Beginner's existing equipment

[Silver Sam, SASS #34718L]

Roscoe,

Maybe you need a little primer on the history of CAS and SASS to help you understand

the total mess that is the current Category system we are stuck with.

 

When I started in CAS everyone was expected to wear proper attire

and the eight or so categories we had were pretty much based only on.....

1. the type of equipment you were shooting, mainly fixed or adjustable sights on your pistols

2. your shooting style, pistol in 1 or 2 hands 

3. type of propellant you used, BP or smokeless

The world was a Happy Place.........

 

Then SASS decided it would be a good idea add a few new categories to help attract more shooters,

some age based some costume based....

and unfortunately it kept growing and growing until it got to the confusing mess that it currently is.

Some people Love the mess some Hate it and most just Shoot and Have Fun.

 

I'm in the Shoot & Have Fun Camp.

[Blackey Cole]

I have always thought besides the three special categories (frontiersman, and the two dressup cats bw and cc) I figure it would have been easier to have a matrix of style, powder, plus the age cats of those and wheaten it's a open or female gender cat but I felt two other things also if your age puts you in a age cat like senior you can no longer shoot 49er as and example same with gender instead of open and lady it should me male and female and female had to shoot in the lady cats n. But that's just my opinion.

[Roscoe Regulator]

Concerned about keeping my 6 1/2" cross draw within my 170 degree sweep and hoping I am allowed to control the holster with my left while drawing with the right. I will get that resolved at the match. Have no plan to buy a left-handed holster.

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

Roscoe

Using a cross draw holster involves twisting the body to keep the muzzle pointed safely downrange, ie "not breaking the 170degree safety plane". Using both hands wont keep you from breaking the 170. It is known as "the dance".  You may find that using pistols of one caliber and a rifle of another caliber is not tooo much of an inconvenience, or not. The most important thing is go to a match.

Imis and my$.02

and get yourself a good hat lol

[Roscoe Regulator]

1 hour ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Roscoe

Using a cross draw holster involves twisting the body to keep the muzzle pointed safely downrange, ie "not breaking the 170degree safety plane". Using both hands wont keep you from breaking the 170. It is known as "the dance".  You may find that using pistols of one caliber and a rifle of another caliber is not tooo much of an inconvenience, or not. The most important thing is go to a match.

Imis and my$.02

and get yourself a good hat lol

I'll see if I can find a video of this in action.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Howdy and Welcome Roscoe!

I didn't notice if anyone answered your question about Cowboy. It is not the same as Classic Cowboy. You can find it in the section with age-based categories.  It is open to all ages. All of the others in that section require that you must be at least a set age.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

13 hours ago, Blackey Cole said:

I have always thought besides the three special categories (frontiersman, and the two dressup cats bw and cc) I figure it would have been easier to have a matrix of style, powder, plus the age cats of those and wheaten it's a open or female gender cat but I felt two other things also if your age puts you in a age cat like senior you can no longer shoot 49er as and example same with gender instead of open and lady it should me male and female and female had to shoot in the lady cats n. But that's just my opinion.

This is not correct. You can drop down and shoot the younger categories as they do not have an upper limit only a lower limit. The only protected (from dropping down) age-based categories are the Junior categories (Buckaroo and Young Guns). In other words, you may not drop down below Cowboy.

[Duncan Disorderly]

ON classes...RELAX!
I too found it to be one of the most confusing aspects..then you go to a shoot and find out you're the only cowboy..or only classic cowboy or only BP shooter.

It's easy to 'win' a class and you can shoot in many different classes with the same equipment. You may change classes match to match or find which class(es) locally have the top shots and try to avoid those classes.

Only B-Western has specific costume requirements. And some gun limits.
Classic Cowboy has gun 'needs' as well.
If you shoot the holy black you won't find a ton of competition regardless of class.

At non-home-club matches I usually shoot B-Western At home I run the matches and need to setup and tear down so prefer to not wear my best duds, so I copied a top shot - work boots, jeans, henley from walmart. Done. No hat needed..but IMO we should all wear hats. I'm too hot in a vest, but love the look. You can get a henley in high tech fabrics and be comfortable on hot humid days - so you might change classes based on the weather!

You're only shooting a pistol 5-8 yards and fast - so sights are not a significant concern.
Many shoot 38 as it's lighter recoiling so you can shoot faster. A top shot here however shoots loads nearer the max as he wants to be sure the shotgun targets go down even if ti's not a direct hit and that the others ring well so no misses called by accident. So there is no one way to do it.

You can shoot non-matching guns - I started out with a bisley in 38 and a std vaquero in 45. Light loads in 38 and factory lead loads in 45. Never had an issue evcen with different grips, recoil, ammo.

 

 

 

On 5/24/2017 at 5:47 PM, Roscoe Regulator said:

Have been studying rules, considering guns and costumes, and have not spent any money yet, anticipating observing my first match this Sunday while under a veteran's wing.

 

I have been trying to avoid buying guns since I have so many, but I know I will need my own shotgun eventually. I am trying to work with the holsters and belts that I have. It seems I have a choice in direction, discovered or realized this afternoon. I can go the adjustable sight route or the 45 Colt fixed sight route, intending to be in Distinguished Veteran and shooting Duelist. Correct me if I got the wrong impression here as I go along.

 

I have a New Vaquero and an El Patron Belleza in 45 Colt, both 5.5". I have the right style holsters for strong side and cross draw. I have a Henry Big boy in 45 Colt. I have the suitable cartridge belt.

 

In adjustable sights, I have two Ruger Flat Tops (NMBH), one 6 1/2" 44 Magnum cross draw and one 4 5/8" 44 Special strong side, carried on a 44/45 cal Texas belt by El Paso Saddlery. The rifle is a Marlin 44 Mag. I have a bandoleer for it. The question becomes both holsters having retention straps with snaps. The cross draw holster is a Threepersons style; looks real cowboy to me; and the strong side is more of a hard hunter/ranger style but fits the 2 1/4" Texas cartridge belt.

 

I reload for all these, and my ammo supply of 44 Special is book rated at under the 1000 fps limit. I would think the rifle velocity would be proportionally legal. I checked whether the rifle would cycle 44 Special okay, and it did very smoothly.

 

My greatest interest was thwarted when I found that my Cimarron Lightning 357 pump rifle would not cycle 38 special except one round at a time. There is an open question whether the tube spring is too strong and should be shorter. When it brings up a round, it spits another one out with it, and we're all jammed up. I am aware of the gun's reputation in fast-cycling competition, but it seems to work well with 357 Mag length cartridges. Trouble is my 2 braces of 38 caliber, old style guns are 38 Special Uberti/Cimarron/Taylor’s Stallions and Lightnings. I guess I could use 357 in the rifle and 38 Special in the revolvers, barring any need to reload in a stage. I suppose one side of the cartridge belt could be 357 for the rifle.

 

At nearly 73, I am in pretty good shape but not up for much in the way of athletics or serious competition. I am more interested in improving my own times and skill level and just having a good time with the guns, dressing up and socializing, and just generally doing more with guns than fondling them, practicing, cleaning, and writing about them on gun forums. Tried IDPA 7 years ago and didn't do very well or feel like I belonged there, no fault of anyone else's. All of these competitions, certainly CAS according to YouTube, have shooters with such high skill levels that it can be pretty intimidating to think about jumping in and embarrassing myself. But it's all good, and I will follow advice and not overthink it until attending a match. If you want to nudge me in a direction with my equipment, feel free.

 

On the costuming side, I shopped without buying anything yet but have identified shirt, vest, tie, and sleeve garters. I also found a hat that seems more authentic to me than many of the rodeo hats I see on pictures of others. The real deal, fur felt is $500, so there had to be a better idea there. I recall the source for the gear was Sully or Scully, surely familiar to those already into the sport. I have Ariat Roper boots in three styles, and hope those will do. There is a pattern on the soles but not what I would call "lugs", mentioned in the rules.

 

Gonna have to go with belted trousers for now, suspenders to follow. I figure rather than use blue jeans I would get the black, tan, or brown ones and go the route of cutting off belt loops.

 

Been through the rules a number of times and am still not clear on age-based categories and shooting styles, whether two-handed, one gun or two gun, unsupported. Just not sure I understand where I would fit in according to the rules.

 

That's where I'm at for now. Looking forward to Sunday's match.

 

[Blackey Cole]

6 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

This is not correct. You can drop down and shoot the younger categories as they do not have an upper limit only a lower limit. The only protected (from dropping down) age-based categories are the Junior categories (Buckaroo and Young Guns). In other words, you may not drop down below Cowboy.

Allie I know that but Imo I wish it was the other way around.  Basically you shoot based on your age, style and powder and gender that's your category unless you shoot frontiersman, classic cowboy or bwestern then you need to meet the special requirements.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

And you can shoot Mix an Match,,,, .38 spl. in one revolver, .44 spl. in the other and .45 Colt in the Rifle.....  Or .44 mag. in the rifle , .38 spl. in one revolver and .45 Colt in the other ...... Or you could Shoot .38-40 in the Rifle and .44 spl. in both revolvers ,,,, or .45 colt in one revolver .44 spl. in the other and .38-40 in the rifle .... I have shot all these combos and others loaded with Holy Black ...

 

Play the game with what YOU want Or Have and enjoy the game ... I once shoot a warm-up match (5 stages ) using 5 different rifles ,3 different shotguns and 6 different revolvers ,,,, and had barrels of Fun !!!

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Roscoe Regulator]

Back from the match...had a good time, learned a lot, met nice people with awesome gear, got to shoot, woohoo!

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

I will do a happy dance for you! Good news and happy posts warm my little Moderator heart.

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

I had the distinct privilege of hosting Roscoe at my home club's match today.  Let me say first that anyone who can appreciate the benefit of a Flattop Blackhawk in .44 Special is (in my eyes) a person or discerning tastes to begin with.

 

(Roscoe, avert your eyes).  I probably had more fun than he did today.

 

Thanks for all who commented on this thread to answer a prospective new shooter's questions.

 

Every time I have the opportunity to see the sport through the eyes of a new shooter I learn something.  

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

Greetings Roscoe and welcome to the fun.

I see we are of similar age, so I'll pass on what happened to me, using a cross-draw rig.

I really liked using the cross-draw; still do. I used it for 14 years, but arthritis has hit my knees and last year, at a match, my right knee went out on me when I started my dance at the line.

TO and a spotter helped grab me and I maintained control of my gun, but it was a wake up. I now use a strong left side holster for my second pistol.

Again, welcome to the fun.

 

[Roscoe Regulator]

9 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Greetings Roscoe and welcome to the fun.

I see we are of similar age, so I'll pass on what happened to me, using a cross-draw rig.

I really liked using the cross-draw; still do. I used it for 14 years, but arthritis has hit my knees and last year, at a match, my right knee went out on me when I started my dance at the line.

TO and a spotter helped grab me and I maintained control of my gun, but it was a wake up. I now use a strong left side holster for my second pistol.

Again, welcome to the fun.

 

So far, I am using the left leg forward stance that requires less of a turn. As a left-eye-dominant right hander I normally shoot that way. I shoot a rifle and shotgun sighting with my right eye. All seems automatic. Thanks for the tip, and sorry you had to make an adjustment.

[Roscoe Regulator]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 4:30 PM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

In that case it is not a Cimarron.  Theirs were made by Pedersoli.  

I would like to be clear on the implication here. Is the Uberti somehow not as modifiable as the Pedersoli. How are the two versions technically different?

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

On 5/27/2017 at 8:45 AM, Roscoe Regulator said:

Concerned about keeping my 6 1/2" cross draw within my 170 degree sweep and hoping I am allowed to control the holster with my left while drawing with the right. I will get that resolved at the match. Have no plan to buy a left-handed holster.

Doing that, you will first sweep your hand with a loaded firearm on your draw. Our posses frown on that and will pass out DQs for it. I had to learn to keep my left hand on my chest and raise my left elbow to keep the range marshal, TO and spotters happy in the clubs I shoot at.

[Blackey Cole]

There is no rule pentalizing a shooter for sweeping themself

[Yusta B.]

49 minutes ago, Blackey Cole said:

There is no rule pentalizing a shooter for sweeping themself

I'm pretty sure it's a range rule where Cold Lake Kid shoots.

[Roscoe Regulator]

6 hours ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Doing that, you will first sweep your hand with a loaded firearm on your draw. Our posses frown on that and will pass out DQs for it. I had to learn to keep my left hand on my chest and raise my left elbow to keep the range marshal, TO and spotters happy in the clubs I shoot at.

I guess they won't like the left-leg-forward draw then either. Seems kind of hostile to cross draw in general. At a minimum one would be using an oversize holster, which again draws attention to how specialized SASS gear really is.

[Yusta B.]

15 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

At a minimum one would be using an oversize holster, which again draws attention to how specialized SASS gear really is.

Not oversized, just a cross-draw holster designed for the purpose. They can be very fast. And most gear for most competitive sports is "specialized".

[Roscoe Regulator]

17 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

Not oversized, just a cross-draw holster designed for the purpose. They can be very fast. And most gear for most competitive sports is "specialized".

I know about specialized, but in some shooting sports the premise is about simulating the real world. IDPA, for example, is supposed to be about street gear, but we see how long that lasted. I was advised to buy a special, plastic holster, right from the get-go. However, I expect Old West gunfighters used any advantage they could. At my current stage I need to make do with what I have.

When given a chance to shoot, my cross draw came out with no problems or assistance. I will keep in mind though to control where my idle left hand is.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

The most important thing is safety ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Then HAVING FUN !!!

Have FUN and don't overly worry about what others think should be fun !

I have long ago lost count of well meaning Folks that try to give me advice on how to load lighter loads for less recoil ....

I choose to shoot full case loads of Goex 3f and this is done on Purpose to match the ballistics of the Pre 1900 loads ...

They had very good preforming powders in the day ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, perhaps because their lives depended on it ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Roscoe Regulator]

Continuing with the topic of using what I already own, I am going to do a new load in 357 cases running at 38 Special velocity, guessing at this point with a +p load to make sure the bullets will exit the rifle barrel during testing. In theory the load in the larger cases should be well enough within velocity limits. If it runs well enough in the Uberti Lightning, I will give that a try, using 38 Special ammo in a pair of Uberti Stallions or a pair of Lightning pistols, all chambered for 38 Special. I ordered a loading strip, so expect keeping the ammo straight should go okay. I will try one of those loading tubes eventually.

 

I cannot rapid fire at my regular range so will schedule a trip to the range in the mountains that is not supervised.

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

Roscoe

I load 357 and 38 loads exactly the same for this game. It is a small amount of Solo1000, Bullseye or 700X to give about 635 fps. We aren't supposed to give loading data on the Wire.  The only reason I bother with 357 is my 73 rifle likes to feed the longer loads better.

Since you are in SC why don't you come west in October to the Tennessee State match in Wartrace Oct 12-14 ? Allways a hoot

Imis, who lives up/down to his alias

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

On 5/30/2017 at 6:39 AM, Blackey Cole said:

There is no rule pentalizing a shooter for sweeping themself

 

On 5/30/2017 at 7:29 AM, Yusta B. said:

I'm pretty sure it's a range rule where Cold Lake Kid shoots.

 

Blackey: You are correct under SASS rules.

 

Yusta B. Yes, it is. Here in Ontario Canada we have to be extra careful about any unnecessary risk.

For example,

Levering a rifle before it is pointed down range will earn you a 10 second MSV. Repeats can earn you a SD.

 A round shot over the berm is a MDQ

Firearms can only be handled in a marked safety area; at the load/unload tables or at the firing line with the TO present.

All long guns are carried muzzle up. (only)

No dry firing at the unload/loading tables.

Any and all dropped rounds are "dead" no matter where they may land.

Basically, almost any incident on the range can cause a closure for an investigation, which may last for some time.

There are even some ranges that do not permit "rapid" fire. There must be a 3 to 5 second delay between shots. (Not the ranges I belong to)

We have certain authorities waiting to pounce on any issue, real or perceived. This results in most ranges being extra careful.  

[Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life]

FWIW I have shot cross draw since I started CAS in 2003.  I always start the pistol string with my left cross draw pistol and stand at a 90 degree angle to line of fire when pulling that left pistol for two reasons.  One - no "dance" is involved.  I'm not sweeping anyone with that first pistol.  Two - I always know which pistol has been fired and is empty especially on a split pistol string where you have to move to a different position to shoot the second pistol. 

[Borrachon]

Ok, so I have my ruger blackhawks 45 colt, I have a rossi also 45, and a SxS ext. triggered coach.

I've been to winter range, loved all 5 days but didn't participate yet. State in tombstone is coming up, and I know it's full, figured I would try when I got there. No clubs in tucson, so not much help. Been practicing on my own. 

So, long explanation for simple question. What catagory would I participate in? And is there a problem with any of my iron? I'm sure costume and leather can be adjusted.

I'm sure it's an old question, but I just started back in january.

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

1 hour ago, Borrachon said:

Ok, so I have my ruger blackhawks 45 colt, I have a rossi also 45, and a SxS ext. triggered coach.

I've been to winter range, loved all 5 days but didn't participate yet. State in tombstone is coming up, and I know it's full, figured I would try when I got there. No clubs in tucson, so not much help. Been practicing on my own. 

So, long explanation for simple question. What catagory would I participate in? And is there a problem with any of my iron? I'm sure costume and leather can be adjusted.

I'm sure it's an old question, but I just started back in january.

 

Your firearms are legal for the age based categories.

[Borrachon]

16 minutes ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said:

 

Your firearms are legal for the age based categories.

Great. Thank you.