Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Grouchy Spike

Cowboys/Cowgirls - what would attract you to Wild Bunch?

Recommended Posts

34 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

This has been a very interesting post.  Without doubt some rule changes could be made to facilitate drawing a few more shooters.  However, a lot of the posts demonstrate one of the tenants of WB, i.e., to forestall an equipment race.  For example, from an earlier post:

 

"That concept could give rise to a Military Match as compared to a Wild Bunch Match: military revolvers as well as semiautos and military rifles maybe through WW1 although if your run that out to WW2 it could include the P38 and Webley and Nambu etc and the BAMM rifles already in possession by many; military shotguns including the humpback Browning semi and modern clone as well as those SxS and pump SGs already in use."

 

So, will the shooters be wearing Nazi uniforms or Japanese uniforms or British Tommy uniforms?  If the field of usable firearms is completely open what does it have to do with SASS?  At that point it is just a bunch of guys and gals out shooting guns.  I can go to a public range and do that any day of the week.  The WB rules may need tweaking but some of the suggestions made would completely destroy what WB is and was intended to be.  WB has a small but dedicated following.  An "anything goes" type of format would probably drive people out of WB rather than bringing new people in.

 

To put it simply, in my opinion, Wild Bunch should have a cut off of World War One, not World War Two.  Taking it that far is too far.   But by limiting it to things that existed no later than 1918, it is still workable, keeping in with the spirit of the movie, and most of all, has been proven to work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

I think Wild Bunch is a fantastic concept and would be a lot of fun. On another note I was very interested in Zoot Shooters competitions but I am not buying a Thompson to play and that seems to be the "gun of choice" for that shooting sport. When shooting a concept genre but only catering to one type of small arm people limit the expansion of it. Yes, there must be restrictions and rules but opening things up a bit more to include "safe" and realistic guns of the era might attract more enthusiasm. How many people would shoot CAS if one could only use Colt revolvers, '73 Winchesters & clones and 97 shotguns?

 

 

 

Zoot is similar to "pre-SASS" Wild Bunch, but it is not the same thing.   In general, the cut off date for allowable firearms in Zoot is 1949, wheras in "pre-SASS" Wild Bunch the cutoff was usually either 1918 or occasionally 1921.

 

And while the Thompson is very popular in Zoot, it is not a requirement.   While I have used both types of Thompsons in Zoot, I have also used a Russian PPSh-43 and a Broomhandle Mauser with a 20 round magazine and shoulder stock as my rifle.  I have also seen people using M-1 Carbines, British Sterlings, Winchester 1905's, Browning Automatic Rifles, and a few other odd things.   You can also use your standard cowboy rifles, and the stages are actually written with both types of guns in mind.  The way the targets are arrainged and engaged is very differenet from CAS, pre-SASS or even SASS official Wild Bunch, making it for a very different game.  If you can find a place where it is done, give it a try.  You'll find it to be enjoyable.   Sadly, the one club near me that does it has switched to Sunday's, so I am out of the game for now.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello cowboys and cowgirls, while we are on the subject of Wild Bunch note that the 2017 Texas State Wild Bunch Match will be hosted Nov 4th and 5th at the Comanche Valley Vigilantes/Lone Star Frontier Shooting Club on Ormsby Ranch near Cleburne.  Details will be posted on the SASS Events Wire and the Wild Bunch Matches Forum:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a monthly Rough Rider match which draws 20-25 shooters and we have the NYS WB match which closed out at 60 shooters.  NOTHING about our matches are cowboy 1911 which is why I like it.  The CAS rifle targets are our pistol targets, the rifle targets are further out or smaller odd shapes (snakes, buzzards, 8" circle).   We have movers, swingers, double bird poppers, single bird poppers, rabbits, plate racks and knockup targets.  We shoot different pistol sequences not only from the rifle pattern but from one pistol position to another.  In 4 yrs we have yet to have a clean match & our state match this year I believe had an average of 36 misses per shooter in a 10 stage match.  But thats the fun of it, where else can you walk off the stage with 3 misses & think that was a good stage?!  I would not be interested in shooting WB w/targets as close & big as some of the CAS shoots (but I damn sure love shooting big & close targets if I am shooting CAS)!  Too me the lure of our Rough Rider shoots is that they are so different than our CAS shoots and so challenging.

 

Rough Riders for us is any main match rifle and an open category for certain DA revolvers (not sure the requirement).  The rifle requirement definitely needs to be changed to allow any CAS legal rifle.  People will spend $400 on a 1911 (I have a cheap little Rock Island that I love) & $400 on a 97/12 but they dont want to spend another $1200 on a rifle & then have to reload for that.  When we fly we dont have room to add another rifle just for WB so we only shoot WB at our club.  As for shooting it as a side match at big shoots that we drive to we dont shoot it because there generally isnt enough time to shoot CAS warmups, speed events and WB.  Plus if they have you shoot the same stage as the CAS warmup there is absolutely no challenge in that as its literally just cowboy 1911 & I would rather shoot CAS.  

 

I also like the suggestion of only 5 in the shotgun so people can use their main match shotgun if they shoot a 97 w/o having to modify it.

 

Our NYS WB match at 60 shooters I believe is the biggest on the east coast.  But there is talk that after next year (our 5th yr) we may just go on our own and have a NYS Rough Rider match instead of WB.  We dont feel WB is listening to our shooters concerns, they have too many requirements we dont agree with (costume contest, ads, etc) & we can do it our way better.  We have limited volunteers putting on these shoots & having costume contests shoved on us that take up time & volunteers is not something we think is a priority.  Just my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just dont have time to shoot WB. I have the equipment, not the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Renegade Roper, nice participation in the NY State WB match!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1st a couple of observations:  I can't stand an 1897 shotgun.  Hate 'em.  But, I love the 1911... so... I bought a 1897 TTN Trench gun, holds 6 rounds in the mag.  Now have 2 other 1897s, neither holds 6 rounds.  But... nothing in the rules precludes me from loading that last round from the belt.  (Anyone wanna trade 3 1897s (one broke) for one mdl 12 Riot gun?)   But, from the beginning, the 5 round pistol requirement has rankled.  Seriously, 5 rounds?  That's like putting training wheels on your ten speed road racing bike.  The condition 3 (loaded magazine, empty chamber) start doesn't bother me... as that's just like I was taught in the military... No, that ain't how I carry mine, but... all in all, I find that preferable to condition 1 without some sort of qualifier.  Now for the suggestions:

 

1.  Open up the Modern category to allow some of the more popular "stock" 1911s.  I've gotten 3 stock 1911s since I started WB... all qualify as Traditional guns, but... the mags that came with them aren't legal for use in any category.  I agree, keep the Traditional category for the purists, but why not allow bump pads on Modern category?  We ain't competing for the same Cadillac on the prize table, are we?  Magazines are a wear item... after some 30+ years of use I've had to toss some of mine...

 

2.  Allow a <.40 caliber if it meets the power factor.  158x950/1000=150.1.  Any cowboy shooter meeting that criteria WILL KNOW that he ain't at a cowboy match!

 

3.  Get rid of 5 round pistol limitation.  Expand your minds beyond "cowboy".  What?  The stages ain't LONG enough already?  Wait, maybe the ONLY thing you're good at is changing magazines? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Griff said:
13 minutes ago, Griff said:

1st a couple of observations:  I can't stand an 1897 shotgun.  Hate 'em.  But, I love the 1911... so... I bought a 1897 TTN Trench gun, holds 6 rounds in the mag.  Now have 2 other 1897s, neither holds 6 rounds.  But... nothing in the rules precludes me from loading that last round from the belt.  (Anyone wanna trade 3 1897s (one broke) for one mdl 12 Riot gun?)   But, from the beginning, the 5 round pistol requirement has rankled.  Seriously, 5 rounds?  That's like putting training wheels on your ten speed road racing bike.  The condition 3 (loaded magazine, empty chamber) start doesn't bother me... as that's just like I was taught in the military... No, that ain't how I carry mine, but... all in all, I find that preferable to condition 1 without some sort of qualifier.  Now for the suggestions:

 

1.  Open up the Modern category to allow some of the more popular "stock" 1911s.  I've gotten 3 stock 1911s since I started WB... all qualify as Traditional guns, but... the mags that came with them aren't legal for use in any category.  I agree, keep the Traditional category for the purists, but why not allow bump pads on Modern category?  We ain't competing for the same Cadillac on the prize table, are we?  Magazines are a wear item... after some 30+ years of use I've had to toss some of mine...

 

2.  Allow a <.40 caliber if it meets the power factor.  158x950/1000=150.1.  Any cowboy shooter meeting that criteria WILL KNOW that he ain't at a cowboy match!

 

3.  Get rid of 5 round pistol limitation.  Expand your minds beyond "cowboy".  What?  The stages ain't LONG enough already?  Wait, maybe the ONLY thing you're good at is changing magazines? 

 

Griff, thanks for the comments!  With a SASS number of 93, you've seen the evolution of SASS , CAS, and WB.

 

I'm signing off for the evening, cowboys and cowgirls, but please continue with your comments.  I don't know what effect this will have on the game, but no progress is made in improvements to the game unless the first step is taken!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jackaroo, # 29989 said:

May as well stay with cowboy then. You want the targets bigger and closer too? 

I think many have forgotten what the original concept was of WB was particular in NOT making like cowboy.!

Sorry but I respectfully disagree. And, having the targets further away would be just fine with me.  You are welcome to your opinion and even in cowboy the rules have changed over time. Perhaps everyone should keep an open mind. I think the original post was asking for ideas. Not sure about the "original concept" but my guess is it was not carved in stone never to be questioned again. Bottom line is I plan to shoot both WB and cowboy, with or without any changes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Griff said:

1st a couple of observations:  I can't stand an 1897 shotgun.  Hate 'em.  But, I love the 1911... so... I bought a 1897 TTN Trench gun, holds 6 rounds in the mag.  Now have 2 other 1897s, neither holds 6 rounds.  But... nothing in the rules precludes me from loading that last round from the belt.  (Anyone wanna trade 3 1897s (one broke) for one mdl 12 Riot gun?)   But, from the beginning, the 5 round pistol requirement has rankled.  Seriously, 5 rounds?  That's like putting training wheels on your ten speed road racing bike.  The condition 3 (loaded magazine, empty chamber) start doesn't bother me... as that's just like I was taught in the military... No, that ain't how I carry mine, but... all in all, I find that preferable to condition 1 without some sort of qualifier.  Now for the suggestions:

 

1.  Open up the Modern category to allow some of the more popular "stock" 1911s.  I've gotten 3 stock 1911s since I started WB... all qualify as Traditional guns, but... the mags that came with them aren't legal for use in any category.  I agree, keep the Traditional category for the purists, but why not allow bump pads on Modern category?  We ain't competing for the same Cadillac on the prize table, are we?  Magazines are a wear item... after some 30+ years of use I've had to toss some of mine...

 

2.  Allow a <.40 caliber if it meets the power factor.  158x950/1000=150.1.  Any cowboy shooter meeting that criteria WILL KNOW that he ain't at a cowboy match!

 

3.  Get rid of 5 round pistol limitation.  Expand your minds beyond "cowboy".  What?  The stages ain't LONG enough already?  Wait, maybe the ONLY thing you're good at is changing magazines? 

My main match Pistols used for Cowboy have a PF of 201.60 and my rifle a PF of 230.40  with one set-up the other is Pistol PF 259.20 Rifle PF of 330.48 ...

No WB is wimp loads ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

My main match Pistols used for Cowboy have a PF of 201.60 and my rifle a PF of 230.40  with one set-up the other is Pistol PF 259.20 Rifle PF of 330.48 ...

No WB is wimp loads ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

I doubt you're using a sub-.40! :D:P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Griff;

Pard the rifle with the PF of 230.40 is a .38-40 loaded with compressed loads of Goex 3F powder....

 

The second set is both in .45 colt loaded with 3f Goex  and 270 gr. RNFP bullets ...

The first pistols are my go to guns, Open-tops in .44 spl. with Navy grips and 7 1/2 inch barrels and boy what a sweet pair ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I was told that since there were no Lightnings used in the WB movie that they weren't legal for the game. Jackaroo reiterated it in one of his posts on this subject. Why no 16 gauge 1897's, they'll stoke and knockdown targets just like a 12 gauge will? 

From page 9 of the Wild Bunch shooters handbook.

"Rifles or carbines used in the main and team matches must be original or replicas of lever or slide action rifles manufactured during the period from approximately 1860 until 1899, incorporating a tubular magazine and exposed hammer. Rifles with box magazines may not be used. Rifle must be chambered in a pistol caliber of .40 or larger."

If I am not mistaken a Lightning is a slide action.  As I said before any SASS legal rifle in .40 caliber and above is legal.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How about offering a Major and a Minor class like other shooring sports?  The Major can be the current power factor and the minor can be low enough for 9mm and 38 special.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, J. Frank Norfleet said:

From page 9 of the Wild Bunch shooters handbook.

"Rifles or carbines used in the main and team matches must be original or replicas of lever or slide action rifles manufactured during the period from approximately 1860 until 1899, incorporating a tubular magazine and exposed hammer. Rifles with box magazines may not be used. Rifle must be chambered in a pistol caliber of .40 or larger."

If I am not mistaken a Lightning is a slide action.  As I said before any SASS legal rifle in .40 caliber and above is legal.

 

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Add an open category, so that shooters can drag out and use their old safe queens.  Make the cut off point 1918, that would satisfy the majority of people. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We just started shooting WB this season and I have to say we really enjoy it.

Renegade Roper is right about the NYS WB championship it is pretty challanging 

frustrating but FUN at the same time. The people that volunteer at that club do an amazing job.

We just don't have enough matches in our area,

Rhsty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me the thing that make me more interested would be for a 1911 carried cocked and locked and a full mag and not loading from slide lock. If not I'm not that interested. Sorry if this has been brought up before, but my reason for not playing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Griff said:

1st a couple of observations:  I can't stand an 1897 shotgun.  Hate 'em.  But, I love the 1911... so... I bought a 1897 TTN Trench gun, holds 6 rounds in the mag.  Now have 2 other 1897s, neither holds 6 rounds.  But... nothing in the rules precludes me from loading that last round from the belt.  (Anyone wanna trade 3 1897s (one broke) for one mdl 12 Riot gun?)   But, from the beginning, the 5 round pistol requirement has rankled.  Seriously, 5 rounds?  That's like putting training wheels on your ten speed road racing bike.  The condition 3 (loaded magazine, empty chamber) start doesn't bother me... as that's just like I was taught in the military... No, that ain't how I carry mine, but... all in all, I find that preferable to condition 1 without some sort of qualifier.  Now for the suggestions:

 

1.  Open up the Modern category to allow some of the more popular "stock" 1911s.  I've gotten 3 stock 1911s since I started WB... all qualify as Traditional guns, but... the mags that came with them aren't legal for use in any category.  I agree, keep the Traditional category for the purists, but why not allow bump pads on Modern category?  We ain't competing for the same Cadillac on the prize table, are we?  Magazines are a wear item... after some 30+ years of use I've had to toss some of mine...

 

2.  Allow a <.40 caliber if it meets the power factor.  158x950/1000=150.1.  Any cowboy shooter meeting that criteria WILL KNOW that he ain't at a cowboy match!

 

3.  Get rid of 5 round pistol limitation.  Expand your minds beyond "cowboy".  What?  The stages ain't LONG enough already?  Wait, maybe the ONLY thing you're good at is changing magazines? 

+1 all the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What would attract me to Wild Bunch?  Major, minor, WWII, small caliber rifles, semi-auto shotguns?  I agonized over this for several days and finally concluded this would attract me to Wild Bunch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

832422031_o.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have shot WB a couple of times, and would do it more but for lack of time. I would like 7 rounds mags allowed, but not 10. There has to be SOME sort of level playing field. I wouldn't be totally averse to allowing 9mm 1911's, but then we would probably have to have some sort of testable power minimum. As for allowing more guns like older revolvers, Lugers and such, I guess you all don't remember the "other" CAS organization that attempted just this very thing 10 years ago or so. I didn't see you all coming out in droves then, and I bet it wouldn't work now either. Either you like the category and are willing to put in the effort or you don't.  Wild Bunch shouldn't become the "catch-all" category for everyone who needs an excuse to shoot all their old guns that they can't use in SASS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Larson, I don't know whether you'd be hitting any targets but you'd surely be enjoying the scenery!  At which club can we join the posse with that shooter?  :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys!

 

Larsen likes the BANDOLIER! 

 

Shooting with a bandolier is extra super duper classy. And, most importantly, there were bandoliers in the movie The Wild Bunch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

Guys!

 

Larsen likes the BANDOLIER! 

 

Shooting with a bandolier is extra super duper classy. And, most importantly, there were bandoliers in the movie The Wild Bunch.

There was a bandolier in the photo?

Somehow I missed that:P

 

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I own an aluminum frame 1911, 1973 rifle in .357, and don't own a 97; so I would have to start from square one on getting irons, reloading equipment, and leather.  If I could use my 1911 and my lever gun, I might be willing to invest in a 97.  I would love to shoot WB, but it's just too much of an expense at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been following this thread and I see a lot of interesting and thought provoking posts. If you truly have an interest in the game of wild bunch but equipment is stopping you that is no issue. At your local club talk with your match director! All will be surprised at how they will accommodate new shooters to the WB game. If it's not offered in the area but a burning desire is had again step up and offer to help with a WB match. Plenty of info on how to setup a match found over at the WB wire. Also we are helpful over on the WB wire ,just like here. All one has to do is ask. At our home range we shoot 4-5 WB stages and then after lunch we BAMM usually 2 stages. We welcome and encourage new shooters and offer an open class for ANY 1911 in any caliber in any configuration,just have iron sights! Along with that ANY sass legal rifle and ANY pump shotgun. Use your cowboy holster,it works better than imagined. Place mags on the tables if you don't have pouches. Do not let equipment keep anyone from experiencing a great gun game. Say what you will about WB rules but more was gotten right than wrong. As far as 7-5 debate.......I really couldn't care any less. I support and shoot the matches either way. I also compete in different local combat matches that have completely different rules. I just shift gears and go compete. As far as not shooting because it's not condition 1 or slide down movement etc. well this is not training for self defense . Do not confuse! This is a game pure and simple its sole purpose is to entertain. Wild bunch does this for me. Odd pistols? Sounds like bamm! Last month one stage featured a Colt hammerless 380 auto. At the beep retrieve this pistol and place three shots on steel go to the end of the stage get the bolt action warhorse and Nevada sweep three targets then proceed to the other end and do the same. As far as revolvers go there's a lot of neat old guns and again talk to your local match director. If nothing else see if it can be shot at a monthly cowboy if a WB match isn't close. Shoot the old guns. It might scratch the itch or it might become a safe queen again!  Dusty Boddams 1907

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Run it as it's own match , don't take time away from Cowboy shooting events.... Then let it die a slow death it richly deserves .....................

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jabez, what a clever response!  But you missed the point we do run ours as a standalone match. Also I hate to disappoint but it's growing and getting more fun all the time!  Dusty Boddams

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just the other day I shot my one and only Wild Bunch match this year. I don't know when I will shoot it again.  It was fun but you can't become any good at a game if you only shoot it once a year.  I do think allowing any SASS rifle legal would make it a more popular game. Mostly I need more matches.  It usually takes me a stage just to knock the dust off my guns.  

 

I have to say I really like shooting my 1911.  It is a hoot.  So is the 97 fully stoked. 

 

I have a basic 1911 that allows me to shoot traditional (odd I shoot duelist with a 1911 but my Rugers 2 handed.) I like the target distances further than in SASS.  I would like to expand the number of rounds per magazine to 7, but that is just me.  Five is fine because it lets you practice more reloads. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not have a 45 I like.  My para weighs a ton, springfield a brick.  Suggestion for a long barrel .45 I can change springs on?

My go to shotgun does not feed from the tube so I have to remember to grab a red army one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Bart Solo said:

Just the other day I shot my one and only Wild Bunch match this year. I don't know when I will shoot it again.  It was fun but you can't become any good at a game if you only shoot it once a year.  I do think allowing any SASS rifle legal would make it a more popular game. Mostly I need more matches.  

 

I have to say I really like shooting my 1911.  It is a hoot.  So is the 97 fully stoked. 

 

I have a basic 1911 that allows me to shoot traditional (odd I shoot duelist with a 1911 but my Rugers 2 handed.) 

Maybe because you don't need the off-hand to cock the hammer for each shot??

;)

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

I have a basic 1911 that allows me to shoot traditional (odd I shoot duelist with a 1911 but my Rugers 2 handed.) 

Maybe because you don't need the off-hand to cock the hammer for each shot??

:lol:  That brings to mind that a fast cowboy who also shoots WBAS was a bit rusty on WB, and when he pulled his 1911 on the first stage of an infrequent WB match, he instinctively reached over with his support hand to cock the 1911.  It was only a flash of mental lapse and he pulled the slide back, charged the pistol, and continued on.  I'll mention no names!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Grouchy Spike said:

:lol:  That brings to mind that a fast cowboy who also shoots WBAS was a bit rusty on WB, and when he pulled his 1911 on the first stage of an infrequent WB match, he instinctively reached over with his support hand to cock the 1911.  It was only a flash of mental lapse and he pulled the slide back, charged the pistol, and continued on.  I'll mention no names!

 

Seen the same thing...as well as a proficient WB shooter try to "rack the slide" on a SAA (Open category "Turn of the Century" monthly match using a revolver in lieu of one of the 1911 mag changes).

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Bart Solo said:

Just the other day I shot my one and only Wild Bunch match this year. I don't know when I will shoot it again.  It was fun but you can't become any good at a game if you only shoot it once a year.  I do think allowing any SASS rifle legal would make it a more popular game. Mostly I need more matches.  It usually takes me a stage just to knock the dust off my guns.  

 

Bart, I've noticed that as I age, I'm finding more  dust.  Fortunately I am a member of a private gun range so I can practice, and much practice is required.  Do you have a range at which you can conveniently practice?  Does or would your club allow you to shoot the 1911 instead of sixguns during a CAS match.  While not WB that does provide an opportunity to run the 1911.  The coolest nearby opportunity is offered by the Willow Hole Cowboys in North Zulch, Texas where one can shoot full WB in a cowboy match - add 2 magazines and shoot at the rifle targets in addition to two mags at the pistol targets.  Stoked pump too.  I'm enjoying the visits to that club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Seen the same thing...as well as a proficient WB shooter try to "rack the slide" on a SAA (Open category "Turn of the Century" monthly match using a revolver in lieu of one of the 1911 mag changes).

 

I can't throw rocks as I've attempted to operate the slide on a SxS, darn near ripped off the forestock. And sometimes wondered why that Ruger NV wouldn't shoot on the 2nd pull of the trigger.  My muscle memory has Alzheimers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.