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Ruination of Gunfighter Category?


Jackalope

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6 minutes ago, Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 said:

That is a common misunderstanding of the Outlaw category.  I agree that it has become common practice. Apparently somewhere along the way some perceived the use of the word outlaw to imply that they don't follow rules. . .period. That is not the case as all SASS rules are to apply.  The only difference is they are to shoot one handed, either gunfighter, duelist or double duelist style from the hip as well doing the same with their shotgun. I invite anyone who believes this to be incorrect to talk to the granddaddy of Outlaw style shooting, the man who started it all, Tennessee Tombstone. While I'm sure TT would be happy to hear from anyone and everyone, I'll make it easy on him and post a link to the The Outlaw Rules.

Exactly! I shoot Outlaw but follow GF rules. At the GA state I shot the speed pistol 3.5ish, 2 separate Nevada sweeps, Double cocking. I was beaten over all by a traditional shooter that did it in 2.8 Missouri Lefty. I think he was harder to spot!

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19 minutes ago, Bo Dacious said:

Exactly! I shoot Outlaw but follow GF rules. At the GA state I shot the speed pistol 3.5ish, 2 separate Nevada sweeps, Double cocking. I was beaten over all by a traditional shooter that did it in 2.8 Missouri Lefty. I think he was harder to spot!

I wasn't going to shoot 49er until that kid started shooting Cowboy. 

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Wait! What?  I can't double discharge???  Then I'll just stick with Duelist...it's the coolest anyway!

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I shot GF while I had trouble with my eyes for a bit and did quite well with it.  I am a double cocker because it is comfortable for me and it eliminates the need to cross pistols during a sequence.  I also make sure I don't pull both triggers at the same time.  It's hard on the spotters and, hard on me.

 

My eyes got better and my left arm went bad, so I went back to shooting two handed, which I also shoot quite well.  No matter what you're shooting, if you are a fast shooter, spotters can miss it one way or another.  I find it helps if you let the TO and the spotter know what you are doing if there are a lot of options.  That way, they know where to look during a sequence.

 

One of the best things about having have shot GF is that when I write stages, I consider making stages that are easier for spotters to spot and that are not unfair to GF.  My definition of unfair is making a GF shoot double duelist and I don't write stages that way.   If I can, I'll write it so GFs don't have to cross their pistols.  If you write a stage that is a round count stage and has GF options on it, I found it's good during the stage instructions to let everyone know that the GFs can shoot it in what look different from two handed shooters but is OK by the rules.

 

NNV

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My opinion is the practice of double discharging has become common because people are seeing it done without penalty. Those who are “having fun” are not getting it called because everyone says “they’re just having fun!” This opens the door for others who are desperate to win. Personally I play this game for fun. . .but I play by the rules and think it’s reasonable to have those around me do the same. I am of the opinion that the problem of double discharging would go away if range officials, spotters and TOs would think about the fact that allowing rules to be broken without penalty effectively penalizes everyone else. . .and make the call.

 

As far as those who are doing it “just for fun,” they can prove it by telling the TOs and spotters what they’re going to do and tell them that they EXPECT to receive the progressive penalty. If they don’t mind being put out of the scoring, they can do it on the last three stages of the match for a MDQ. If they’d like to be included in the scoring but are willing to suffer twenty seconds added to their score, they can do it on the last two stages of a match.

 

A few months ago I had a gunfighter approach me regarding the whole double cocking thing and I encouraged him to learn to do what I call “The Gallop.” I call it that because it’s the gate of a galloping horse.  Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! The shooter is originally an alternating cocker, but now can shoot both styles depending on which fits the stage best. Recently he finished 16th overall (first in gunfighter) out of 301 shooters at Landrun and in the top ten on seven of twelve stages. Using him as an example I think I can make a pretty good case that it’s possible to play by the rules. . .and be fast. Beyond that it takes skill, more than it takes to double discharge, to do it well.

 

The Gallop. It’s fast. It’s fun. And it’s by the rules.

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Ace of Hearts, I'm not sure I understand your statement of I'm incorrect in how I count misses but to me if you're only looking for misses then the shooter that edges a target will incur a miss because the spotter did not see the bullet strike the edge of the target, they will only see the fragment that carried on and struck the rear berm. IMHO by watching for the hits and listening for the bang and clang I'm trying to do the best job I can for the shooter. If this is wrong then so be it but I still won't spot for a double cocker.  If I don't think I can get it right then I would rather not do it.

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Lefty is from another planet

1 hour ago, Michigan Slim said:

I wasn't going to shoot 49er until that kid started shooting Cowboy. 

 

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2 hours ago, Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 said:

My opinion is the practice of double discharging has become common because people are seeing it done without penalty. Those who are “having fun” are not getting it called because everyone says “they’re just having fun!” This opens the door for others who are desperate to win. Personally I play this game for fun. . .but I play by the rules and think it’s reasonable to have those around me do the same. I am of the opinion that the problem of double discharging would go away if range officials, spotters and TOs would think about the fact that allowing rules to be broken without penalty effectively penalizes everyone else. . .and make the call.

 

As far as those who are doing it “just for fun,” they can prove it by telling the TOs and spotters what they’re going to do and tell them that they EXPECT to receive the progressive penalty. If they don’t mind being put out of the scoring, they can do it on the last three stages of the match for a MDQ. If they’d like to be included in the scoring but are willing to suffer twenty seconds added to their score, they can do it on the last two stages of a match.

 

A few months ago I had a gunfighter approach me regarding the whole double cocking thing and I encouraged him to learn to do what I call “The Gallop.” I call it that because it’s the gate of a galloping horse.  Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! The shooter is originally an alternating cocker, but now can shoot both styles depending on which fits the stage best. Recently he finished 16th overall (first in gunfighter) out of 301 shooters at Landrun and in the top ten on seven of twelve stages. Using him as an example I think I can make a pretty good case that it’s possible to play by the rules. . .and be fast. Beyond that it takes skill, more than it takes to double discharge, to do it well.

 

The Gallop. It’s fast. It’s fun. And it’s by the rules.

That's a great way of describing  the rhythm, Ill use that in the future.  Thanks Buck 

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Howdy, Doc!  Yes, it has been a while.  I haven't seen Allie Mo or Buck D. Law for a while, either.  We're doing great and I hope life is treating you all well, too!

 

As Doc Shapiro suggests, the practical solution is to do the best you can for each situation and make the call that seems right.  I'm pretty sure that folks try to do their best, but often shy away from that "making the call" part.  

 

I reckon that if you are willing to follow this advice, there is no longer any reason to avoid spotting chores, no matter who is doing the shooting.

 

On 6/14/2017 at 6:31 PM, Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 said:

...Personally I play this game for fun. . .but I play by the rules and think it’s reasonable to have those around me do the same. I am of the opinion that the problem of double discharging would go away if range officials, spotters and TOs would think about the fact that allowing rules to be broken without penalty effectively penalizes everyone else. . .and make the call...

 

This pretty well sums up my opinion, too.  It would be great if all TOs, ROs, and spotters held this belief.

 

Regards,

 

Jackalope

Jedi Gunfighter Lucky #7

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I played in GF for the last two years.  I am average, at best.  

I did find that many spotters watch the shooter and not the target and many spotters watching the shooter get very confused as I changed leads.  I was awarded Ps that I did not earn and did not enjoy the talks after shooting a stage.

I will shoot 49er for now and not be challenged by some who should not spot.

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On 6/14/2017 at 6:31 PM, Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 said:

My opinion is the practice of double discharging has become common because people are seeing it done without penalty. Those who are “having fun” are not getting it called because everyone says “they’re just having fun!” This opens the door for others who are desperate to win. Personally I play this game for fun. . .but I play by the rules and think it’s reasonable to have those around me do the same. I am of the opinion that the problem of double discharging would go away if range officials, spotters and TOs would think about the fact that allowing rules to be broken without penalty effectively penalizes everyone else. . .and make the call.

 

As far as those who are doing it “just for fun,” they can prove it by telling the TOs and spotters what they’re going to do and tell them that they EXPECT to receive the progressive penalty. If they don’t mind being put out of the scoring, they can do it on the last three stages of the match for a MDQ. If they’d like to be included in the scoring but are willing to suffer twenty seconds added to their score, they can do it on the last two stages of a match.

 

A few months ago I had a gunfighter approach me regarding the whole double cocking thing and I encouraged him to learn to do what I call “The Gallop.” I call it that because it’s the gate of a galloping horse.  Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! Pa-pow! The shooter is originally an alternating cocker, but now can shoot both styles depending on which fits the stage best. Recently he finished 16th overall (first in gunfighter) out of 301 shooters at Landrun and in the top ten on seven of twelve stages. Using him as an example I think I can make a pretty good case that it’s possible to play by the rules. . .and be fast. Beyond that it takes skill, more than it takes to double discharge, to do it well.

 

The Gallop. It’s fast. It’s fun. And it’s by the rules.

Well said!

 

We've got the rules, they make sense.  Just do the best you can and make the call.  And don't accept red herrings.

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I'm not a gunfighter, so correct me please... There is a rule that says there must be enough be enough shot separation for spotters to be able to count and judge shot sequence.  How does that deal with the varying ability of spotters?  What about when a gunfighter who alternate cocks shoots so fast that shot separation is extremely difficult to hear/see?  We recently had a fcg'r shoot so fluidly that the spotters said he double tapped every target, which in this stage, would have required 14 rounds! (He doesn't double cock.)

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22 hours ago, McCandless said:

I'm not a gunfighter, so correct me please... There is a rule that says there must be enough be enough shot separation for spotters to be able to count and judge shot sequence.  How does that deal with the varying ability of spotters?  What about when a gunfighter who alternate cocks shoots so fast that shot separation is extremely difficult to hear/see?  We recently had a fcg'r shoot so fluidly that the spotters said he double tapped every target, which in this stage, would have required 14 rounds! (He doesn't double cock.)

 

The rules state, 

Both revolvers may be cocked at the same time, but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring."

 

And I cock both pistols at the same time, as allowed by the rules, but fire them one at a time as Buck D. Law states in his gallop sequence, boom-boom, boom-boom, boom-boom, boom-boom, boom-boom.  

 

 And as Bo Dacious so rightly said at the Ga state match, I have the perfect storm, double cocking, again allowed by rules, and shoot FCG.   I did get a few Ps at that match where my misses caused the P, but life goes on.

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It is always painful when people make up rules -- more painful when they make up penalties for made-up rules.

 

My thoughts and procedure when spotting and timing is to dial back on "benefit of the doubt" when a double cocker makes it impossible for others to follow the action.  Gunfighters that alternate (as opposed to double cocking) make it easy for spotters and ROs to keep up with the course of fire, so they get the same "benefit of the doubt" that all other shooters get.  However, any calls on a gunfighter who double cocks (and discharges both pistols simultaneously) are made without mercy.  

 

You can't expect others to accord you the benefit of any doubt if you didn't give them the opportunity to understand, and observe what you were doing.

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We have a rule about this and we are supposed to enforce. In the Spirit of The Game, GF's are not supposed to fire both guns at the same time but it really means if the two shots are so close together that a spotter of average capabilities cannot distinguish which targets were hit and in the proper order, then it is a penalty, period.  If you are uncomfortable in assessing a penalty in this situation, then hand the spotter stick off to someone that understands the rules and is not afraid to enforce them. And it does not matter if the shooter is doing it for fun or not. We seem to waist a lot of time discussing something in order to allow someone to violate the rules because it is a judgement call. Well, in the spotters eyes that cannot tell which target was hit and in what order, is not a judgement, it is a fact.

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Chuckaroo,

You and a few others have stated it well.   All this 'Benefit of the Doubt' doesn't work when there is NO DOUBT.     When the spotter(s) can't discern separate shots and "cannot tell which target was hit and in what order,"   then where is the doubt?

 

Thanks Jackalope for this Thread.

 

All this isn't meant to demean or dimenish those great skills and gifts of those shooters who can hit different targets at the same time with two separate pistols, and do it with proficiency.    But those who double DISCHARGE their pistols need to realize that the spotters are trying to assess fair and equal calls for everyone and the double discharge does add a degree of difficulty to their task.

 

As a GF, I like spotting for other GFer's, even those who are very quick with their split shots.   I watch them close and give them my full attention.   But I have witnessed those simultaneous double shots and they can create 'guess work', even for some good, experienced spotters.

 

I like the post and information that Buck D. Law posted.   Good info Buck

 

..........Widder (who alternates)

 

 

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The decision should never have to be made by the spotters!  A good TO will have already assessed the penalty before polling the spotters for misses.  I tell the shooter, "that was pretty nice double discharging, but it cost you a P; next time it is a SDQ; third time you are done for the day"!  Never had to give more than a P.

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To the defense of double-cocking gunfighters:

As a double-cocking gunfighter who started practicing and shooting just after EOT last year, it took some time to control the double-discharge as I was learning. As GFs learn this cocking style, it's just going to happen initially. Call it on them, but also remember that it's not something they purposely do (for the most part) and it will eventually settle down. Dbl-discharging is a Procedural, not a SOG.

 

Shooters cannot control what TOs and spotters call or don't call on them based on buckles or other reasons, so don't shoot the shooter. It's the TO and the spotter's that need to be accountable for not making the correct calls. When I 1st started dbl-cocking, I told spotters to call a P on me if I dbl-discharged, because being penalized would help me focus on separating the shots; I had a lot to learn. If spotters decided to not call a P on me because of buckles or other reasons, then bad on them. I have seen folks not call a dbl-discharge on other dbl-cocking gunfighters just because they didn't know the rule. I had Ps called on me early on, which I highly encouraged. But since I am past that initial learning period, I have not dbl-discharged in quite some time. They are close, but not simultaneous. If you can hear 2 shots, then is isn't a simultaneous discharge. When a spotter or others tell me it was close, that means there were 2 distinguishable separate shots; so no call. I appreciate them letting me know and I slow down a bit and don't take advantage of the dbl-discharge situation. Most dbl-cockers I know don't take advantage of it. Shooting 2 quick shots is allowed; spiking the target by slip hammering is allowed.

 

I have noticed that some spotters can't distinguish between 2 shots where others can and microphones on phones and video cameras at times cannot pick up on the distinguishable shots, but the ears (most of them) can.

 

The "to facilitate scoring" is for when you cannot hear 10 pistol shots. If you count 9 and there isn't a live round in the pistol at the loading table, then a P should be called. This verbiage isn't for not being able to keep up with where the shooter is shooting. If that were the case, then folks who are traditional shooters that slip hammer (or shoot super fast) should have the same penalty because of folks not being able to keep up with them. But that should not happen because the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter. There are plenty of traditional shooters that slip hammer and the timer does not pick up that 2nd shot. They even shoot on different targets and spotters cannot keep up. So a no call is made; benefit goes to the shooter. If this "to facilitate scoring" is supposed to be for when shooters can't keep up with "where" the 2 shots are, then it needs to be clarified by the ROC. As I was learning the gunfighter rules, I asked quite a few top gunfighters and RO instructors for clarification on this rule; it's about simultaneous shots, not about spotters not being able to keep up. Again...then traditional shooters should get penalized for shooting too fast as well. ; )

 

To wrap this up, when I know I'm going to shoot a confusing order, I tell the spotters what I'm going to do. I highly encourage dbl-cockers to do that to avoid that "I'm not sure" P penalty that tends to be called. Not sure...then a no call. But giving them a heads up minimizes indecision. ; )

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8 minutes ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

Call it on them, but also remember that it's not something they purposely do (for the most part) and it will eventually settle down. Dbl-discharging is a Procedural, not a SOG.

 

Actually Sadie, that's exactly what this thread was about.  Also, I see that you're an RO Instructor, so if intentional violation of the rules to gain a competitive advantage isn't a SOG, then what is?  I've earned the P myself because I let my fingers get ahead of my brain, but when the T.O. is certain in his or her heart that it's intentional, is it fair to the shooters that do abide by the rules to let it slide with just a P?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, JohnHenryQuick said:

 

Actually Sadie, that's exactly what this thread was about.  Also, I see that you're an RO Instructor, so if intentional violation of the rules to gain a competitive advantage isn't a SOG, then what is?  I've earned the P myself because I let my fingers get ahead of my brain, but when the T.O. is certain in his or her heart that it's intentional, is it fair to the shooters that do abide by the rules to let it slide with just a P?

 

 

 

I have seen 2 dbl-cocking GFs continuously double discharge and they tell folks they are going to do it and it's just what they do, knowing that a P is going to be called. Though rare, shooters in other categories will also shoot the stages incorrectly, because they just simply want to shoot it differently. They get penalized with a P.

 

I have also seen speed events won by someone dbl-discharging and I don't think that is the cowboy way, but it happens and they are clearly taking advantage of the TO not wanting to or not knowing to make the call. If I do that on a speed event, I tell the TO not to record the time and I reshoot it.

 

How often have you seen a SOG called on anyone? Granted, I have wanted to and think repetitive actions formulating an advantage on stages might be a case for a SOG, but have never seen a real justification for it. I don't believe that giving a P for each stage a dbl-discharge occurs gives the shooter an advantage; they earn 10 seconds. But a SOG call really has to be justified and be ready to lose a shooter at that point:

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39 minutes ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

 

I have seen 2 dbl-cocking GFs continuously double discharge and they tell folks they are going to do it and it's just what they do, knowing that a P is going to be called. Though rare, shooters in other categories will also shoot the stages incorrectly, because they just simply want to shoot it differently. They get penalized with a P.

 

I have also seen speed events won by someone dbl-discharging and I don't think that is the cowboy way, but it happens and they are clearly taking advantage of the TO not wanting to or not knowing to make the call. If I do that on a speed event, I tell the TO not to record the time and I reshoot it.

 

How often have you seen a SOG called on anyone? Granted, I have wanted to and think repetitive actions formulating an advantage on stages might be a case for a SOG, but have never seen a real justification for it. I don't believe that giving a P for each stage a dbl-discharge occurs gives the shooter an advantage; they earn 10 seconds. But a SOG call really has to be justified and be ready to lose a shooter at that point:

I could be wrong, it does happen, rarely but I believe this is a progressive (my term) penalty. First offense - P, second offense - SDQ, third offense - MDQ.

 

Waimea

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You are correct Waimea, it is a progressive penalty for failure to conform to the category guidelines.  That is why, imho, there is no need for a SOG.  Let them continue and keep assessing the penalty; P, SDQ, MDQ.  I have never had to give more than a P to anyone, they all have gotten real careful after the P, because they know what will happen next.  There is no need to be a hard #$s and give a SOG, just follow the outlined procedure.

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27 minutes ago, Waimea said:

I could be wrong, it does happen, rarely but I believe this is a progressive (my term) penalty. First offense - P, second offense - SDQ, third offense - MDQ.

 

Waimea

Correct...for shooting out of category, progressive penalties will apply.

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1 hour ago, JohnHenryQuick said:

 

Actually Sadie, that's exactly what this thread was about.  Also, I see that you're an RO Instructor, so if intentional violation of the rules to gain a competitive advantage isn't a SOG, then what is?  I've earned the P myself because I let my fingers get ahead of my brain, but when the T.O. is certain in his or her heart that it's intentional, is it fair to the shooters that do abide by the rules to let it slide with just a P?

 

 

how in the world can it be a competitive advantage to know you're going to get a P for doing it?!!!!  tell me ONE shooter who can overcome a ten second penalty shooting the pistols that way!!  just one!!!

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19 minutes ago, Tracker Jack Daniels, 58780 said:

You are correct Waimea, it is a progressive penalty for failure to conform to the category guidelines.  That is why, imho, there is no need for a SOG.  Let them continue and keep assessing the penalty; P, SDQ, MDQ.  I have never had to give more than a P to anyone, they all have gotten real careful after the P, because they know what will happen next.  There is no need to be a hard #$s and give a SOG, just follow the outlined procedure.

Agreed...the progressive penalty will take care of the situation; no need for a SOG.

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8 hours ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

how in the world can it be a competitive advantage to know you're going to get a P for doing it?!!!!  tell me ONE shooter who can overcome a ten second penalty shooting the pistols that way!!  just one!!!

 

Who ever said that?  If you've bothered to read this entire thread, then it should be plain to you that we've been talking about people like the one in Allie's real-world scenario where the guy had a reputation for double-discharging and he keeps doing it because the T.O.'s at that club let him get away with it.   Maybe a progressive set of P's would deter him and maybe not, but people like him do it because their experience tells them that they will get away scot-free.

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1 hour ago, JohnHenryQuick said:

 

Who ever said that?  If you've bothered to read this entire thread, then it should be plain to you that we've been talking about people like the one in Allie's real-world scenario where the guy had a reputation for double-discharging and he keeps doing it because the T.O.'s at that club let him get away with it.   Maybe a progressive set of P's would deter him and maybe not, but people like him do it because their experience tells them that they will get away scot-free.

if the TOs there won't call a P do you think they will call a SOG? 

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6 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

if the TOs there won't call a P do you think they will call a SOG? 

 

ShyAnnie,

I owe you a cold Pepsi for that one.

 

;)

 

..........Widder

 

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I got into SASS for the fun.  Last time I checked, they ain't giv'en away cadillacs for prizes.  

 

I don't shoot gunfighter.  I tried it once and it was fun, but I dont have the mental capacity or energy to do it regularly.  

 

To me, there's nothing more fun or impressive in SASS than a good gunfighter.  

 

It can can be a pain spotting for them but I'd rather spot for them than a really fast traditional shooter or someone using smoke, especially on a round count stage.  

 

It's really simple, if you don't want to count for them, hand off the stick.  

 

As for the simultaneous firing, we can argue that all day but it flies in the face of physics.  One person can't fire two guns at the same time.  It's impossible.  

 

If you know it's a hit, it's a hit, if you think...if you KNOW it's a miss, that's the only time it's a miss.  

 

Do gunfighters regularly win EOT or WR?

 

 

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Double discharges are possible.  Been TO several times when it happened.  A good TO is willing to apply all rules to all shooters equally, if they are unwilling or unable to enforce the rules they should hand the timer off.  If you observe a TO who fails to enforce the rules, go to the MD and report that fact.

 

The thing I have found that a lot of TO's fail to understand is that a shooter earns a penalty, the TO does not give them a penalty.  The TO is just enforcing the rules, and reporting any penalties earned.

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13 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

To the defense of double-cocking gunfighters:

 

This is not an attack on double-cocking gunfighters.  We have many around here who use that technique successfully, within the rules.

 

The "to facilitate scoring" is for when you cannot hear 10 pistol shots. If you count 9 and there isn't a live round in the pistol at the loading table, then a P should be called. This verbiage isn't for not being able to keep up with where the shooter is shooting. If that were the case, then folks who are traditional shooters that slip hammer (or shoot super fast) should have the same penalty because of folks not being able to keep up with them. But that should not happen because the benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter. There are plenty of traditional shooters that slip hammer and the timer does not pick up that 2nd shot. They even shoot on different targets and spotters cannot keep up. So a no call is made; benefit goes to the shooter. If this "to facilitate scoring" is supposed to be for when shooters can't keep up with "where" the 2 shots are, then it needs to be clarified by the ROC. As I was learning the gunfighter rules, I asked quite a few top gunfighters and RO instructors for clarification on this rule; it's about simultaneous shots, not about spotters not being able to keep up. Again...then traditional shooters should get penalized for shooting too fast as well. ; )

 

A- It does not matter how fast traditional shooters are able to shoot, this is a rule of the Gunfighter category and only applies to those shooting gunfighter style.

 

B- The reason this rule is necessary is because in any other category, some action has to take place between shots:  cocking the hammer (…and perhaps moving the gun to another target).  Granted, this can be done very quickly, but not so quickly that a *quality* spotter cannot see separate shots/hits. 

 

C- The rule does not say that as long as the shots are in any way distinguishable from a single shot, that the criteria has been met.  It does say that the goal is to “facilitate scoring.”    A millisecond or whatever time it takes for a human brain to distinguish one bang from something more than one bang is not necessarily enough to facilitate scoring.  To “facilitate scoring”, the spotters don't just need to hear ten shots, they must be able to observe ten shots. The spotters have to be able to discern not only hits and misses, but also whether two shots hit their respective targets in the right order.  They are spotters, not "hearers,"  and that is why they are supposed to be positioned to *see* all the targets.

 

When a spotter or others tell me it was close, that means there were 2 distinguishable separate shots; so no call.

If spotters decided to not call a P on me because of buckles or other reasons, then bad on them. 

 

I am reading between the lines here, but perhaps these spotters are trying to tell you something in a nice way, but don’t have the fortitude to make the call.

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1 hour ago, Huckleberry Pace said:

I got into SASS for the fun.  Last time I checked, they ain't giv'en away cadillacs for prizes.  

 

I don't shoot gunfighter.  I tried it once and it was fun, but I dont have the mental capacity or energy to do it regularly.  

 

To me, there's nothing more fun or impressive in SASS than a good gunfighter.  

 

It can can be a pain spotting for them but I'd rather spot for them than a really fast traditional shooter or someone using smoke, especially on a round count stage.  

 

It's really simple, if you don't want to count for them, hand off the stick.  

 

As for the simultaneous firing, we can argue that all day but it flies in the face of physics.  One person can't fire two guns at the same time.  It's impossible.  

 

If you know it's a hit, it's a hit, if you think...if you KNOW it's a miss, that's the only time it's a miss.  

 

Do gunfighters regularly win EOT or WR?

 

 

 

If you maintain your focus on the targets, how does it matter what style the shooter is using?

 

Where is it that folks are getting the idea that it is impossible for someone to fire two guns at the same time?  Now if you would qualify your statement by saying the two rounds have to go off at "exactly" the same moment and that a person can't make it happen every single time then I might go along with you.  btw; exactly what property of physics would preclude it?

 

As far as the "Spotter's Creed", well I don't think anyone would disagree with it as the proper criteria to determine a miss.  But...  It is both possible and quite common for people to be absolutely certain about something and still be wrong.

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