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Costume contest question


Texas Jack Daniels

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What exactly is the appropriate time peroid for SASS costume contests? I understand it isn't medieval and it isn't the 1920s. But what is the correct time period for judging costume contests? Civil war ok?  WWI ok?  I do not see this published anywhere.

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I would go with the years of the guns allowed and you should be okay.

 

Or, you could read the rulebook...PAGE #3

Cowboy Action Shooting™ is a combination of historical reenactment and Saturday morning at the matinee. Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series.

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I would say between 1860 and 1900 +or- 5 years. Within reason. That's within the range that most of our guns were developed and most westerns are set. That should be reasonable.

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TJD, I just checked with the Queen. SASS venues:

Cowboy Action: Late 19th. Century (Civil War to appx. 1900)Basically Victorian period.  

Exception #1: B-Western Silver Screen can be based on a B-Western Movie(or an A-Western Movie actually) or a television show that depicts A Western cowboy venue.

Exception #2:  Steampunk is NOT an approved category but can be included in B-Western Silver Screen

 

Wild Bunch: Cowboy Action clothing is acceptable but the emphasis is on US Military from 1900 to 1916 and Edwardian dress of the Period between 1900 and 1920.

 

I will ask CAT when they plan to update the Costume management guide when I meet with her and Tex to update the WBAS Handbooks this fall.  Hopefully this helps.

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1 minute ago, Dorado said:

I would say between 1860 and 1900 +or- 5 years. Within reason. That's within the range that most of our guns were developed and most westerns are set. That should be reasonable.

Yep, within reason. I wouldn't think past 1899 unless yer into the B-Westerns or TV series, course that's easy enough to say that's what yer copying;)......Some of the C & B pistols are from the mid 1800s....... for me a safe bet for costuming is around the 1850s - 1899. Good Luck:)

 

32 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I would go with the years of the guns allowed and you should be okay.

 

Or, you could read the rulebook...PAGE #3

all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series.

Yep;)

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Regarding EOT, I guess I'm curious to know why these bizarre military costumes from British colonial periods in places outside the US and other odd and strange "costumes" having nothing to do with Cowboying are judged acceptable and are awarded any placement AT ALL in the costume contests?

 

Also, I've never understood what prizes are awarded in these costume contests.

 

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm not interested is some un-mothballed, pith-helmeted khaki outfit worn by a Brit military officer in Rangoon sometime in the 19th Century.

 

Further, why is virtually an entire issue of the CC devoted to this costuming contest thing, with seemingly lesser coverage being given (and some forgotten altogether) to the winners and placers in the shooting competition?  How about profiling shooters who have invested a fortune in weapons, vehicles, equipment, gear, $$$, time, work effort and more, in this game and have made the pilgrimage to EOT, in an effort to place high enough to bring home a trophy buckle, which this year, was downgraded to a plastic pin?

 

What am I missing?

 

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3 hours ago, Cat Brules, SASS #14086 said:

Regarding EOT, I guess I'm curious to know why these bizarre military costumes from British colonial periods in places outside the US and other odd and strange "costumes" having nothing to do with Cowboying are judged acceptable and are awarded any placement AT ALL in the costume contests?

 

Also, I've never understood what prizes are awarded in these costume contests.

 

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm not interested is some un-mothballed, pith-helmeted khaki outfit worn by a Brit military officer in Rangoon sometime in the 19th Century.

 

Further, why is virtually an entire issue of the CC devoted to this costuming contest thing, with seemingly lesser coverage being given (and some forgotten altogether) to the winners and placers in the shooting competition?  How about profiling shooters who have invested a fortune in weapons, vehicles, equipment, gear, $$$, time, work effort and more, in this game and have made the pilgrimage to EOT, in an effort to place high enough to bring home a trophy buckle, which this year, was downgraded to a plastic pin?

 

What am I missing?

 

What is this plastic pin you speak of?

The badges awarded this year were very nice...and my hubby is still aiming for a buckle, somewhere down the road.

Costuming is also part of SASS...and there are those who invest time, energy and $$ to costume.

I think it is pretty well evenly distributed.

Just my two cents.

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Thanks everyone.  But, I am looking for the definitive requirements.  Civil war is before the cowboy era. I am not investing in costumes anymore with vague requirements.  It could be they are not defined "aka 1873 to 1900" or such.  Gone with the Wind is pre and during the civil war, IMHO Scarlet's outfits would not be appropriate. But I don't know. 

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TJD,

 

 Don't knock dressing up as Scarlet O'Hara, until you've tried it. The hoop skirt will lift your gun belt so that drawing the pistols is lightning quick. :D.  

 

 Just funning with ya.

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I've seen 1840's Mexican Army costumes and lots of Civil War.  Also Mountain Men from the 1830-40's as well.  I would suggest from past costume contests that Anything after the Regency Period to the Mexican Punitive wars (1917) works for Cowboy Match type costumes.   As to British, or Scots or German military uniforms.  I think they add a lot and are fine.  I've also seen Railroad engineers,  19th Century baseball uniforms,  Medical Uniforms and again like the variety.  I find it funny how folks want "restrictions" on this kind of thing so long as they get to decide what the restrictions are. 

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TJD, Civil War period dress IS approved. As a matter of fact ladies in hoop dresses have won Costume Contests at both EOT and the SASS Conventions. While I agree that it is before what many call the "cowboy period" it is acceptable for SASS Costuming. Copper Queen should know as she is the judge in charge.

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SHB Page 3,first Paragraph defines the period, 'Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series'.

 

So anything anyone wore from 1800 to 1900 and beyond. Cowboy clothing didn't end at 1899. And B-Western is a fallout from the silver screen and TV, not reality. Ranch hands up to present still wear, boots, jeans, long sleeve shirts, not always, and some sort of hat. No one wore fancy stitched boots, shirts, and funny looking pants while herding cattle. 

So 49'r miner, Scarlet O'Hara, Civil War, Indian Wars, Spanish American War, townies, bankers etc.

I recommend viewing this years EOT costume results, or go back a few months and look at Winter Range.

 

I'm with Cat Brules, the whole Military thing has gotten a bit much.

Ike

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8 hours ago, Cat Brules, SASS #14086 said:

Regarding EOT, I guess I'm curious to know why these bizarre military costumes from British colonial periods in places outside the US and other odd and strange "costumes" having nothing to do with Cowboying are judged acceptable and are awarded any placement AT ALL in the costume contests?

 

Also, I've never understood what prizes are awarded in these costume contests.

 

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I'm not interested is some un-mothballed, pith-helmeted khaki outfit worn by a Brit military officer in Rangoon sometime in the 19th Century.

 

Further, why is virtually an entire issue of the CC devoted to this costuming contest thing, with seemingly lesser coverage being given (and some forgotten altogether) to the winners and placers in the shooting competition?  How about profiling shooters who have invested a fortune in weapons, vehicles, equipment, gear, $$$, time, work effort and more, in this game and have made the pilgrimage to EOT, in an effort to place high enough to bring home a trophy buckle, which this year, was downgraded to a plastic pin?

 

What am I missing?

 

Maybe somebody, like you should write articles for the CC. Skinny, The Editor prints the articles that he receives. If there are only costuming articles that are submitted that's probably what you'll see in the CC. SASS does not employ full time writers. 

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IMO the reason the custom ingredient gets so much photo coverage is they take photos of the entrants as they compete very few photos of the winners is because there isn't enough photographers shooting every shooter just in case they win.  There used to be two photography organizations shooting eot haven't seen one in a few years and was told by the other that they were retiring after this year.  So unless someone picks up the duty nobody will be getting photographed in the future by Pro photoghers.  So except for the custom photos you might not see any unless a guy sends in their cell phone pictures.

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You all are proving my point quite nicely. There is no agreement. Happy Jack states the Copper Queen knows. But it is the contestents that need to know.

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On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 9:01 AM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I would go with the years of the guns allowed and you should be okay.

 

Or, you could read the rulebook...PAGE #3

Cowboy Action Shooting™ is a combination of historical reenactment and Saturday morning at the matinee. Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television series.

Looks pretty clear to me.

kR

I'm thinking that would include Wild West.

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Hi Folks,

 

Although it might make things easier, I don't  think it would be possible to have the appropriate years listed in the Costume Contest Management and Administration Booklet. That is due to the inclusion of B-Western as typical clothing. For example, The Wild Bunch movie is set in 1913 and I think it qualifies as a B-Western. Women's clothing styles in 1913 are very different from those in pre-1900 and also very different from those in Gene, Roy, and Hoppy's movies. Another example for men and women is, the increasingly popular, Steampunk look. I like the creativity and think it fits in the B-W category due to the movie and TV Series, The Wild Wild West.

 

I do think it would be helpful to have additional guidelines in the booklet. However, I know, as a Costume Contest Manager (CCM), it is sometimes difficult, especially at smaller annuals, to find costumes that would adhere to strict guidelines. For example, at the first annual where I managed the Costume Contest, we included Saloon Girl/Parlor House Madam in the Evening Contest. There were none among the shooters. So I gave the award to a non-shooter. At least, she was a SASS member. That is okay according to the CCM&A booklet; but, who else knew that, but me? One year, I gave a LBW award to a non-shooter who was a SASS member. She was sidelined due to surgery and kept score for the posse. I received complaints about awarding a non shooter.

 

Then, we, CCMs, have to deal with the "sour grape" factor due to the seemingly, and possibly actual, subjective nature of the contest that doesn't happen in a shooting contest.

 

Being a CCM has some things in common with being a TO. Number one is the complaining, when a call is somewhat subjective or people aren't familiar with clothing eras or shooting rules. For example, using the Working Cowgirl/Cowboy category, if one person had a pre-1900 costume and another person had a Steampunk costume, who would win? Using the SASS CCMA recommended score sheet, it would depend on the points. One may have many points in Authenticity, if you are thinking in pre-1900 terms; but, the other may have more if you are thinking in B-W terms. Then, when you get to Originality and Detail, the Steampunk may be over-the-top awesome.

 

I've seen comments here about folks not wanting to be TOs anymore due to the complaints. The same is true for CCMs. Neither are easy jobs.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS I have taken the Costume Contest Administration class at the SASS Convention, read the booklet, and do my best to be fair.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In my humblest of humble opinions, having been a costume judge, costumer, and costume contest winner, I LOVE the Civil War clothing. If we were not to go back that far, then we would leave out all the hoop skirts and dresses and all of the uniforms from the War of Northern Aggression, again which I truly love. HOWEVER--LATE--I repeat LATE 19th Century is NOT 1836 (when the Alamo fell) Nor IMHO 1865 or before (49er)--those dates are MID or EARLY 19th Century. It is my understanding that our fantasy sport is target dated in 1873, that being said MAYBE the costume contests should reflect around that date. Certainly a perfectly dressed Mexican Dragoon would not be appropriate in the Wild Bunch category (Nor would his firearms). I agree that what was happening around the world in military or civilian clothing for that matter is not part of our 'cowboy fantasy game'. An example of which would be someone participating in the Military costume contest dressed in a loincloth carrying a spear, and shield from the Anglo-Zulu war at Rorkes Drift--certainly in our time period 1879, but hardly "Wild West". B-Western---a whole different category ANY TV Show or movie. Maybe there should be a Civil War costuming category?? I was a costume judge and we awarded a participant a 'judges choice' award because he was great--but didn't fit into ANY category (a WWI German Commandant).  Of course MY fantasy and your fantasy may differ, but that is the way I interpret LATE 19th Century.

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1 hour ago, Hawkshaw Fred SASS #36811 said:

An example of which would be someone participating in the Military costume contest dressed in a loincloth carrying a spear, and shield from the Anglo-Zulu war at Rorkes Drift

Well, you're not gonna catch me walking around with my assegai hanging out. :rolleyes:

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On 7/2/2017 at 1:39 PM, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

 

Although it might make things easier, I don't  think it would be possible to have the appropriate years listed in the Costume Contest Management and Administration Booklet. That is due to the inclusion of B-Western as typical clothing. For example, The Wild Bunch movie is set in 1913 and I think it qualifies as a B-Western. Women's clothing styles in 1913 are very different from those in pre-1900 and also very different from those in Gene, Roy, and Hoppy's movies. Another example for men and women is, the increasingly popular, Steampunk look. I like the creativity and think it fits in the B-W category due to the movie and TV Series, The Wild Wild West.

 

I do think it would be helpful to have additional guidelines in the booklet. However, I know, as a Costume Contest Manager (CCM), it is sometimes difficult, especially at smaller annuals, to find costumes that would adhere to strict guidelines. For example, at the first annual where I managed the Costume Contest, we included Saloon Girl/Parlor House Madam in the Evening Contest. There were none among the shooters. So I gave the award to a non-shooter. At least, she was a SASS member. That is okay according to the CCM&A booklet; but, who else knew that, but me? One year, I gave a LBW award to a non-shooter who was a SASS member. She was sidelined due to surgery and kept score for the posse. I received complaints about awarding a non shooter.

 

Then, we, CCMs, have to deal with the "sour grape" factor due to the seemingly, and possibly actual, subjective nature of the contest that doesn't happen in a shooting contest.

 

Being a CCM has some things in common with being a TO. Number one is the complaining, when a call is somewhat subjective or people aren't familiar with clothing eras or shooting rules. For example, using the Working Cowgirl/Cowboy category, if one person had a pre-1900 costume and another person had a Steampunk costume, who would win? Using the SASS CCMA recommended score sheet, it would depend on the points. One may have many points in Authenticity, if you are thinking in pre-1900 terms; but, the other may have more if you are thinking in B-W terms. Then, when you get to Originality and Detail, the Steampunk may be over-the-top awesome.

 

I've seen comments here about folks not wanting to be TOs anymore due to the complaints. The same is true for CCMs. Neither are easy jobs.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS I have taken the Costume Contest Administration class at the SASS Convention, read the booklet, and do my best to be fair.

Well said, Allie

 

It is great to have the folks dress in character whether they shoot or not!

 

And we need to remember that the Civil War was a huge influence into the big push to go west and start the Cowboy period.  It is what encouraged many to move West.  It essentially started the need for the cattle drives, etc.

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It appears to me there is no defined time period, locale, etc..  All I ask is that the costume contest equivalent of the of the RO committee, maybe the "Costume committee", meet and publish something.  I don't care if it says 1732 to 1945 from anywhere in the universe.  Whatever is says is fine, just say something definitive.  I spend thousands of dollars of costumes and accoutrements for Shotglass.  I don't want to waste my money.  I want to know beforehand what is and is not covered.  I have heard some outfits being disqualified for being out of time period (i.e. Mae West style).  I don't know s#$%^ about what is and isn't in any particular time period.  The Civil war predates the cowboy era, Zulu military outfits are another continent.  Again I don't know and I don't want to plunk down thousands of dollars on "You should be ok", "That ought to be ok",  and then find I am at the whim and fancy of the judges.  I love my wife I want to support my wife. Is that so terrible?

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Hi TJD,

 

Of course that is not terrible. It is fantastic! :wub:  (Would you talk to my husband. ;) )

 

I've been appointed to two committees to determine more specifics for B Western Shooting Category Costumes, which is different from the Costume Contest. The Costume Contest, may include things not included in the Shooting Category. Both times were a fiasco. One time I wrote Cat a question and got an answer from Tex. From that, I gather that you should contact Cat Ballou. After attending the last Convention and the Costuming Class, I think Texas Flower might be a good contact too. None of us here on the Wire will have any say on the topic unless Cat agrees. All we can do is give opinions.

 

Hey! You're the man who got us Total Time Scoring for all SASS matches. Doing something about more detail in the costuming contest guidelines should be easy compared to that. ;)

 

Best Wishes! :)

 

AM

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I wore my Grandads clothes All original pre 1900 , including Chaps ,watch, knife,Cuffs , britches ,boots,scarf,hat,holsters,.shirt and underwear ,,,,and still couldn't win best dressed "Working Cowboy"

I was shooting the match with 1871 Open-tops and a hammered Double made in 1884 and a 66 ...

 

The Working Cowboy that won was all decked out in modern Duds ...

 

The funny thing is he was the real deal ,ranching from 1870 till his death ...

Jabez Cowboy

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Hi Jabez,

 

That reminds me of the first costume contest I entered. I had an 1890s walking suit in a period fabric; faille, AKA bengaline, AKA gros grain. They judged by applause. No question, I got the most. The winner had on a 1950s style lace, strapless, full skirted prom dress. She won. After the contest, several people came up to me and told me I got cheated. I think the reason they didn't award me was that I won the Shooting Costume Contest, judged by the berm marshals.

 

Oh well,

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Judging by applause seems a bit antiquated these days. Shouldn’t be hard to set up something online ina matter of minutes, and almost everyone has a smart phone these days. 

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18 minutes ago, Ben Beam said:

Judging by applause seems a bit antiquated these days. Shouldn’t be hard to set up something online ina matter of minutes, and almost everyone has a smart phone these days. 

That was in 2000. I just told the story as it echoed Jabez's and fit TJD's theme of not having rules or eras to go by.

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Random thought. Why not ask the people at the contest that you're wanting to enter. Every contest will have different ideas as to what appropriate. What works for one may not for another. Then again, this is CAS, this is supposed to be fun. If you find an outfit that you like, and it falls somewhere within an appropriate time period. Wear it. It's not as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. If you want to dress as a Civil War soldier then do it. There are plenty of westerns set in that time period. If you want turn of the century, then do it. Make yourself happy and don't try so hard to please others. You'll just end up making both of you miserable.

 

JUST HAVE FUN.

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Funny how this topic sort of mirrors so many of the other disagreements about what SASS “should be.” Some people seem to be purely into the competitive aspect of it, wanting to downplay the cowboy dress requirements. Others seem to want to focus more on the role-play aspect of it, with the shooting portion really just a smaller part of the whole. Sounds like posses end up being focused more on one or the other, and people find the group that fits them best. It also seems to me like SASS has done a pretty good job with the rules of balancing the two. I’m just a bit surprised how often people think the rules shouldn’t apply to them for one reason or another. 

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I remember several years ago, I won the "B Western" costume contest at EOT.  Another contestant and his wife raised hell about it.  They even went so far as to demand a meeting of the Wild Bunch seeking to have the Judges overturned.  I told them they could have the buckle and plaque if it meant so much to them.  I was in it for the fun and to make new friends.  The Wild Bunch upheld the Judges decision.  I have never entered another contest.  Some people can't be happy if they don't win.  I feel sorry for themselves!

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Hi Folks,

 

One problem I see with waiting until the contest to determine categories is that the awards are likely to be engraved or labeled ahead of time. What I do is publish a flier describing the categories. It is on our local website, in the confirmation flier, and in the shooter's envelopes. I have fine tuned it over the years to be the type of clothing most likely to be seen at our matches. Like I wrote earlier, Parlor House Madams and Saloon Girls are almost non existent. So is military, except at our separate State match for WBAS. As a result, we've awarded a one and only Military in the Victorian category.

 

That said WR/EOT and our little (less than 200 shooters this year) State match are totally different animals. It is like shooting categories, it may not be feasible for smaller matches to offer all of the categories that were offered at bigger matches, especially like EOT. Did I remember correctly that there was a Senior FCGF category at EOT?

 

Sorry, TJD, if this is OT. There is a thread on the TG Wire at this time asking about finances and revenue for monthly and annual matches. My understanding from the comments is that very few matches generate a lot of income. So, awards are a big deal/cost. As a result categories may be limited at some matches.

 

I do fight to keep the categories we have. As a result we only award a first place for them.

 

Back to the topic, I think it would be helpful to have additional guidelines if someone can think of some.

1. TJD: add some years to the different categories

2. AM: be more descriptive of what belongs in  the B-Western category.

3. ??...

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There is documentation of cowboys (aka Vaqueros) and trail drives among the Spaniards in the Americas back to the 16th Century.  Many of the modern cowboy accoutrements bear Spanish names from that era.

 

So, it looks like you can really stretch the costuming to span several centuries and still be correct.

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