Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I am a member of a Church that has quite a few Veterans and a couple active military personnel. One of our VETS is due to receive the Purple Heart. There is a high probability that his commanding officer may present it to him during one of our church services. Should this happen, is it proper protocol for the other Vets in the service to stand and render a Salute to the PH recipient? ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Presentation of Military Awards to Soldiers Veterans and Primary Next of Kin No. The presentation should be done in a formal ceremony, presided over by an officer. There should be a reading of the order awarding the medal. While the reading is often preceded by the words "Attention to orders," this is not actually a command to come to attention. It is instead an instruction to pay attention while the order is read. Many believe otherwise though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I presume that we are speaking of someone who is no longer on active or reserve duty. Mine was presented at one of our reunions, by my former Bn. Commander. He did start by saying: "Attention to orders." Then he made a formal presentation. In your circumstances, it would not be inappropriate for the other veterans to stand during the presentation and salute when his Commanding Officer salutes him. Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 4, 2017 Author Share Posted July 4, 2017 Duffield, The recipient is still in the Reserves, although I don't know how active his injury allows him to be. He was in a Personnel Carrier when it got hit with a RPG overseas. I was thinking the same as you in that the Vets should stand and render a salute when he is presented the PH and saluted by his CO. DOC, thanks for the link. Y'all have a great 4th. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I don't believe that the MPs will show up and arrest him if his CO presents it in your church. Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 The question was on military protocol. Doc answered that. Veterans who are not in uniform may salute the flag at the playing of the national anthem but it would be improper to salute under the circumstances you mentioned. Nice gesture but not correct procol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 My brother in law, wounded twice, received his Purple Heart in a German hospital were a general handed out the Purple Heart to those in the ward. He said the General pinned it on his pillow. His second Purple Heart was a star to add and was handed to him in his hand. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 6 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said: My brother in law, wounded twice, received his Purple Heart in a German hospital were a general handed out the Purple Heart to those in the ward. He said the General pinned it on his pillow. His second Purple Heart was a star to add and was handed to him in his hand. MT Somebody was cheap. They are supposed to award you an actual medal each time you are wounded. The star or olc is affixed to the ribbon to indicate subsequent awards. I had a friend who had 4 purple hearts. You can only wear one at a time though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 On 7/3/2017 at 11:32 PM, DocWard said: https://www.hrc.army.mil/content/Presentation of Military Awards to Soldiers Veterans and Primary Next of Kin No. The presentation should be done in a formal ceremony, presided over by an officer. There should be a reading of the order awarding the medal. While the reading is often preceded by the words "Attention to orders," this is not actually a command to come to attention. It is instead an instruction to pay attention while the order is read. Many believe otherwise though. Doc got the details right as far as formal prescribed protocol. In practice, at formal ceremonies such as award presentations and promotions, when the acting adjutant announces "Attention to orders", I've never seen anyone in the service not come to attention, and every civilian at the ceremony rise to their feet. Presenting a Purple Heart at a church service? Never heard of that one, but not to say I'd find it inappropriate if done with dignity and decorum. I'd suggest that you discretely talk to the acting adjutant or pastor and suggest that prior to the award ceremony he brief the congregation that it would be appropriate for all to stand during the reading of the order and presentation of the Purple Heart. As for any veteran in the audience saluting when the soldier and his commanding officer exchange honors, that would be inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. D. Pickett Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 I am not versed on military protocol but would say that if I were to pastor/minister I would ask the congregation to stand while the presentation was done. The Holey Bible says that a man hath no great love than to lay down his life for his friends. Since the wounded person was wounded in the service of our country, we should have the respect to stand. Just my .02 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said: Doc got the details right as far as formal prescribed protocol. In practice, at formal ceremonies such as award presentations and promotions, when the acting adjutant announces "Attention to orders", I've never seen anyone in the service not come to attention, and every civilian at the ceremony rise to their feet. Presenting a Purple Heart at a church service? Never heard of that one, but not to say I'd find it inappropriate if done with dignity and decorum. I'd suggest that you discretely talk to the acting adjutant or pastor and suggest that prior to the award ceremony he brief the congregation that it would be appropriate for all to stand during the reading of the order and presentation of the Purple Heart. As for any veteran in the audience saluting when the soldier and his commanding officer exchange honors, that would be inappropriate. 51 minutes ago, W. D. Pickett said: I am not versed on military protocol but would say that if I were to pastor/minister I would ask the congregation to stand while the presentation was done. The Holey Bible says that a man hath no great love than to lay down his life for his friends. Since the wounded person was wounded in the service of our country, we should have the respect to stand. Just my .02 cents. I do believe it is quite appropriate for all present to stand for the presentation. I wouldn't expect it to happen in a church, but I would consider it rudeness for an able bodied person to sit on such an occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Wire Pards, ALL of you have been very helpful with the appropriate information. Because we have many Vets in our church membership, including the PH recipient is also one of our church members, the Pastor of the church is considering asking the CO to make the PH presentation during one of our services. No one, including me, considered it inappropriate for that type presentation, assuming the CO agreed to the ceremony. BUT, I did want to find out if it was either appropriate or inappropriate for other Vets to salute. I agree, I think the request for the congregation to stand would be the best way for us to render due respect to the recipient. MUCH THANKS! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Irons Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 On 7/3/2017 at 9:51 PM, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said: I am a member of a Church that has quite a few Veterans and a couple active military personnel. One of our VETS is due to receive the Purple Heart. There is a high probability that his commanding officer may present it to him during one of our church services. Should this happen, is it proper protocol for the other Vets in the service to stand and render a Salute to the PH recipient? ..........Widder In Iraq, then COL now GEN Abrams made sure all of our wounded soldiers had a Purple Heart pinned on their chest before they were flown to Germany. Seen several pinned on at the Baghdad hospital. No fancy ceremony, few people in a hospital room with the commander thanking him and giving him his purple heart before leaving country. The soldiers appreciated this and knew their chain of command appreciated their service and sacrifice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Two Irons, Is a 'quiet' or personal ceremony considered the correct and more appropriate way to get the PH? If so, I will probably share the information to our Pastor and he will probably not request it be performed during a church service. Thanks. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Irons Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said: Two Irons, Is a 'quiet' or personal ceremony considered the correct and more appropriate way to get the PH? If so, I will probably share the information to our Pastor and he will probably not request it be performed during a church service. Thanks. ..........Widder I think its up to the individual's chain of command (in your case) or command in my example. That was COL Abrams thing, he felt every wounded soldier should have a purple heart on his chest when he left Iraq. At first I felt it wasnt a good idea to put soldiers at risk to drive all the way to baghdad which was out of our AO. But seeing how much the soldiers appreciated it, made me understand why he was so adamant about getting the PH to them before leaving the country. The guys that were wounded but not evaced, were awarded their PH in a ceremony in the camp when the optempo allowed for such. If his commander wants to give it in church, have at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Harley, #14153 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 13 minutes ago, Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054 said: Two Irons, Is a 'quiet' or personal ceremony considered the correct and more appropriate way to get the PH? If so, I will probably share the information to our Pastor and he will probably not request it be performed during a church service. Thanks. ..........Widder The "correct" way is with dignity and respect. What Two Irons describes is frequently done, especially if the soldier is hospitalized for an extended stay. It's also appropriate to make the presentation at a unit formation if the soldier is not hospitalized and has been returned to his comrades in arms. For a reservist to receive his Purple Heart in front of his church congregation is entirely "correct". I'd also consider inviting his entire unit to the church service. I'll bet they'd attend en masse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Irons Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 Just now, Charlie Harley, #14153 said: The "correct" way is with dignity and respect. What Two Irons describes is frequently done, especially if the soldier is hospitalized for an extended stay. It's also appropriate to make the presentation at a unit formation if the soldier is not hospitalized and has been returned to his comrades in arms. For a reservist to receive his Purple Heart in front of his church congregation is entirely "correct". I'd also consider inviting his entire unit to the church service. I'll bet they'd attend en masse. Totally agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 4 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said: The "correct" way is with dignity and respect. What Two Irons describes is frequently done, especially if the soldier is hospitalized for an extended stay. It's also appropriate to make the presentation at a unit formation if the soldier is not hospitalized and has been returned to his comrades in arms. For a reservist to receive his Purple Heart in front of his church congregation is entirely "correct". I'd also consider inviting his entire unit to the church service. I'll bet they'd attend en masse. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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