First long range rifle best choice?

[Sierra Steve]

Figuring to try some side matches for long range rifle.  Also figurin' to get a 45-70 single shot.  So, what is a reasonable choice for a first long range rifle?  Not looking for an antique necessarily, a good reproduction is just fine; but by which maker and a copy of what?  74 Sharps, 85 Hi Wall, a rolling block?  And by whom? Perdersoli, Uberti?  Start with H&R top break? I'd like to get started by spending under $2,000 for a decent, safe rifle and reloading dies.   Also, would like option to shoot smokeless or BP cartridges.  

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Shiloh

[Al OVERA, SASS#26238 Life]

Personally, I'd stay away from the H&Rs.  Had a couple and they were iffy, at best.  Way too light, and don't lend themselves to good sights.  That said, Shiloh are Very good, but very pricey for something you won't use too often, and a set of sights will cost almost or more than the rifle.  My opinion (and it is just that), try for a Pedersoli Sharps or Hiwall.  Good guns and sometimes available used.  I use a 1885 Uberti Hiwall in 38-55 with good results.  Lee Shaver sights are a good middle of the road line.

Enjoy the recoil!!!

Al

[Three Foot Johnson]

Uberti Sharps are made by Pedersoli, so it doesn't matter which one you get. I have a couple Ubertis (.45-47 & .45-120) and a Shiloh .45-70, and the Uberti .45-70 consistently shoots slightly better than the Shiloh... go figure.

[Pulp, SASS#28319]

The H&R Buff Classic is a good rifle, but the factory sights are not SASS legal.  Not sure what it would take to put decent sights on one.

[Silver Rings SASS # 27466]

I use a Browning Hiwall 1885 in 38/55 and like it.  Same gun in 45/70 would be a good choice.

 

SR

 

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

Shiloh Sharps are very nice-love mine in .44-77-very accurate gun.

 

Pedersoli/Uberti- also very accurate guns, but could use an upgrade on the sights-good sights can easily cost $500.00

 

.45-70 is a great choice for ease of finding components and equipment and is also easier to resell if you change your mind.

 

Pedretti made one also-total piece of shite.

 

1885's by nature are generally more accurate, but less historically accurate-if that matters to you  Browning made some 1885's in .45-70 that were great guns with so so sights

 

Other calibers such as ..38-55 44-77, .44-90 .45-90 are also out there-they can be found a bit cheaper in the used guns than the .44-77 and often all components will ce available as a package deal.  $2K might not get you a Shiloh Sharps with all the goodies, but it will get you close on a nice used one.

 

 

[Zeb Gray, #36839]

A long range package for under $2000 would not include a Shiloh or C Sharps.  Lowest budget rifle would be the H&R, but now out of production & difficult to set up with good tang sights.  A Uberti Hi Wall, Pedersoli Sharps or Rolling Block with good front & tang sights will provide decent accuracy for CAS long range side matches.  With good ammo, these rifles will shoot as well as most shooters can.  Many events are won with $1000 rifles & $400 worth of sights.  If you want to get into BPCR Silhouette or Schuetzen matches, then you will want high quality, top dollar equipment. 

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

I picked up my Shiloh Sharps in .44-77 for IIRC about 1700.00.  It was used, but only lightly and undamaged by the use.  I probably have 3K in it with sights and brass and bullets and reloading equipment etc.  Still 2K may go a long way with the right seller.

[Hoss]

I had a H&R Buffalo Classic in 45-70. They are decent entry level rifles. Mine had a Smith Ladder sight on it. I shot it successfully out to 400 yds.

 

I now have a Uberti 1885 HiWall in 38-55. Excellent rifle.  You should be able to find one in 38-55 or 45-70 for $1000. Get good sights. I bought Kelley tang sights and front globe sight with sprit level. They are at tad more than similar MVA sights, but man, do they look good! and are very well made.

 

for long range you need three things

1) decent rifle

2) very good sights

3) very consistent ammo

4) shooting skills.

 

if your ammo is not consistent, you will be spinning your wheels once you get past about 150 yds. these guns shoot a rainbow trajectory. if your ammo is off by a few FPS it really effects where the bullet will land. My 38-55 base is 15 MOA @ 100 yds. at 500 Yards  I add 60 MOA.,  

 

If you are shooting real long range stuff go with 45-70. If its typical cowboy long range 2-500 yds consider a 38-55.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

What are you calling 'long range'?

Most serious LR shooters consider LR to start at 500yds.

Will you load BP or 'white'.

What is your background in loading match grade rifle ammo?

2k$ you will find a good rifle W/O sights. It's the sights that will really cost you. You do not want to go the cheap on sights.

I use MVA on both of my Shiloh's The LR Buffalo Soule and the #113 on the front.

By the time you add sights and get set up to load-Better add 1K$ to start up costs.

Will you cast your own? Buy'n them is pricey.

Start with either .45-70 or .45-90.

Where are you located in CA?

OLG

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Get a "Uberti" 1885 Highwall in .40-65 !!!

And You can do it all !!!

Put "Lee Shaver" front Globe site and Long-rang Shoule Site on it ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

[LostVaquero]

Great suggestions for single shot.  Just in case for lever rifle long range I like my Marlin cowboy 1895 in 45-70.  Pistol caliber tend to favour a 1860 Henry.

[Joe LaFives #5481]

Best bang for the buck is the Browning BPCR - either in 45-70 or 40-65.  If you check the BPCR sites you'll notice how these are VERY competitive.  I have a Shiloh and like it but it's too slow for the timed matches that we sometimes shoot. The Hi-Wall is fast and accurate.  The Browning has a better barrel than the Italian guns of the same design.

[Judge Gardner]

SHILOH with MVA sights. Don't go cheap that will cost about 3/4 of what the Good Shiloh 

[Major Crimes]

I have a Pedersoli Sharps Boss in 45-70 and love it.

The sights that came with it are pretty good and have adjustment in windage as well as range. It has a globe sight and comes with inserts.

I shoot heathen (smokeless) at the moment but want to go to BP eventually. I have only fired it to 200M at the moment and have groups that are in the X ring at that distance.

For a lever 45-70 look at the Uberti (or Pedersoli, same gun) 1886 Sporting rifle.

https://www.uberti-usa.com/1886-sporting-rifle

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-prodotto.asp/l_en/idpr_383/rifles-model-1886-lever-action-1886-sporting-rifle.html

 

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_63/rifles-1874-sharps-rifle.html

 

 

 

 

 

1886 Sporting, Hunter Lite _ Uberti.html

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

First, if you're going to shoot SASS long range site matches aren't really long range, 100 to 300 yards. Winners are usually most hits in the least amount of time....speed rifle.

 

It doesn't take a Shiloh and $700 i site. The Uberti highwall in 45-70 will be a good starting point. Around $1,000 new. Dies, brass and bullets to follow.

The rifle above will do the job with the factory sights.

 

I have a Pedersoli Sharps in 45-70. I started with the factory sights. I shot that for SASS side matches for 4 years. The highwall is aster to load in a timed event. The added a hooded front site with a spirit level. Then a Montana Vintage Arms Soule site $400 that lets me shoot out to 1,000 yards.

 

Another shooter I know bought an H&R in 38-55 and shot it in SASS and BPCR long range for 5 years.

Ike

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

An add, in my humble opinion Shiloh and C Sharps only offer cosmetic adds.. AKA nice wood and case hardening. The Pedersoli barrels will egt you the same results if the shooter does their job.

IKe

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 minute ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

An add, in my humble opinion Shiloh and C Sharps only offer cosmetic adds.. AKA nice wood and case hardening. The Pedersoli barrels will egt you the same results if the shooter does their job.

IKe

Then Ike, I guess you don't read the shooters equipment list from the top finishers in BPCR matches then. 

OLG

 

[Sedalia Dave]

For your first rifle stick with 45-70. Lots of load data if you want to shoot smokeless. Components are readily available and inexpensive compared to other more obscure calibers.

 

Get some experience before trying the other more exotic calibers. They are a lot of fun but require more work. 45-120 sounds cool but the recoil is noticeably more than 45-70. True you can shoot 45-70 rounds in a 45-120 but accuracy will suffer.

 

38-55 is fun but there is a learning curve with differing bore diameters and varying chamber dimensions.

 

If you decide to sell the rifle later, resale will be easier.

[Straight Arrow Hombre]

It really depends on what is considered "long" range in your area. If I lived in an area that had 500 yard matches or longer, I would be using a heavy sharps with set triggers. In my neck o' the woods, we typically shoot out to 200 yards and the side matches become somewhat of a speed match. Here the Browning/Winchester 1885s rule the roost. 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Then Ike, I guess you don't read the shooters equipment list from the top finishers in BPCR matches then. 

OLG

OLG, actually I do. But is it because the shooters think they can't shoot well unless its a Shiloh etc? This is for SASS side matches, you don't need a $2500 +++ rifle to shoot well in SASS short range shoots.

An H&R will compete well at SASS distances.

Ike

[Scarlett]

8 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

For your first rifle stick with 45-70. Lots of load data if you want to shoot smokeless. Components are readily available and inexpensive compared to other more obscure calibers.

 

Get some experience before trying the other more exotic calibers. They are a lot of fun but require more work. 45-120 sounds cool but the recoil is noticeably more than 45-70. True you can shoot 45-70 rounds in a 45-120 but accuracy will suffer.

 

38-55 is fun but there is a learning curve with differing bore diameters and varying chamber dimensions.

 

If you decide to sell the rifle later, resale will be easier.

I've got a 125th Anniversary Browning 1885 Hiwall in .45-70 that had been sitting in some guy's safe for 13 years!  It's so much happier being shot at every opportunity that it gets sweeter and sweeter every time I shoot it. I shoot LR at SASS matches - 100-300 yards. I've got a Marbles tang sight and globe front sight (no level). (under $2,000 and I had no work done on it - it was NIB and a shooter from the get go). About a year ago I had a little trigger work done to make it better for shooting offhand. 

 

I did have a Uberti .38-55 - determined proper bore diameter (which can vary a LOT) yet the gun was not a shooter.  If I'd been a new shooter or first time LR... that would have REALLY been frustrating!  We finally sold the gun (with full disclosure) and bought the Browning. Components - loading - everything about it is a dream. Not bad recoil. And lots of LR side match wins (NOT that that's what it's about!) 

 

Look forward to seeing you on the range. 

 

Hug,

Scarlett

[El diablo gringo]

Good morning Sierre Steve, everyone has provided you with some good info. As I learned here, buy once cry once.  Shop around and get the best rifle you can and good sites. I prefer MVA sites over the others. 45/70 is a great round and with proper loading and casting techniques will be extremely accurate.  It's also easy to get components. I shoot bpcr mid range, it's for 200, 300 and 600 yds. and the 45/70 does the job. 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

My rifle is a Pedersoli Remington Rolling Block Creedmore 45/70 .

Beautiful rifle and can be had at a fare price . 

And shoots much better then My old eyes lol.

Just sayin .

Rooster

[Hillbilly Drifter]

I don't know if it is good or not yet but I bought a Uberti Springfield trapdoor carbine in 45-70. could not resist the look and feel of it. will shoot it tomorrow and see how it does. the sights seem decent. nice wood and nice trigger.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

9 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

OLG, actually I do. But is it because the shooters think they can't shoot well unless its a Shiloh etc? This is for SASS side matches, you don't need a $2500 +++ rifle to shoot well in SASS short range shoots.

An H&R will compete well at SASS distances.

Ike

Buy what fits your budget and your 'wants'.

OLG

[Clyde Henry 7046]

Get yourself a Browning BPCR in 45-70.  But it must be a the BPCR model, and not any of the other Browning 1885s.  The BPCR came with nice soule target type sights and Badger barrels (kind of the gold standard for barrels).  You should be able to find one (complete with sights) for about $1750.  Browning also made this rifle in 40-65 (made from 45-70 brass).  The 40-65, with the right  bullet will be competitive out to about 600 yards, while the 45-70 is competitive out to about 900 yards. 

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

The .40-65 can out compete the .45-70 at any range ,,,, Ballistic fact !!!

And with do so with less recoil !!!

Any time you push a bullet with a Higher BC and equal SD or better SD at 200 Fps. faster it will Drop and drift less !!!

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Clyde Henry 7046]

1 hour ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

The .40-65 can out compete the .45-70 at any range ,,,, Ballistic fact !!!

And with do so with less recoil !!!

Any time you push a bullet with a Higher BC and equal SD or better SD at 200 Fps. faster it will Drop and drift less !!!

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

  And so why do all the Creedmoor 1000 yard match shooters use 45-90 type rounds.  I have never seen any 40-65s in any in the top 10 shooters at true long range matches. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

12 minutes ago, Clyde Henry 7046 said:

  And so why do all the Creedmoor 1000 yard match shooters use 45-90 type rounds.  I have never seen any 40-65s in any in the top 10 shooters at true long range matches. 

YUP-Them facts are stubborn things for sure. 

The 40-65 and cross wind don't get along well. 

I'll stick with my .45-90.  I have seen to many .40-65 shooters fall 'short'()past 600 yds.

OLG

[Sedalia Dave]

1 hour ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

The .40-65 can out compete the .45-70 at any range ,,,, Ballistic fact !!!

And with do so with less recoil !!!

Any time you push a bullet with a Higher BC and equal SD or better SD at 200 Fps. faster it will Drop and drift less !!!

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

I recommended the 45-70 based on my own experiences with getting into long range SASS matches.There is a plethora of reloading data for it if one chooses to shoot smokeless. You can shoot loads from mild to ones that kill on one end and mame on the other and everywhere in between. Bullets and brass are plentiful and easy to acquire. Other calibers tend to have a bigger learning curve and published reloading data and brass are usually in short supply Brass can be hard to find and when found costs 2 to 4 times the cost of 45-70. Many older period correct bottle neck cartridges have zero published smokeless reloading data.

 

For a beginner to any type of long range the 45-70 is the easiest to get into and if a person decides it is not for them it is much easier to sell a firearm chambered in 45-70.

[Jasper Agate]

Steve,

You can't go wrong with a Pedersoli!! My shooting partner has a high wall in 38/55 with a 12 twist barrel and beats me regularly. Try to get the rifle as close to 12 lbs as you can and NO crescent but plate. 45/70 is an easy cartridge to load for. Of all the single shots cartridges I load the only one I'll load smokeless for is the 45/70. Try to keep the velocities the same as the BP loads. For sights I'd recommend MVA #103 long range buffalo sight with a Hadley eye cup and I prefer the Baldwin spirit level front sight. We have a long range match coming up on Aug 5^th. If you can come up for the day or weekend ( We shoot Cowboy on Sunday) we can let you shoot some different rifles. We have everything from a CPA Stevens 44 ½ to the Pedersoli I mentioned earlier.

Jasper

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

.40-65 cases ,,,,,,,,,, Simple take a new .45-70 case ,,, put your .40-65 size die in the press pull handle ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, New .40-65 Case ....

The Simple fact is that  with  bullets with the same SD. the one moving the fastest will be less affected by wind ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

[Jasper Agate]

36 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

YUP-Them facts are stubborn things for sure. 

The 40-65 and cross wind don't get along well. 

I'll stick with my .45-90.  I have seen to many .40-65 shooters fall 'short'()past 600 yds.

OLG

While I prefer the 45/90, I've witnessed the 38/70 and 38/72 do very well at long range and even won a couple of matches at Creedmoor distances. I'll admit that the weather was about perfect and the wind cooperated. 

JA