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Grouchy Spike

Cowboys/Cowgirls - what would attract you to Wild Bunch?

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Cowboys and cowgirls, I think that this thread has run it's course, served my purpose when I posted it.  I hope that you  have picked up on some ideas to support WBAS, to increase the participation by club members (and guests too).  The community is more healthy when it has cohesion and a common goal such as More Shooting and More Fun.  It's OK to disagree, sometimes we must agree to disagree and move on.

 

Many thanks for your responses  all of which have contributed to the accomplishment my objectives, and which should have served you too.  I also appreciate the opportunity to chat with you, having seen most if not all of your posts on the forum.  I look forward to meeting all y'all (that's plural) in person, and at a match whether CAS or WBAS.  Keep the Faith, God bless the Republic, and the Dominion too!

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11 minutes ago, Gold Canyon Kid #43974 said:

This whole thread seems to have lost focus.  Ideas were given and posters with ideas were prompty told to forget it (would have used different words but this is an all age forum), we aren't changing. Why continue?

GCK, your reply arrived as I posted.  I might respectfully disagree that the thread has lost focus.  But I do agree that we've exhausted the contributions. 

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2 hours ago, Jackaroo, # 29989 said:

It's not about the fear LPG, it's about you and others changing the rules to suit those who want them changed so they can shoot what THEY want, at the expense of others.

I think you'll find a lot more seniors in our sport than those other pistol sports  you are trying to emulate.? 

And who says those rule changes will attract more shooters? It might be quite the opposite, and you may find existing WB shooters don't want that, and stop doing WB matches! 

Just to put my spin on that, if they are changed to those rules then I'd probably give it away? Our rules are safer, and they are quite adequate.

i see absolutely no advantage in changing anything, ...just the view from my saddle.

So your 'fix', is to do nut'n. :o

That ain't much of a solution. <_<

After WBAS RC came into power with their attitude-WB numbers drop'd like a lead ingot. They kept dropping too. Look how little traffic there is on the WB Forum, that should be the biggest 'tell'.

"Our rules are safer"- really, sez who? What's your source of info for that statement?

" I see absolutely no advantage in changing anything" -Seriously:ohow's about more shooters participating. Since when would that not be an advantage.

As it stands now-WB is headed towards the same cliff edge as SASS mounted shooting went over, all because of the 'we ain't gonna change anything' head in the sand attitude.:rolleyes:

I'm done here-

OLG

 

 

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I have never understood why WB has an entirely separate forum outside of the main SASS website, not just a link on the homepage.  I am frequently on the SASS Wire, but rarely visit the WB forum.  I would expect that the traffic on the WB forum would increase if it was its own sub forum. WB could retain it's unique identify, while gaining greater visibility. I can't find good stats on the SASS wire but at the moment it looks like approximately 40 people are online here, as compared to 16 on the WB forum.  I say this as someone that wants to shoot both cowboy and WB. 

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More shooters interested in WB than the small number of y'all that are keeping this topic alive ;):lol:

 

IMHO

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Just for total conjecturizing...

 

Let's say that the movie the Wild Bunch is remade. And it is made as a correct period piece, not some modern-day remake. Certainly not unreasonable to pose this. Let's also say it is done well and is fairly well received by the general population. Not superhero movie level of success, but receives good ratings and makes a solid profit and lasts in theaters for several weeks.

 

Would WBAS in any way be able to seize this opportunity and capitalize on it? Would WBAS even be in any kind of position to market itself to the masses to try and gain some kind of increasing interest in the WBAS game, outside of trying to just get CAS shooters involved?

 

Hypothetically speaking the opportunity would be excellent. Could it be done? Would it be done? Should it be done?

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Here are my suggestions:

1) Allow .38/.357 lever guns.

2) Allow 1911's beyond the 5 inch .45. There are lots of 1911's of  Commander size and 1911's chambered in 9mm/38 super/10mm/.40 S&W.

3) Allow non-1911 period correct pistols. Lugers, Broom Handle Mausers, etc.

 

In my opinion just these three equipment changes above would allow more CAS shooters to participant without buying new guns.

 

Now this next suggestion may disturb the purists. But what the heck:) On a local level I suggest you consider a "Modern" class or Urban Cowboy Division. Any pistol, pistol caliber carbine and pump shotgun with legal ammo. This would encourage interested shooters to try out the game with the guns they already own.

 

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Hi Folks,

 

At our monthly WB matches, we do have an open category where 38s can be used in the rifle. Also, I have seen 9mm in the pistol.

 

We have a five-stage main match where the magazines are loaded with 5 rounds. Then there is an optional, really fun, well attended, separately scored sixth stage. It has approximately 65 targets and you can load the magazine with 7. It is shooter's choice of guns, gun order, and order of engagement. All targets are Comstock, even non-reactive targets. You can use two rifles and two SGs if you like. The only mandatory thing is a SG must be used on the clays, if any. One fellow, who usually wins it, shoots it all, except the birds and their KDs with his 1911. It is really fun to shoot and watch how others shoot it.

 

We also have it as a side match at the annual (CA State WBAS). Then, you must use WBAS-legal guns.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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20 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

 

At our monthly WB matches, we do have an open category where 38s can be used in the rifle. Also, I have seen 9mm in the pistol.

 

We have a five-stage main match where the magazines are loaded with 5 rounds. Then there is an optional, really fun, well attended, separately scored sixth stage. It has approximately 65 targets and you can load the magazine with 7. It is shooter's choice of guns, gun order, and order of engagement. All targets are Comstock, even non-reactive targets. You can use two rifles and two SGs if you like. The only mandatory thing is a SG must be used on the clays, if any. One fellow, who usually wins it, shoots it all, except the birds and their KDs with his 1911. It is really fun to shoot and watch how others shoot it.

 

We also have it as a side match at the annual (CA State WBAS). Then, you must use WBAS-legal guns.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

Allie, in the local match could I use 10 round mags loaded with 5, they do stick out the magwell a bit?  I don't have 7 round mags :rolleyes:

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9 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Allie, in the local match could I use 10 round mags loaded with 5, they do stick out the magwell a bit?  I don't have 7 round mags :rolleyes:

Hi Doc,

 

I don't know. Ask, the Pres. and MD, Sutter Lawman. My guess is yes as, at monthlies, he allows a variety of guns and I have seen illegal magazines (with base pads) before. You can find his email on the following Website, under local clubs, clubs at Cowboy Town, Gold Country WB.

http://www.californiagunslingers.com/

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

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42 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

 

At our monthly WB matches, we do have an open category where 38s can be used in the rifle. Also, I have seen 9mm in the pistol.

 

We have a five-stage main match where the magazines are loaded with 5 rounds. Then there is an optional, really fun, well attended, separately scored sixth stage. It has approximately 65 targets and you can load the magazine with 7. It is shooter's choice of guns, gun order, and order of engagement. All targets are Comstock, even non-reactive targets. You can use two rifles and two SGs if you like. The only mandatory thing is a SG must be used on the clays, if any. One fellow, who usually wins it, shoots it all, except the birds and their KDs with his 1911. It is really fun to shoot and watch how others shoot it.

 

We also have it as a side match at the annual (CA State WBAS). Then, you must use WBAS-legal guns.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Awesome, Allie Mo! The optional stage looks like the cat's meow.  Were I there I'd want to be at the head of the queue for that stage.  And asking to shoot it twice!  Goatneck Clem uses a similar scenario in his Texas match design, but with fewer targets.  It's a hoot.

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9 minutes ago, Grouchy Spike said:

Awesome, Allie Mo! The optional stage looks like the cat's meow.  Were I there I'd want to be at the head of the queue for that stage.  And asking to shoot it twice!  Goatneck Clem uses a similar scenario in his Texas match design, but with fewer targets.  It's a hoot.

Hi GS,

 

I am usually last at WBAS matches and I still love this. I once shot it with two SGs and a rifle. I won't do that again. The options are many.

 

It is also B) to have a clean stage with the stationary, non reactive targets being Comstock.

 

Try it you'll like it. It is like a True Grit WBAS stage.

 

Regards,

 

AM

 

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I wanted to chime in on this topic.  I am very new to the world of SASS and Wild Bunch shooting and I am interested in both.  I attended my first local club meeting this month and will be heading out to a practice in the next couple weeks.  This thread was brought up at the meeting and I read through the entire thing.  I am hoping my fresh perspective could help attract more to this sport. 

As far as Wild Bunch shooting I think if any pre-1918 firearms were allowed it would make getting into it a lot easier for those starting out.  There are many military surplus firearms that could qualify.  These can be had for a much lower price and could attract new shooters. 

I also think it would make it a little more interesting if you allow other handguns besides just 1911.  There maybe those who do not like this platform and never want to buy one but would use a double action revolver instead.  Allowing other types of shotguns would make this easier as well and opening up the rifle options. 

As stated earlier, I am interested in doing SASS and Wild Bunch shooting.  I am little more interested in SASS; however, I already have a 1911, but if the rifle category was a little more relaxed I have a lever action .38 or a Mosin Nagant already that I could use and I have a double barrel shotgun but in 20 gauge.  If all of those were legal I could be shooting in the next match.  But as it stands now I have to get 2 additional firearms which is not a cost I can float right now. 

Hope this helps out!

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4 hours ago, San Joaquin Shootist said:

Here are my suggestions:

1) Allow .38/.357 lever guns.

2) Allow 1911's beyond the 5 inch .45. There are lots of 1911's of  Commander size and 1911's chambered in 9mm/38 super/10mm/.40 S&W.

3) Allow non-1911 period correct pistols. Lugers, Broom Handle Mausers, etc.

 

In my opinion just these three equipment changes above would allow more CAS shooters to participant without buying new guns.

 

Now this next suggestion may disturb the purists. But what the heck:) On a local level I suggest you consider a "Modern" class or Urban Cowboy Division. Any pistol, pistol caliber carbine and pump shotgun with legal ammo. This would encourage interested shooters to try out the game with the guns they already own.

 

 

You mention purists. This could mean WBAS purists as the game is or I could presume this to mean Wild Bunch movie purists from which WBAS is based? If the latter, wouldn't a true purist allow ANY firearm used in the original movie?

 

List of said firearms...

 

 

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16 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 

You mention purists. This could mean WBAS purists as the game is or I could presume this to mean Wild Bunch movie purists from which WBAS is based? If the latter, wouldn't a true purist allow ANY firearm used in the original movie?

 

List of said firearms...

 

 

 

I took the liberty of copying and pasting the list from the IMFDB site that Dantankerous posted. Of course the last 2 wouldn't be used....but how cool would that be? 

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For what it's worth and like many I have done both. When we put on a match I really like to watch and listen to the people shooting........they will let you know if you observe. Here's what I have picked up on.

 

You have to buy a 45 rifle when you can get (or virtually get) PF with a 38

 

Matches are harder to setup and take longer to shoot because the extra brass from 15 - 20 pistols, 4 -6 Shotgun, 5 - 10 rifle and 2 -3 magazines. (It's hard to get a brass picker for 10 rifle and 4 SG hulls..........lol). So its a longer day.

 

If you do WB right you can't shoot SASS on the same setup so you have to cancel the SASS match or hold WB on a different day.....or I guess juggle targets but you get the point. Trying to intermix the two is pure kaos where both parties suffer.

 

Get away from the SDQ's for not showing the Mod 12 is cocked

 

Last I hear the 7 round thing a lot........don't get that at all.....never hear that on the range. A 1911 can have many different mag counts and I don't see the "fun" factor changing because there are 2 more rounds in the mag. Plus many OR most of the shooters come form SASS where 5 is the norm and switching it to 7 (like it or not) along with the extra pistols count of 15- 20 makes the stages difficult for many. Add to that the targets are farther and it's a cumulative effect.......so changing the round count will just make it harder yet.

 

If you start holding matches where the rules are too similar and yet too different you create problems and that forces many folks to "choose" one or the other to prevent getting the too mixed up in the heat of competition. Things like forgetting to show a mod 12 is not cocked when their MM SASS gun is a 97, or laying a 1911 down but holstering revolvers, SG loaded in one empty in the other etc are a few that come to mind.

 

You can say things like people should be able to handle that, or that makes you a better shooter  or lots of things like that but IMO if it's too hard......people stop coming and that's just reality....the fun factor has to be there.

 

It started out here great but we had to really fight to keep the numbers up........I hope you figure out why.....and I hope this helps.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cowboy Junky said:

For what it's worth and like many I have done both. When we put on a match I really like to watch and listen to the people shooting........they will let you know if you observe. Here's what I have picked up on.

 

You have to buy a 45 rifle when you can get (or virtually get) PF with a 38

 

Matches are harder to setup and take longer to shoot because the extra brass from 15 - 20 pistols, 4 -6 Shotgun, 5 - 10 rifle and 2 -3 magazines. (It's hard to get a brass picker for 10 rifle and 4 SG hulls..........lol). So its a longer day.

 

If you do WB right you can't shoot SASS on the same setup so you have to cancel the SASS match or hold WB on a different day.....or I guess juggle targets but you get the point. Trying to intermix the two is pure kaos where both parties suffer.

 

Get away from the SDQ's for not showing the Mod 12 is cocked

 

Last I hear the 7 round thing a lot........don't get that at all.....never hear that on the range. A 1911 can have many different mag counts and I don't see the "fun" factor changing because there are 2 more rounds in the mag. Plus many OR most of the shooters come form SASS where 5 is the norm and switching it to 7 (like it or not) along with the extra pistols count of 15- 20 makes the stages difficult for many. Add to that the targets are farther and it's a cumulative effect.......so changing the round count will just make it harder yet.

 

If you start holding matches where the rule are too similar but too different you create problems and that forces many folks to "choose" one or the other to prevent getting the too mixed up in the heat of competition. Things like forgetting to show a mod 12 is not cocked when their MM SASS gun is a 97, or laying a 1911 down but holstering revolvers, SG loaded in one empty in the other etc are a few that come to mind.

 

It started out here great but we had to really fight to keep the numbers up........I hope you figure out why.....and I hope this helps.

 

 

 

When you use the SASS recommended distances for targets, it ain't that hard to do.

The dedicated 2 extra WB  pistol targets, are a different shape that the others The SASS shooters know not to engage'em.

The 1911 in .45acp was built to hold 7 in the mag. Reducing to 5 makes NO SENSE at all. The same as only loading from 'slide-lock', AKA empty gun. That, and WB forces one to alter a SG to hold more rounds than what the gun was made to hold when it left the factory.

Many(including me)carry a 1911 for CCW. What SASS rules do is a conflict with common sense, and many years of training & muscle memory.

OLG

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My take is that most that might be interested here have been saying the rules need a change.  WB says we want to draw people elsewhere than SASS.  Well and fine but that is going to be harder than drawing more CAS people in.

I never really got the PF thing, this isb supposed to be fun not some test.  You want that then make it separate likeb HeMan division of 3 gun.

 

I liked the idea of Major and Minor.

 

Well before get too carried away my take is that WB RC needs to really listen and take action.

In places where there is not a current dedicated WB match let a CAS club offer say Turn of the Century category, scored separate but allowing pistol/revolver 1900 to 1918.  Perhaps a wb style stage tossed in.  It avoids WB Committee saying not WB but if enough get interested then form a new WB club.

 

WBAS is dependent on CAS.  CAS needs to capitalize on every Western or pseudo Western to grab people.

 

End of soapbox.

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I wasn't bothered by the rules as I'd never shot a semi-auto pistol before. However, a SASS-shooting friend came to a WB match once. He did not like the rules about tactical reloads and anything that varied from best practices for carrying a loaded gun. He would have been an asset to the sport and is a great guy! 

 

BTW, he was one of the "Governator's" body guards. So, he was experienced with using guns.

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1 hour ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I keep hearing a whacking sound...

You sure it ain't a buzz'n sound from all the flies ----- :lol:

OLG

 

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4 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I keep hearing a whacking sound...

Is it the sound of the horse being beat to death?  :)

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On 6/16/2017 at 0:30 PM, Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138 said:

For me the thing that make me more interested would be for a 1911 carried cocked and locked and a full mag and not loading from slide lock. If not I'm not that interested. Sorry if this has been brought up before, but my reason for not playing it.

 

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On 6/21/2017 at 7:45 AM, Cowboy Junky said:

For what it's worth and like many I have done both. When we put on a match I really like to watch and listen to the people shooting........they will let you know if you observe. Here's what I have picked up on.

 

You have to buy a 45 rifle when you can get (or virtually get) PF with a 38

 

Matches are harder to setup and take longer to shoot because the extra brass from 15 - 20 pistols, 4 -6 Shotgun, 5 - 10 rifle and 2 -3 magazines. (It's hard to get a brass picker for 10 rifle and 4 SG hulls..........lol). So its a longer day.

 

If you do WB right you can't shoot SASS on the same setup so you have to cancel the SASS match or hold WB on a different day.....or I guess juggle targets but you get the point. Trying to intermix the two is pure kaos where both parties suffer.

 

Get away from the SDQ's for not showing the Mod 12 is cocked

 

Last I hear the 7 round thing a lot........don't get that at all.....never hear that on the range. A 1911 can have many different mag counts and I don't see the "fun" factor changing because there are 2 more rounds in the mag. Plus many OR most of the shooters come form SASS where 5 is the norm and switching it to 7 (like it or not) along with the extra pistols count of 15- 20 makes the stages difficult for many. Add to that the targets are farther and it's a cumulative effect.......so changing the round count will just make it harder yet.

 

If you start holding matches where the rules are too similar and yet too different you create problems and that forces many folks to "choose" one or the other to prevent getting the too mixed up in the heat of competition. Things like forgetting to show a mod 12 is not cocked when their MM SASS gun is a 97, or laying a 1911 down but holstering revolvers, SG loaded in one empty in the other etc are a few that come to mind.

 

You can say things like people should be able to handle that, or that makes you a better shooter  or lots of things like that but IMO if it's too hard......people stop coming and that's just reality....the fun factor has to be there.

 

It started out here great but we had to really fight to keep the numbers up........I hope you figure out why.....and I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Jackaroo, # 29989 said:

Bwahaha :D so what if it was made to hold 7? You've obviously never run or managed a big match. What about all the extra brass to collect, what about be extra time factor involved in shoot say an extra 42 rounds in a 6 mag pistol string? Think about the lady senior traditional shooters who have to hold up their arm for a longer period and even now can be hard  to do. Think outside the square man. It more than you think?

You do NOT know me or my background.:angry:  STOP with all the insults!

Your math is way off 'ol boy. :lol: It will add 12 rounds at the most to a 6 mag(2X6=12)string. Most of our WB shoots are 4 mags for the 1911. Also we shot 4-6 stages of WB. When we had them

Now go have another cup of coffee, and calm down......:rolleyes:

OLG

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Jackaroo, Gentemen, Tone it down, please. Insults do no one any good. If they persist I will step in and edit or remove posts.

 

There is no reason that a civil discussion cannot be conducted in this regard. People have opinions. Disagree, but do it respectfully.

 

Thank you.

Pat Riot

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My take-away from reading (and offering an opinion on this thread):  it seems that the WB RC is open to conducting your local WB matches in accordance with what your local club feels is appropriate and desired by your local shooting community.  (7 rnd 1911 mags, <.40 caliber rifles, double action or other period auto-loaders, etc.), under the guise of an "OPEN" category.  That seems fine for the local shooter, but does little to enhance attendance at bigger, Regional, National or World events.  A stance that's akin to "put your horse in front of the cart!"  IOW, SHOW us that your suggestions enhance, rather than take away from the game as the rules currently set in place.  Take a long term view... be glad they didn't limit the 1911s to just that... mdl 1911s.  The -A1 was a vast improvement... ;)  I look at it this way... have ALL the changes in CAS improved or increased participation in the game?  How many of y'all wouldn't have joined or participated if either a short-stroked rifle or pistol had NEVER been approved?  Do ANY of y'all even know WHY they were approved in the first place?  (PWB, you're exempted)... :P:D

 

Many of the rules in place make sense to me... showing the model 12 has the hammer down, provides the proof there isn't a round chambered.  Unlike the hammerless double in CAS, the action isn't open.  Since this isn't a "shoot til hit" game, shooting the 1911 to slide lock, provides proof that all rounds have been expended at that point, putting the open gun down at the end of a string also provides proof that the gun was shot empty and no chance for a loaded gun to be holstered, movement only with the slide back does the same, finger outside the trigger guard during movement might be a case of double jeopardy, but, goes a long way to ensure one complies with parts 2 & 3 of that same uncommon good sense habit of reloading or clearing a malfunction with the finger outside the trigger guard.   (Those would be a good enhancement to safety for CAS, IMO).

 

I would certainly hope that the WB Rules Committee wouldn't change ANY rule without some proof positive that said change would improve the game and/or increase participation.  (Except maybe that rifle hammer thing... I only wanted allowance for a cosmetic change... heck how often does one even touch the hammer on a rifle during a shooting string)?:P:D:D

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Apologies to OLG and GCK for my comments they were not intended in that way at all. 

Sorry

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25 minutes ago, Jackaroo, # 29989 said:

Apologies to OLG and GCK for my comments they were not intended in that way at all. 

Sorry

If you are truly sincere in these apologies-Just maybe, you should edit the posts that are now in question.

You also owe Texas John Ringo an apology. You Jackaroo, are not the one to judge what is, or 'ain't right for you'.

Jackaroo-You sound just like the current WBAS RC. Which is the 'road-block' in bringing in new WB shooters.

Carry on,

I'm done with this 'dead horse'.....

OLG

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I am sincere in my apologies. To all I am truly upset in all my comments I don't what came over me maybe too much Dutch courage but that's no excuse, after reading them back I hang my head,i will delete them they should not be there,

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If you were playing basketball but wanted the traveling rule changed, and the rules committee said 'No way!' your choice would be to STOP playing basketball or CREATE another game which modifies that rule change and then endeavor to find players for it, enjoy it if successful.  Did I miss a choice here? 

 

What if no one else wanted to play the different game?  It would be time to numb the ego, raise the white flag of surrender and return to the sanctioned basketball rules; or STOP playing both games, one by choice the other dictated by circumstances - you'd be playing alone.

 

With practice in that different game should you create one, you could become proficient but if you ever played in the original game again, I predict that you'd eventually be called for a penalty.  Significant deviation from WB rules offer a similar potential risk of penalty.  Different game, maybe slightly, but different.

 

Subscribing to the theory that one must enter the church before one can be baptized, I am of the opinion that some relaxed rules (rifle caliber, shotgun gauge and model, maybe even pistol type and caliber) local club matches MIGHT induce newbies to join a new game, enjoy some shooting, and transition to the SASS legal WB game.  Even if they don't transition, but continue to play in club matches, they see additional Value from playing with what they brung.  Recall earlier replies which described this.

 

I'm not addressing State + matches, which require strict adherence to WB rules.  I'm talking club matches only.  If the club says "No way!" to relaxed rules, then we're back to the choices I described about basketball.  Like it or not, your desires will not have been accommodated. Either play by the club rules, or stop playing, or work on overcoming the disappointment so that you CAN play.  Am I missing something? Do I have tunnel vision? 

 

I sometimes struggle with the practice called 'shooting myself in the foot' when my ego feels assaulted, so I'm not throwing rocks, merely saying that I can experience a similar situation and I can understand the disappointment.
 

Is anybody up to hosting a side match (assuming the club agrees) to 'shoot what you brung'?  Start somewhere, but start with an distant eye to participation in Wild Bunch matches and side matches.  The success of any game is largely determined by how well the club (and SASS) cash registers rings with match fees.  It's an entertainment business!  Make it entertaining!

 

Thanks again for your interest and your responses.

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1 hour ago, Grouchy Spike said:

If you were playing basketball but wanted the traveling rule changed, and the rules committee said 'No way!' your choice would be to STOP playing basketball or CREATE another game which modifies that rule change and then endeavor to find players for it, enjoy it if successful.  Did I miss a choice here? Yes, SASS has encouraged folks to try things locally and then, if successful, bring them to the broader membership. I was told that one of our local clubs started the 49er category. Now, it is official.

 

What if no one else wanted to play the different game?  It would be time to numb the ego, raise the white flag of surrender and return to the sanctioned basketball rules; or STOP playing both games, one by choice the other dictated by circumstances - you'd be playing alone. True. However, refer to my previous comment. There is nothing wrong with discussing potential game changes. I find it particularly helpful to bring in up on the SASS site rather than the WBAS site, as the people on this site may not yet be hooked on WBAS.

 

With practice in that different game should you create one, you could become proficient but if you ever played in the original game again, I predict that you'd eventually be called for a penalty.  Significant deviation from WB rules offer a similar potential risk of penalty.  Different game, maybe slightly, but different. No argument here. However, I shoot a .38 rifle at monthly matches and know better than to do it at the State match, which we host at my home venue. About all of the rules other than gun and magazine type requirements, I think they should be enforced to not result in confusion.

 

Subscribing to the theory that one must enter the church before one can be baptized, I am of the opinion that some relaxed rules (rifle caliber, shotgun gauge and model, maybe even pistol type and caliber) local club matches MIGHT induce newbies to join a new game, enjoy some shooting, and transition to the SASS legal WB game.  Even if they don't transition, but continue to play in club matches, they see additional Value from playing with what they brung.  Recall earlier replies which described this. Right on, brother!

 

I'm not addressing State + matches, which require strict adherence to WB rules.  I'm talking club matches only.  If the club says "No way!" to relaxed rules, then we're back to the choices I described about basketball.  Like it or not, your desires will not have been accommodated. Either play by the club rules, or stop playing, or work on overcoming the disappointment so that you CAN play.  Am I missing something? Do I have tunnel vision? I feel that gun and magazine type rules should be relaxed until shooters have time to decide if the game is for them. About the other rules, I agree they should be enforced. That said, I'm sorry that I haven't seen my friend who didn't like the "tactical reload" rule.

 

I sometimes struggle with the practice called 'shooting myself in the foot' when my ego feels assaulted, so I'm not throwing rocks, merely saying that I can experience a similar situation and I can understand the disappointment. LOL! I've been accused of "'shooting myself in the foot" too.

 

Is anybody up to hosting a side match (assuming the club agrees) to 'shoot what you brung'?  Start somewhere, but start with an distant eye to participation in Wild Bunch matches and side matches.  The success of any game is largely determined by how well the club (and SASS) cash registers rings with match fees.  It's an entertainment business!  Make it entertaining! Certain things can be modified without losing the intent of the rules. Again, I believe opening the gun and magazine type requirements could be changed to be more inclusive.  

 

Thanks again for your interest and your responses. Thank you for initiating the discussion.

 

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Good discussion!  This year at the GA State Championship match I shot the WB side match and was luckily enough to picked up a third-place buckle.  I hope the activity on the thread is an indication of the interest in the topic. I would like the opportunity to shoot WB more than once a year. 

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4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

If you were playing basketball but wanted the traveling rule changed, and the rules committee said 'No way!' your choice would be to STOP playing basketball or CREATE another game which modifies that rule change and then endeavor to find players for it, enjoy it if successful.  Did I miss a choice here? 

But...   The travelling rule is never enforced.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

What if no one else wanted to play the different game?  It would be time to numb the ego, raise the white flag of surrender and return to the sanctioned basketball rules; or STOP playing both games, one by choice the other dictated by circumstances - you'd be playing alone.

That's exactly why a lot of people quit playing Wild Bunch.   It used to be a lot of fun, but for some reason, SASS didn't like the way people played it, so they created rules.  A lotta people stopped playing when they did that.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

With practice in that different game should you create one, you could become proficient but if you ever played in the original game again, I predict that you'd eventually be called for a penalty.  Significant deviation from WB rules offer a similar potential risk of penalty.  Different game, maybe slightly, but different.

Well, that's true.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

Subscribing to the theory that one must enter the church before one can be baptized, I am of the opinion that some relaxed rules (rifle caliber, shotgun gauge and model, maybe even pistol type and caliber) local club matches MIGHT induce newbies to join a new game, enjoy some shooting, and transition to the SASS legal WB game.  Even if they don't transition, but continue to play in club matches, they see additional Value from playing with what they brung.  Recall earlier replies which described this.

I know many people who have been baptized in lakes, rivers, ponds and even swimming pools.   But I'm a Baptist.   :)

 

On the other hand, the Pre SASS style of Wild Bunch was a lotta fun because it was so wide open with how it was played.  Going to the SASS WB is going to a much less interesting game.   If you can actually FIND a pre-SASS style WB anymore, you'll likely wanna stay with that.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

I'm not addressing State + matches, which require strict adherence to WB rules.  I'm talking club matches only.  If the club says "No way!" to relaxed rules, then we're back to the choices I described about basketball.  Like it or not, your desires will not have been accommodated. Either play by the club rules, or stop playing, or work on overcoming the disappointment so that you CAN play.  Am I missing something? Do I have tunnel vision? 

Nope.  I agree with evrything you have said here.  Back in the day, each club had specific rules, and you played by them or did not play.  It worked well.

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

I sometimes struggle with the practice called 'shooting myself in the foot' when my ego feels assaulted, so I'm not throwing rocks, merely saying that I can experience a similar situation and I can understand the disappointment.
 

 

A fair assessment of things.  :)

 

 

4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

Is anybody up to hosting a side match (assuming the club agrees) to 'shoot what you brung'?  Start somewhere, but start with an distant eye to participation in Wild Bunch matches and side matches.  The success of any game is largely determined by how well the club (and SASS) cash registers rings with match fees.  It's an entertainment business!  Make it entertaining!

There are still a few.   Just fewer and farther between.  You gotta hunt for them.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said:

Thanks again for your interest and your responses.

You are most welcome.

 

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