Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 It is my hope that this post will be a slight change of pace from typical WTC threads. During one of the stages at our local match this past Saturday (05.20.2017), something occurred. I thought I would post this on the WIRE in the form of a WTC, only this time, it's not a Procedural or Rule call. Later I will post the Original Video with the answer. MUSIC was purposefully overlaid on the video as the sounds could be a dead giveaway. Hoping that the body language and other visual occurrences would provide the answer. (My apologies) Also: What Happened? has nothing to do with the stage set-up or the video angles or position of the video taker. Has to do with the shooter. Should be fun to see the variety of responses. (Try not to look at previous responses before posting yours) The ANSWER has been posted below this thread. NOTE: Even though it happened to me, after watching the video numerous times, even I failed to see what it was. ENJOY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hope you enjoyed this match! Looks like one barrel only on your SxS was firing. Seeing you continue to stand and point at targets that are down? I'd say you let your firearm problem overload your sense to move on to the next gun. (Unless that was the last gun of the stage - there's little in the way of context in this video extraction). Is the locking bar not holding the action closed on that Stoeger after the first shot? And, keep the brass picker back behind the firing line when a shooter is still live and hot with a firearm. At the least it's distracting to shooter. At worst, it's an injury waiting to happen. If the brass picker is going after YOUR rifle brass because rifle has already been shot from the down-range table, that tells me you had to come UP-RANGE to get to the position to shoot shotgun from, so that's rather poor stage design. Made even worse from a safety point of view by shooting at an angle across the bay instead of down-range. Not enough to refuse to shoot it, perhaps, but enough to bring to folks attention that there's going to be lots of shot splatter where the camera is located, and farther to the left of that. Good way to get a piece of shot thru the lens. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totes Magoats Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Can't tell because of the music in the video, but it appears there was an AD when you shut the shotgun. Do you keep your finger on the bang switch when you are shutting the gun or was it a malfunction? Totes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Yeah, I didn't hear any shots because of the music! You'll have to turn down the entertainment system at the range - couldn't hear any TO commands either! GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Dave, SASS # 53158 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: And, keep the brass picker back behind the firing line when a shooter is still live and hot with a firearm. At the least it's distracting to shooter. At worst, it's an injury waiting to happen. If the brass picker is going after YOUR rifle brass because rifle has already been shot from the down-range table, that tells me you had to come UP-RANGE to get to the position to shoot shotgun from, so that's rather poor stage design. Made even worse from a safety point of view by shooting at an angle across the bay instead of down-range Howdy Joe The stage was set up so that all movement was forward. Shoot the rifle from the starting plate and move forward and left to the shotgun. All shooting was down range. The brass picker didn't interfere with the shooter in any way. The problem is with where the good padre's wife is standing and I will speak to them about that. There is learning curve for the folks shooting video as well as the folks doing the shooting Kingfish Dave - Posse Marshal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 20 minutes ago, Kingfish Dave, SASS # 53158 said: The brass picker didn't interfere with the shooter in any way. The safety considerations are about pards other than the shooter getting up on the firing line while stage is hot. To keep them safe, not just to avoid distracting the shooter, although that is good to ensure too. Camera angles and field of view mean it's tough to capture all one needs to know about a stage layout on video or a photo, but we were asked to guess what happened from just a fragment of the whole stage. We would certainly shoo the brass picker away from the firing line before starting the shooter if that were our stage. It sounds like the rifle position established the farthest up-range firing line on this stage (being the first position), and that means the picker was certainly in front of at least that firing line in this video fragment. And it appears the picker was exactly at the shotgun firing line during the video. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. D. Pickett Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Looks like the shotgun either had a misfire or one barrel was not working. Music hides sounds of the shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 No previous post read. Looks to me that you loaded a single round in your SG both times. I don't have my hearing aids right now so I really can't hear any shooting sounds on the video. NOW, I will read the above post. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I could see it better in one of your other videos but it looked like you are resting you thumb on the safety and engaging it during recoil? Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Camera is at the same line as the shooter or even a bit forward of the line of fire. SDQ if so and yell at the cinematographer. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: Camera is at the same line as the shooter or even a bit forward of the line of fire. SDQ if so and yell at the cinematographer. Ike A shooter CAN NOT be penalized for anyone being inside of the shooters 170 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Actually they can, it was on the wire awhile back. A shooter was changing shooting positions and he swept the counters that were standing too close to the line with his pistols. He was walking parallel to the shooting line. Shooter is responsible to be aware of whats going on around him. If this is what happened the TO also may need to be reminded. If I'm wrong we'll soon see. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said: I could see it better in one of your other videos but it looked like you are resting you thumb on the safety and engaging it during recoil? Randy Randy: Good eye. Although I have not yet had the safety removed on my Stoeger (which will be done sometime on the future), I had a real time with engaging and disengaging the safety in my first shoot. (the previous videos you referenced) In my second match, after much practice, I resolved that issue, and now disengage the safety once the barrels have been locked back in place; however, that is not what happened here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: Camera is at the same line as the shooter or even a bit forward of the line of fire. SDQ if so and yell at the cinematographer. Ike Ike: What Happened? has nothing to do with the stage set-up or the video angles or position of the video taker. Has to do with the shooter. NOTE: I've now added this to the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: Actually they can, it was on the wire awhile back. A shooter was changing shooting positions and he swept the counters that were standing too close to the line with his pistols. He was walking parallel to the shooting line. Shooter is responsible to be aware of whats going on around him. If this is what happened the TO also may need to be reminded. If I'm wrong we'll soon see. Ike How much do you care to wager on this? Cowboy Chronical April 2015 Pg 7 http://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/15eChron/15aprchron.pdf BTW: Wasn't there but guessing the shotgun doubled on you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: Actually they can, it was on the wire awhile back. A shooter was changing shooting positions and he swept the counters that were standing too close to the line with his pistols. He was walking parallel to the shooting line. Shooter is responsible to be aware of whats going on around him. If this is what happened the TO also may need to be reminded. If I'm wrong we'll soon see. Ike I think you're wrong on this one. If someone other than a shooter crosses the firing line the shooter has no control over that. The TO should immediately call a cease fire and the 'person' who encroached over the firing line should be severely reprimanded. At that point the shooter has done nothing wrong assuming they cease fire as soon as instructed or as soon as they become aware someone is now downrange of them, whichever occurs sooner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Get rid of the music!!! Please??? I'd much rather hear what's going on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Starting to get off subject. Might be a good time to explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Appeared to me you only loaded one shell at a time or one barrel isn't firing. Hard to tell. By the way you held the gun up & looked after the last shot, I'm thinking the second barrel didn't shoot. Possible shells too light if inertia trigger or locking lug not holding if double trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodyMaverick Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Looks to me like you loaded two, fired one, and shucked by mistake without firing the second one. I did this for every target on 2 consecutive stages one of the few times I tried to shoot a match with an SxS. It didn't make for very good stage times but it did provide decent entertainment for the posse. and yes you should probably have someone disable the auto-safety on your shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 just loaded one each time? tried to shot two anyway? cr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 38 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said: just loaded one each time? tried to shot two anyway? cr +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.T Chambers, SASS#76185 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 You left two knock-downs standing and appear to be single-loading your scattergun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Clark Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said: Randy: Good eye. Although I have not yet had the safety removed on my Stoeger (which will be done sometime on the future), I had a real time with engaging and disengaging the safety in my first shoot. (the previous videos you referenced) In my second match, after much practice, I resolved that issue, and now disengage the safety once the barrels have been locked back in place; however, that is not what happened here. FKCGG.... Don't disable (removed in your words) the safety, just the automatic feature of it! It produces the desired result plus lets you have a safety if needed for whatever purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Sent you a PM Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I'm going to guess one of 3 things. 1) your Stoeger is opening up under recoil and not allowing a second shot to be made. 2) it's a single trigger and you are reaching back and pulling the trigger gaurd for the second shot. Or it's a double trigger and you are doing same. 3) it's a double trigger and you are pulling the same one twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloody Dave Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Dear "Failure to Launch": We have been reading your stuff for about a year and a half, and been cheering you on to go and shoot! You did last month and your followers are really proud of you.... including myself! What did you do that is so interesting? And how come it takes so long for your home club to post scores? Regards, Bloody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Without reading all the above, I'm going to say that on the first load, you closed the action and had a finger on the trigger (either if it's a double), had the resulting AD, and when you reloaded, you didn't get both hammers cocked. Read the above responses, and agree with just de-activating the automatic feature on the safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Pards: First of all, I really appreciate the response to the video, as this was the first time I tried to edit a YouTube video. As I mentioned in the original thread, I put music over the video to drown out the sound of all the firing of guns both at our stage and in the stage next to us. I was hoping to have you rely on your visual senses watching the shotgun and the body language. Randy Saint Eagle took this approach and even went to my older videos and was keen enough to catch the safety issue I was having with the shotgun in my first match. That issue was overcome in this match and although that wasn't "What Happened?" I give him kudos for his research. Below is the video with original soundtrack along with the answer below it. For those of you who want a second try (on your own), you can play the video before moving down the screen for the answer. SCROLL DOWN FOR ANSWER As I approached the table, I picked up my shotgun and loaded two shells. As I raised the shotgun and placed my finger on the first trigger, before I had sighted on the knockdown, I pulled the first trigger, thus missing the first knockdown. (You can see the shotgun recoil at the 17-18 sec mark of the video) The shot was just over the top of the knockdown as I saw the leaves burst on the berm. Aiming for the knockdown, my second shot took it out. This required me to reload two additional shells, the first of which hit the second knockdown. I was still trying to absorb what had happened which is the reason for the hesitancy at the end as I still needed to ensure that I removed the live round from the shotgun chamber before moving to the next station. ANSWER: Accidental Discharge ( or my first attempt to shoot Outlaw Style.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 10 hours ago, Bloody Dave said: Dear "Failure to Launch": We have been reading your stuff for about a year and a half, and been cheering you on to go and shoot! You did last month and your followers are really proud of you.... including myself! What did you do that is so interesting? And how come it takes so long for your home club to post scores? Regards, Bloody Bloody Dave: I really appreciate the kind words of encouragement. It makes me feel like I am accomplishing something productive on the WIRE outside of concentrating on shooting well and learning the sport and having fun at the matches as well. I have posted the Answer to the thread above. As for the posting of scores, our crew that works the website and posts the scores were in Georgia this past weekend for the State Championship and the posses were told that the scores would be delayed in getting posted as a result. I'll take numerous #1 and #2 winners in a State Championship over getting our scores posted. (See the thread entitled: currently on TAB 2 of the SASS WIRE) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Father--- It looks like you have the loading part down pretty well! As others have said, you may want to remove the stock and cut a bit off the automatic safety actuator rod. The safety will still work manually, but will be one less thing to think about. Thanks for the test! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 16 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said: Father--- It looks like you have the loading part down pretty well! As others have said, you may want to remove the stock and cut a bit off the automatic safety actuator rod. The safety will still work manually, but will be one less thing to think about. Thanks for the test! Eyesa: Thanks for the review and will definitely keep the manual safety feature and decommission the automatic safety. As for loading, practicing with Snap Caps has helped. You will; however, see in the Second Match videos that will be posted later, that ejecting my Winchester AA's became more difficult which will require my cleaning the shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Accidental discharge? Nah...you're supposed to say "I did that on purpose 'cause I love shootin' this shotgun soooooo much!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 You might want to practice shouldering your long guns with your trigger finger on the front of or outside the trigger guard. It doesn't take that long to find the trigger as you are acquiring the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 Quote Has to do with the shooter. Definitely didn't own SxS shotguns with a safety and hunted with them for years as a kid. If so, releasing the safety would be an involuntary mind reaction when pulling the gun up on target at CAS matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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