagree.  I'll preface by saying I only disagree if the bonus target earns you five seconds.  Your 10 second example was excessive in my opinion.  But sticking to the five second bonus, that makes it exactly the same as all other shots in the match.  How?  If you hit the bonus you gain five seconds, if you miss nothing happens.  On a regular target if you miss you lose five seconds, if you hit nothing happens.  What that means is that every single shot in the match is worth five seconds.  The only difference is whether those seconds are added to or subtracted from your time.

[Buckaroo Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

Bubba:

     I was thinking more on the lines of local Club matches, which are shot more for practice and or bragging rights.

     Agreed that in a MAIN Match, it could easily be interpreted as an unfair decision maker for placement purposes.

     However, I would expect having something fun at a local shoot would make things interesting, as some have already mentioned.

     That's why I asked the question, to everyone's thoughts of unique or challenging (think Smokestack challenging) BONUS target ideas.

     I really do like the BONUS for a prize idea.

I understand. I tend to relate everything to the local level. Sometimes that's all people shoot. It might only be practice for some but for others it's their "Main Match".

 

(I must say, I don't take this game as serious as some folks, it is fun for me but I do try to improve. So when I got to the point where I could compete to win a "local" match I felt like I obtained a goal. To me that bonus that gave me a win, kinda of tainted it, if you know what I mean).

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

I absolutely HATE bonus targets for the reasons already stated by Creeker and B B.  I haven't written a stage with a bonus for years. If you want a tough/unusual shot for something like a raffle ticket, etc. make it separate from the match stages. I have done that a few times. Used TX Stars, electrical clay throwers, etc. NOT part of the main mach stages. Like a fun side match for all.

[Buckaroo Bubba]

7 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

I've heard this position many MANY times but disagree.  I'll preface by saying I only disagree if the bonus target earns you five seconds.  Your 10 second example was excessive in my opinion.  But sticking to the five second bonus, that makes it exactly the same as all other shots in the match.  How?  If you hit the bonus you gain five seconds, if you miss nothing happens.  On a regular target if you miss you lose five seconds, if you hit nothing happens.  What that means is that every single shot in the match is worth five seconds.  The only difference is whether those seconds are added to or subtracted from your time.

I understand what you're saying. I just don't like Bonuses for time. Usually the bonus is a different smaller target, long distance, something... it is outside of the normal sequence. That's why I don't see it as the same as the others. Let alone doing some non-shooting bonus (throwing a knife, shooting an Arrow)... Just my opinion, that's all...

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

20 minutes ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

I understand. I tend to relate everything to the local level. Sometimes that's all people shoot. It might only be practice for some but for others it's their "Main Match".

 

(I must say, I don't take this game as serious as some folks, it is fun for me but I do try to improve. So when I got to the point where I could compete to win a "local" match I felt like I obtained a goal. To me that bonus that gave me a win, kinda of tainted it, if you know what I mean).

 

Bubba:

     I know what you mean....

 

9 minutes ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

I understand what you're saying. I just don't like Bonuses for time. Usually the bonus is a different smaller target, long distance, something... it is outside of the normal sequence. That's why I don't see it as the same as the others. Let alone doing some non-shooting bonus (throwing a knife, shooting an Arrow)... Just my opinion, that's all...

 

....you get to shoot arrows !! . I'm gonna have to get me a plane ticket to Ohio so's I can shoot me some arrows.

 

[Buckaroo Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

Bubba:

     I know what you mean....

 

 

....you get to shoot arrows !! . I'm gonna have to get me a plane ticket to Ohio so's I can shoot me some arrows.

 

Years ago, at the one (at the time) Non-SASS affiliated club we used to do all sorts of crazy stuff. We did shoot a bow and arrow for a bonus...

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

IMHO, Most stage writers do not have sharp enough pencils to write bonuses into a stage so that the scoring is going to be handled easily and without argument.   Scorekeepers will not care for it.  

You hardly ever see a shooting bonus target in big matches.

You NEVER see an non-shooting action for a bonus at big matches any more.   (Throwing knife, lassoing something, etc)

There's reasons for that.  

 

At small matches, you can get by with an occasional bonus target, but it is often "just one more target" and nothing special about it unless it is really hard to hit, and then pards will gripe about THAT.  If you want old-time non-shooting actions, do those before the beep.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Stump Water]

27 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

I've heard this position many MANY times but disagree.  I'll preface by saying I only disagree if the bonus target earns you five seconds.  Your 10 second example was excessive in my opinion.  But sticking to the five second bonus, that makes it exactly the same as all other shots in the match.  How?  If you hit the bonus you gain five seconds, if you miss nothing happens.  On a regular target if you miss you lose five seconds, if you hit nothing happens.  What that means is that every single shot in the match is worth five seconds.  The only difference is whether those seconds are added to or subtracted from your time.

 

Let's use your earlier example #1.  

 

After your 9th rifle shot there's ten seconds on the timer.  

 

You elect target #4 for the 10th shot.  It takes you .1 seconds to transition to the target and pull the trigger for a hit.  Now there's 10.1 seconds on the timer and score sheet.

 

You elect the far out bunny for the 10th shot. It takes you one second to transition to the target and pull the trigger for a hit.  Now there's 11 seconds on the timer, but six seconds on the score sheet.

 

You elect target #4 for the 10th shot.  It takes you .1 seconds to transition to the target and pull the trigger for a miss.  Now there's 10.1 seconds on the timer and 15.1 seconds on the score sheet.

 

You elect the far out bunny for the 10th shot. It takes you one second to transition to the target and pull the trigger for a miss.  Now there's 11 seconds on the timer and score sheet.

 

The two targets affect your time differently.  And you're inviting your shooters to point the rifle in the general direction of the far out bunny and pull the trigger because there's zero risk.

 

[Shooting Bull]

2 minutes ago, Stump Water said:

 

<SNIP>

 

The two targets affect your time differently.  And you're inviting your shooters to point the rifle in the general direction of the far out bunny and pull the trigger because there's zero risk.

 

 

 

Sure there's a risk, that's (in my opinion) the reason for having a bonus target.  But the five seconds is still consistent. If you don't get the bonus while your competitors do, you just lost five seconds.  If you miss a regular target while your competitors don't, you just lost five seconds.  You can throw in the .9 second target acquisition difference if you want, but that doesn't change the fact that each and every target in the match is worth five seconds.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

I have some targets that are 18" circles. In the match the target is just a normal shot at hit or mss target.

How ever the target has a 3" hole in the middle with a swinging target mounted behind the hole.

You shoot at the target and hit any part, it is scored as a hit.

 

If you take a little time to hit the 3" swinger, you are scored with a target hit and a bonus.

The bonus does not effect your stage score at all.

It gets you another prize drawing ticket.

 

 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I have a couple of rat targets.  Each one gets set up on a post about 7 yards out.  With the pistols, shoot the 8 rounds at the pistol targets and shoot the rats off the posts with the last two pistol shots.  Shoot the rifle and if either or both of the rats are still on the posts, load that number of rifle rounds and shoot the rats.  One rat, load one round.   Two rats, load two rounds.  With shotgun, knock down all shotgun targets and then shoot any remaining rats off posts.  The penalty is built in by having to load rifle and shotgun if you keep missing the rats.  The rats are not considered a miss unless they are still on the posts at the end of the stage.  Failing to engage rats is a procedural.

[Matthew Duncan]

Oh Great Horny Toads!

 

cant have any knife or TNT thowning on the clock.

cant shoot no more from a barrel horse.

cant scoot and run from multiple positions.

cant size and place the targets so sights are needed.

and now bonuses are frown on too?  Yankees.

 

Stationary clays.

Horizontal traveler.

Dump target fur any rounds left after Texas star.

Flyier clay activated by a KD

 

 

 

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

2 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Bonuses are/ can be cool.

BUT after the 1st person attempts and accomplishes it - it is no longer a "Bonus" but a mandatory item to remain even in the running.

 

And bonuses should never be an item/ task that is not equally available to every person.

Too often, they become home field advantage items - where local shooters are better equipped or practiced for an item not commonly encountered by most participants.

 

And the whole concept of "Bonus" scoring serves only to confuse scorekeepers and insert errors.

Subtracting bonuses - adding penalties - just score the match correctly.

If you want someone to do something - make it a part of the stage.

If they "Miss" the knife throw - it is a miss.

Amen brother!

Blackfoot

[Doc Shapiro]

5 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

I've heard this position many MANY times but disagree.  I'll preface by saying I only disagree if the bonus target earns you five seconds.  Your 10 second example was excessive in my opinion.  But sticking to the five second bonus, that makes it exactly the same as all other shots in the match.  How?  If you hit the bonus you gain five seconds, if you miss nothing happens.  On a regular target if you miss you lose five seconds, if you hit nothing happens.  What that means is that every single shot in the match is worth five seconds.  The only difference is whether those seconds are added to or subtracted from your time.

 

If you absolutely must use a bonus target (and I don't like the concept, same as Creeker), then this is the way to do it.  Make it the same value as every other target.

[Doc Shapiro]

4 hours ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

I have some targets that are 18" circles. In the match the target is just a normal shot at hit or mss target.

How ever the target has a 3" hole in the middle with a swinging target mounted behind the hole.

You shoot at the target and hit any part, it is scored as a hit.

 

If you take a little time to hit the 3" swinger, you are scored with a target hit and a bonus.

The bonus does not effect your stage score at all.

It gets you another prize drawing ticket.

 

 

 

This is an outstanding way to use a bonus shot.  Well done.

[Ripsaw]

In these here parts, we use bonus targets frequently, probably every second or third monthly match. Can be a small rifle or pistol target, or a pop up. Most of the shooters--say 75%--manage to hit the bonus. Small pistol targets are missed most often. Pop ups have been a clay bird or a soda can.  The full soda can explodes when hit right.

 

the bonus seems to be 5 seconds pretty consistently, and it applies (subtracts from) your total time for scoring purposes.  

[Dutch Coroner]

Technically, it's not a bonus but it amounts to the same thing. Club will set up the shotgun targets so it is possible to knock 4 targets down with 2 shots.  Stage is then written "knock down shotgun targets with as few rounds as possible". 

 

Only shoot twice and compared to everybody that had to shoot more than that, you got a bonus.

 

Dont care for it.

 

Dutch

[Chili Pepper Jack]

6 minutes ago, Dutch Coroner said:

Technically, it's not a bonus but it amounts to the same thing. Club will set up the shotgun targets so it is possible to knock 4 targets down with 2 shots.  Stage is then written "knock down shotgun targets with as few rounds as possible". 

 

Only shoot twice and compared to everybody that had to shoot more than that, you got a bonus.

 

Dont care for it.

 

Dutch

Our club will do this from time to time also, I like it if you slow your shots just a bit you can do it if not you are reloading. 

[Warden Callaway]

We share our range with the black powder muzzle loading group.  They have dozens of small metal targets in various shapes scattered around in the edge of the woods.

 

Sawmill Mary wrote two stages that used two of these small targets.  One was placed beside the pistol try targets and the other out past the rifle targets.  They were optional and you'd get 5 or 10 seconds bonus for hitting them but no miss if missed.  The whole idea was unanimously dreaded.  Something new. Something too difficult.   You know what?  Every one went for the bonus targets and everyone hit every target.  Most everyone watched as each person got to the bonus targets to see how they did.  Lots of bragging and jeering. But nobody wanted to do that again. 

[Chili Pepper Jack]

16 hours ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

I absolutely hate Bonus targets for Time. You pretty much put the Winner of the match on the line with one shot.

 

For example, a few years back. I won a local match. I hit the bonus target for a 10 second bonus, the guy in 2nd missed it... I only won that match because I hit the bonus target. It felt tainted to me. I had won a couple others that year as well, so I knew I could do it but that one match never felt right.

 

If you look at the times between the top 10 shooters in a lot of matches 5-10 seconds is huge. I don't think it is right that one shot can make that much difference...

 

What I do like is a Bonus for a prize or something. We do this on occasion at our annual shoot. Hit the bonus get a ticket in the drawing for a prize. (we usually do this off the clock)

 

Just my two cents..

 

 

I don't understand how you feel your win was tainted by this. Everyone had the same chance to hit or miss every target in every stage not just that bonus target. I finished lower in the overall every time we have bonus targets as poppers I have no idea why but I just miss them. I don't feel that it takes away from the people that finish in a better position then I did they hit and I missed. I had the same chance to get that bonus and didn't, can't blame them for being the better shooter that day. I think you should be proud that you out performed your competition at that shoot. 

[Buckaroo Bubba]

3 hours ago, Chili Pepper Jack said:

I don't understand how you feel your win was tainted by this. Everyone had the same chance to hit or miss every target in every stage not just that bonus target. I finished lower in the overall every time we have bonus targets as poppers I have no idea why but I just miss them. I don't feel that it takes away from the people that finish in a better position then I did they hit and I missed. I had the same chance to get that bonus and didn't, can't blame them for being the better shooter that day. I think you should be proud that you out performed your competition at that shoot. 

The way I see it is.. 98% of the matches I shoot are the same, no bonuses for time. The match I am talking about had a 10 second bonus. The shooter I beat was one of the consistent winners in the area. I understand that everyone shoots the same match but If the bonus shot didn't exist he easily beats me by say 9 seconds... He was a faster shooter for that match not including the bonus. The only reason I won that match was because I hit one shot and he missed it. Otherwise I shouldn't have won the "normal" match. That's all my point is. Winning isn't everything for me but that year it was my goal to win a local match. I won like 4 local matches that year so I felt justified that I reached my goal. But had it been the only match I would have won, it just wouldn't have felt right. Just my view, I understand everyone point.

 

Why do we need bonuses?? Unless it's for a prize, what's the point? More trouble than what it's worth in my eyes...

[Cowboy Junky]

Nothing like shooting Zombie's 'round Halloween.......lol

 

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Folks,

 

I, basically, agree with Creeker and am not fond of bonus targets..

 

However, the following is a bonus setup that I do like. If you shoot the rifle targets with your rifle and pistols, you get a bonus, regardless of misses. In other words you could miss and still get a bonus. The last time the MD did this at The Outlaws, my posse followed another posse. There were no marks on the pistol targets.  It seemed like they were calling us out.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

PS It could be considered an advantage for WBAS shooters as they frequently engage the rifle targets with their pistols.