The Velcro rule

[Calico Mary]

in that case, I want extra butter on my popcorn Pat......

[Pat Riot]

Roscoe,

While I sympathize, rules are rules. Perhaps they can be modified with snaps and some really cool conchos?

 

Pssst...If you hadn't mentioned it no one would probably ever know about it.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

15 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

I am kinda bummed, interpreting this to mean my half chaps that close with a Velcro strip are outlawed, even though no one would ever know, except maybe as I put them on in the parking lot.

 

 

 

Roscoe:

      Unfortunately, now that you posted it to the SASS WIRE,  EVERYBODY KNOWS.

 

      

[Houston CAS]

Just use cockleburs. Those latch onto anything. 

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

2 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Rules require the use of ANSI compliant safety glasses for protection.  Much more important than the rule about plastic garment and attachments.   Please, get real.

 

Good luck, GJ

Dang if you don't have my curiosity up. Where is this rule that "require the use of ANSI safety glasses for protection?" All I could find is the recommendation of high impact glasses from page 26, item 31 of the SHB. Personally I'd think someone a fool to not wear safety glasses, but I can't find where it is required. 

 

"31. Hearing protection is highly recommended and eye protection is mandatory in and around the shooting areas. While small, period glasses look great, full protection, high impact glasses are strongly recommended. Such protection is recommended for everyone when in the range area, and eye protection is mandatory for spectators when within direct line of sight of steel targets."

[Captain Bill Burt]

9 minutes ago, Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 said:

Dang if you don't have my curiosity up. Where is this rule that "require the use of ANSI safety glasses for protection?" All I could find is the recommendation of high impact glasses from page 26, item 31 of the SHB. Personally I'd think someone a fool to not wear safety glasses, but I can't find where it is required. 

 

"31. Hearing protection is highly recommended and eye protection is mandatory in and around the shooting areas. While small, period glasses look great, full protection, high impact glasses are strongly recommended. Such protection is recommended for everyone when in the range area, and eye protection is mandatory for spectators when within direct line of sight of steel targets."

It's on page 34 of the RO IV handbook, right underneath the rule about lug soles and before the one about gunfighters having to alternate shots from each pistol.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Roscoe,

 

You have your answer under current rules. If you are interested in changing the rule to allow Velcro when it is not visible, I recommend you send a PM to Tex or Cat Ballou. They might bring it up to the ROC and recommend a clarification that, if the Velcro is not visible, it is okay. Then again, they might not.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

9 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Because they didn't have velcro in the old west? Also I fear it would open the door for "modern type holsters" that would take away from the unique aspect of our sport!

 

They didn't have gun carts and Ruger Vaqueros, either, but here we are.  SASS is not supposed to be historical reenactment; it's just the spirit of the old west.  I think the rule book identifies it as either historical reenactment, or "Saturday at the matinee," whatever the shooter chooses.  If we were going for historical authenticity, we wouldn't have a Classic Cowboy category at all! 

 

In my opinion, these are merely elements of the shooter's costume.  They do not provide any advantage; they are not some fancy Velcro-enabled shotshell holder, etc. They are just there for looks.  If I was the MD, I'd say wear them, shoot, and have fun!

[Cole Younger Requlator]

ZIPPER-The product debuted at the 1893 World's Fair in Chicago, but it didn't have much success. The modern zipper was eventually designed in 1913 by Gideon Sundback, who worked at the Universal Fastener Company in Hoboken, New Jersey. He received a patent for his “Separable Fastener" in 1917.

[Blackey Cole]

Jodi would like for you to post the rule where it requires an ansi certification I just found eye protection is required.

[Captain Bill Burt]

There is no such rule Blackey.

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

 

They didn't have gun carts and Ruger Vaqueros, either, but here we are.  SASS is not supposed to be historical reenactment; it's just the spirit of the old west.  I think the rule book identifies it as either historical reenactment, or "Saturday at the matinee," whatever the shooter chooses.  If we were going for historical authenticity, we wouldn't have a Classic Cowboy category at all! 

 

In my opinion, these are merely elements of the shooter's costume.  They do not provide any advantage; they are not some fancy Velcro-enabled shotshell holder, etc. They are just there for looks.  If I was the MD, I'd say wear them, shoot, and have fun!

I know, I thought of all that after I posted my reply but I guess we just do what we can to keep the "old west" personna alive and maybe..just maybe...Velcro is a little too much!

[Remington Steel]

 OK so here is a twist.  I am brand new to SASS, haven't even got my tin star yet, and am looking at good quality leather holsters and shell belts and or slides.  There are a few reputable long time SASS merchants who specialize in these items.  I have notice that some of the shell belts and slides have elastic shell loops.  Where do these fit into the fray? Are they legal at matches?  I am only asking as I don’t want to drop $550 on these and not be able to use them.

[Yusta B.]

Fairly widely in use now.

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

14 minutes ago, Remington Steel said:

 OK so here is a twist.  I am brand new to SASS, haven't even got my tin star yet, and am looking at good quality leather holsters and shell belts and or slides.  There are a few reputable long time SASS merchants who specialize in these items.  I have notice that some of the shell belts and slides have elastic shell loops.  Where do these fit into the fray? Are they legal at matches?  I am only asking as I don’t want to drop $550 on these and not be able to use them.

 

Elastic loops are legal; no worries.

 

If no one has told you, I will:  Before you buy anything, come out to a local match.

[Remington Steel]

20 minutes ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

If no one has told you, I will:  Before you buy anything, come out to a local match

Already been to one, and plan on attending several others before I make any purchases, just doing my research now.

 

Given that visible elastic is legal, I can see why the OP might not agree with the rule applying to non visible velcro. - Just saying.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

1 minute ago, Remington Steel said:

Already been to one, and plan on attending several others before I make any purchases, just doing my research now.

 

Given that visible elastic is legal, I can see why the OP might not agree with the rule applying to non visible velcro. - Just saying.

Elastic is legal because it was in use in the 19th century and was frequently seen in men's shoes.

http://www.versteegde.nl/History_of_Elastic_and_Rubber_Bands.html

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

PS Velcro wasn't invented until the 20th century.

[Remington Steel]

Allie,  thanks for the history lesson. Today is a good day, I learned something new. 

[Wyatt]

This topic made me laugh, smile and shake my head back and forth in disbelief..........all at the same time!!!!!!

 

Not that's entertainment!!!!!

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Be surprised how much illegal modifications are made external, that no one catches. Caught several over past month. Wrapping leather around rifle barrel and forearm, adding thick angled padding behind trigger guard on shotgun from distance looks like part of rear trigger guard, bullet loops added to shotgun belt I front of the shotgun shells. All this from one shooter who said he got the idea from a top shooter.

I had to check it out, yup.

Out of curiosity, how many actually check other shooters equipment? This shooter until the first time on my posse said he had these modifications for over a year. MT

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

Well

[Sgt. Chesty SASS # 73317]

24 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Be surprised how much illegal modifications are made external, that no one catches. Caught several over past month. Wrapping leather around rifle barrel and forearm, adding thick angled padding behind trigger guard on shotgun from distance looks like part of rear trigger guard, bullet loops added to shotgun belt I front of the shotgun shells. All this from one shooter who said he got the idea from a top shooter.

I had to check it out, yup.

Out of curiosity, how many actually check other shooters equipment? This shooter until the first time on my posse said he had these modifications for over a year. MT

That is the problem....not enough people paying attention. Then the shooter goes to a big match and they have a problem...just saying!

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

3 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

...

Out of curiosity, how many actually check other shooters equipment? This shooter until the first time on my posse said he had these modifications for over a year. MT

Hi MT,

 

I don't intentionally check out shooters' equipment. Sometimes, it just jumps out at me.

 

There was one person who shot with us several times (on my posse even) and I didn't notice his SG shell holder. One day it "jumped out at me." I told him it was illegal. It had one row of SG shells in front of the other. He went ballistic at me. He said he'd bought it at EOT in Norco and wore it there. He also told me I'd told him that before; I hadn't. I wondered why he was still wearing it though, if he knew it was illegal. The PM/TO let him wear it and I was told I shouldn't have said anything as he got ready to shoot. Sheesh, I was saving him a penalty by telling him he couldn't wear it. Well, he didn't get any penalties for it and finished the match. He even came to the SASS Wire and asked if it was legal, without a photo. Grizzly Dave created a facsimile photo and asked if that is what it looked like. He was told it was illegal. I haven't seen him at a match or on the Wire since.

 

Sometimes, it's tough to get people to follow the Rules and I'm not just talking about clothing.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

 

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi MT,

 

I don't intentionally check out shooters' equipment. Sometimes, it just jumps out at me.

 

There was one person who shot with us several times (on my posse even) and I didn't notice his SG shell holder. One day it "jumped out at me." I told him it was illegal. It had one row of SG shells in front of the other. He went ballistic at me. He said he'd bought it at EOT in Norco and wore it there. He also told me I'd told him that before; I hadn't. I wondered why he was still wearing it though, if he knew it was illegal. The PM/TO let him wear it and I was told I shouldn't have said anything as he got ready to shoot. Sheesh, I was saving him a penalty by telling him he couldn't wear it. Well, he didn't get any penalties for it and finished the match. He even came to the SASS Wire and asked if it was legal, without a photo. Grizzly Dave created a facsimile photo and asked if that is what it looked like. He was told it was illegal. I haven't seen him at a match or on the Wire since.

 

Sometimes, it's tough to get people to follow the Rules and I'm not just talking about clothing.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

 

Hi, Allie, Yes I was told the same, that I shouldn't have said anything. Same for a shooter that signed up for "B" western shooting a 73. I very kindly asked if he knew the requirement for the category and told him 73s were not authorized for "B" Westerns, but a list of those long guns that do and are qualified for the category were listed in the shooters handbook. The MD overheard and said I shouldn't have said anything because that shooter may not come back again. They may just be monthly matches at a local club, but I believe instilling rules, regulation, and safety start at the bottom, so when the shooter goes to a larger match, or one outside their regular monthlies, they will be in compliance and still be able to enjoy the game.  MT

[Remington Steel]

25 minutes ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

The MD overheard and said I shouldn't have said anything because that shooter may not come back again.

 

As a new shooter, I would welcome/encourage any member of a posse to address (as long as it is done politely) with me a possible rules violation that I may be unknowingly committing. The way I see it, the rule were set for reasons of safety, fairness, and the spirit of the game.  If you don’t like any one of the reason for the rules (or the rules themselves), no one says you have to play the game.

 

After all, If the only way you can win at a game is by ignoring the rules when others are following them, is it really a win? Those with integrity know what the correct answer is.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I am glad this was brought up.  I have lost 30 pounds and put a piece of velcro in my gun belt to help hold it together.  Now that I have become self-aware that I am a dirt bag cheater I ran into the gun room and ripped it out of there.  In most cases of equipment violations the person knows they are wrong.  They aren't mad at themselves about violating the rules.  They are mad that they got caught.

[Maddog McCoy SASS #5672]

1 hour ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Hi, Allie, Yes I was told the same, that I shouldn't have said anything. Same for a shooter that signed up for "B" western shooting a 73. I very kindly asked if he knew the requirement for the category and told him 73s were not authorized for "B" Westerns, but a list of those long guns that do and are qualified for the category were listed in the shooters handbook. The MD overheard and said I shouldn't have said anything because that shooter may not come back again. They may just be monthly matches at a local club, but I believe instilling rules, regulation, and safety start at the bottom, so when the shooter goes to a larger match, or one outside their regular monthlies, they will be in compliance and still be able to enjoy the game.  MT

 

I have seen at local matches somebody shooting B-western without spurs or some other dress violation and have told them about it but never pushed it to the point of telling they can not shoot. I told them they needed to correct it by the next shoot or before they go to a bigger match. However, I would tell that they have to switch categories if they were using the wrong guns or ammo for classic cowboy or B-western at a local match or anywhere else. The same would go for their holsters if they were not the correct type. Something minor that would not give them an advantage over another shooter gets a warning, something major need to be addressed. If they are a repeat offender, then having the match director having a talk with them would be warranted.

 

Note: Sometimes exceptions are made for local matches for different reasons. One local match, myself and the only other person modified the B-western rules as a duel between us, He stated he could beat me if he used his 73, and I said fine, but no boots and spurs as I was having problems with my knee from surgery (I wore tennis shoes). I had a marlin jam and he won, and then he went to dualist and I never got to avenge my loss. It was just for bragging rights anyway.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

This isn't about "pushing" or being a a-hole or a so called rule nazi or any other name you put on it.

It isn't a difficult thing to do. 

If you see something amiss with a shooter, bring it to their attention. They may be ignorant of the rule or have an exemption.

If they choose to ignore your friendly advise..... Then make the call when the shooter is done at the firing line.

If it is a shooter on another posse then proceed directly to a Match Official.

 

If you are knowingly in violation of any rule and no one else sees it, then you have a choice...... Continue to cheat and live with yourself or clean up your act.

 

If you think a rule is unfair or improperly worded, then take the matter to your Territorial Governor. They are there to represent you and present your point to SASS. 

 

 

[Blackey Cole]

You know how hard it is to find thin light glove that are sass legal to shoot in

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Just now, Blackey Cole said:

You know how hard it is to find thin light glove that are sass legal to shoot in

Lowes/Home Depot carry a very nice deerskin glove that is under #10.00.

 

[Blackey Cole]

I got some but too thick for me to get fat finger in trigger guard

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

2 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Hi, Allie, Yes I was told the same, that I shouldn't have said anything. Same for a shooter that signed up for "B" western shooting a 73. I very kindly asked if he knew the requirement for the category and told him 73s were not authorized for "B" Westerns, but a list of those long guns that do and are qualified for the category were listed in the shooters handbook. The MD overheard and said I shouldn't have said anything because that shooter may not come back again. They may just be monthly matches at a local club, but I believe instilling rules, regulation, and safety start at the bottom, so when the shooter goes to a larger match, or one outside their regular monthlies, they will be in compliance and still be able to enjoy the game.  MT

You should likely talk to the match director first on issues like this that can result in a SDQ or MDQ, before the match starts and to your Posse Marshall during the match.

[Yusta B.]

36 minutes ago, Blackey Cole said:

You know how hard it is to find thin light glove that are sass legal to shoot in

5 minutes. Just cut the wrist tension flaps off the back.

 

https://www.amazon.com/First-Manufacturing-Lightweight-Driving-XX-Large/dp/B0052AXZJG

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

52 minutes ago, Gold Canyon Kid #43974 said:

You should likely talk to the match director first on issues like this that can result in a SDQ or MDQ, before the match starts and to your Posse Marshall during the match.

You must not have read the complete post. The MD overheard everything and was there on these issues. Rather then lose a shooter, overlook. It was also before the match started.

I'm also the type to rather talk to someone, rather then go higher. On these, I didn't realize the MD was behind me and overheard these issues. I am also one that would if I made a mistake or wasn't in compliance, have someone tell me, rather then go higher. At least give the shooter a chance, and avoid embarrassment in case they me didn't know. MT