Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Hi Folks, The title says it all. Should we allow Gunfighter shooting style in age-based categories? What are the objections? I know I brought this up at the Summit; but couldn't find my notes on that. Regards, Allie PS I will never shoot GF style; but, I have no objections to allowing it in age-based categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I pushed it for years when I was a TG, never could get any traction. People were scared to death it would kill the GF category. But then they have BP GF and Senior GF and on and on? I think any category that does not specify it be show duelist it should be allowed. Good luck with your quest. "I have two guns, one for each of you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 12, 2017 Author Share Posted May 12, 2017 Hi Goody, Your comment just made a very good reason to allow it pop into my head. Common comments at the Summits were "no new categories" and "let the MDs decide if they want to add categories. If GF style was allowed in age-based categories, it might cut down the requests for categories like Senior GF and could result in a reduction in match costs and entry fees. Also, the shooter could select a shooting style that best fits the scenario without being locked into GF. A shooter could develop the GF skills on easier stages first. Regards, Allie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Let's see...I have 2 eyes, 2 hands, 2 revolvers. Looks like I've got all the requirements! I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Absolutely, it would allow a shooter to choose the style that was best for that stage, whether two handed, one handed or both handed. Duelist is currently allowed in ANY category, and it has not diminished the ranks of folks signing up in a duelist specific categeory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yes. Then eliminate BP GF and Sr GF. While we're at it, eliminate about half of the age based categories. We just don't need a category for each five year age increment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spittoon O Tool SASS #62053 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Sure, if you let a pard use a 1873 rifle in B-Western. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 NO !!!! One of the justifications used to get B-Western approved was that it was the ONLY category in CAS that allowed the shooter to choose the style of shooting for each stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 YES!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 We already have Gunfighter. Most places have senior gunfighter and more. What's the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bart Solo Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Why make the change? If somebody wants to shoot gunfighter they can just shoot gunfighter or B-Western. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 We obviously need more categories and more rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Bart Solo said: Why make the change? If somebody wants to shoot gunfighter they can just shoot gunfighter or B-Western. And they will be with everyone else that likes to shoot GF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I don't see the need for it. We already break down the gunfighter, to Senior, Silver Senior, Elderstatesman, etc, so why add gunfighter to the other age based categories. B-Western was brought about in part to be the only category to allow a shooter to use gunfighter, duelist, or two hand, as they see fit. This topic has nothing to do with changing the types of firearms used in B-Western!! The rules for the category are not broke, so quit trying to "fix" them. If you want to use a '73 you already have plenty of other categories to choose from! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 If GF is allowed in age based categories at the discretion of the shooter, will the shooter who signed up for GF also have the option to shoot any style he/she prefers on a given stage? I don't think so. Unless someone post a GREAT discussion point that can change my mind....... I will say no. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Too Tall Bob Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 28 minutes ago, Bart Solo said: Why make the change? If somebody wants to shoot gunfighter they can just shoot gunfighter or B-Western. +1 Ok - I will probably get taken to task for this but what ho! My understanding of what you are proposing is the ability (in age based categories) to be able to switch between 1 or 2 handed shooting and Gunfighter within a stage/match dependent upon which style gives the greatest advantage. Quote AM:(Also, the shooter could select a shooting style that best fits the scenario without being locked into GF.) What becomes of parity in shooting styles? Some folks are far faster in gunfighter mode than others and conversly others may not want to or be able to shoot gf. Allowing the ability to switchback and forth between shooting styles could be an introduction of an unfair advantage for some folks in many situations. Why add this into the mix ? It potentially allows some folks to doninate any category they step into as opposed to shooting in a category aimed at a specific style. I can see a spotter's nightmare as well. If you want to shoot gunfighter - please do so - in GF or BW you can still shoot dbl duelist if your approach to the stage would benefit from it. (Quote shooter's handbook: GUNFIGHTER Any Main Match fixed sight model revolver. Only Gunfighter Style or Double Duelist Style may be used.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Yes please. I've got a a new set of chaps and want to shoot classic cowboy. I don't see a problem whatsoever. In my estimation, it would have virtually no effect other than to help folks that want to use their shooting style in other categories. I believe that 95% of the people that don't shoot gunfighter, still wouldn't shoot it. Once in awhile, someone that is skilled at shooting gunfighter, but not in a gunfighter category, might try it out on a particular stage, but I find this to be a rare occurrence. Folks aren't going to be switching back and forth for a competitive advantage. Those that compete at a high level tend to practice a lot with one shooting style. I don't see anyone practicing both styles just in case they come across a stage that might be shot a little bit faster gunfighter, while taking away valuable practice time from their main shooting style. If they did, well good for them. The two major benefits I can see for allowing it in any category would be in the case of an injury to one of the hands, thumbs, etc, a shooter could revert back to an age based category and continue a match. And second, probably most important, you might get a few folks at smaller matches that would like to try out gunfighter for a stage or two and thus a better chance of growing our ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 NO NO NO NO NO Gunfighter is a SKILL - not a party trick to be pulled out when it is beneficial. Sometimes Gunfighter is a benefit to the shooter - sometimes a hinderance. You want to shoot Gunfighter - you put up with the good and the bad of the style. This is as inappropriate as asking "Should smokeless powder be allowed in Blackpowder categories?" Because then folks could use the propellant they think is best based on the stage design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: This is as inappropriate as asking "Should smokeless powder be allowed in Blackpowder categories?" Because then folks could use the propellant they think is best based on the stage design. BS. That's a false equivalency and you know it. There is nothing in the OP that asks for any other shooting style to be shot in gunfighter. You want an apples to apples comparison? The real question should be "can black powder be shot in any category?" The answer of course is yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAST CHANCE Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Another category? That's just what sass needs !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Beard Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 No, for all the reasons listed above!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 No from this side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Nah, I don't think so. Let's not scramble the categories any more than they are now... If ya wanna shoot GF, shoot GF. If ya wanna shoot somethin' else, shoot somethin' else... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said: BS. That's a false equivalency and you know it. There is nothing in the OP that asks for any other shooting style to be shot in gunfighter. You want an apples to apples comparison? The real question should be "can black powder be shot in any category?" The answer of course is yes. The "inclusion" of Gunfighter style into age based categories would be SOLELY to allow the use of varied pistol shooting disciplines for the shooter to use at their discretion when or if stage design or their skillset will benefit from it. The "inclusion" of smokeless powder into BP categories would be solely to allow the use of varied propellants for the shooter to use at their discretion when or if stage design or their skillset will benefit from it. Am I turning the question around? Absolutely Is that a false equivalancy? I don't believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Lastly - allow Gunfighter in age based categories and I have shot my last match as a Gunfighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 4 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said: The "inclusion" of Gunfighter style into age based categories would be SOLELY to allow the use of varied pistol shooting disciplines for the shooter to use at their discretion when or if stage design or their skillset will benefit from it. The "inclusion" of smokeless powder into BP categories would be solely to allow the use of varied propellants for the shooter to use at their discretion when or if stage design or their skillset will benefit from it. Am I turning the question around? Absolutely Is that a false equivalancy? I don't believe so. Turning the question around is by definition a false equivalency my friend. Now if someone decides to ask the question "should squaw grip be allowed in gunfighter category?" then you and I are on the same page with an emphatic: hell no! I just don't see any difference here in allowing gunfighter to be shot in other categories than allowing black powder to be shot in other categories. Or duelist style. Gunfighter is the only shooting style so hindered in this manner. I'm not competitive in this game, but if I were and wanted to compete with like weapons, then I would have to shoot in classic cowboy since I use 40 caliber and up as well as a hammered double or 87. But instead I shoot FGCF and compete against folks shooting 38's and slicked up SKB's. It doesn't matter to me, but if we are comparing competitive advantage issues then this is a good example of not being allowed to compete on parity while using one's chosen shooting style. This is one of the very rare cases where someone has to choose style over category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 OK Pards, let's not get into a brawl. May have to move this conversation to the SASS WIRE SALOON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 No. Shooting the different styles from stage to stage in BW is a hoot for me on those occasions I do it. Costume requirements are not hard to achieve either. The big problem is a lot of folks don't own a '92 or newer rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phiren Smoke GUNFIGHTER Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 I think allowing GF in age based categories would allow those that would like to try it to do so without committing to the style for the whole match. This actually could cause the GF category to grow. Duelist is already allowed in age based and you very seldom see people shooting that style unless they just want to try it. Why would GF be any different. Very few traditional style shooters consider GF any advantage, so I doubt many shooters would try gaming the system. If they do, the worst that happens is we finally have a true open category without adding any new ones. I do not think Allie is asking for another category, just allowing GF style in aged based categories, in which case I see no real downside so I vote yes. Smoke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 2 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: Hi Folks, The title says it all. Should we allow Gunfighter shooting style in age-based categories? What are the objections? I know I brought this up at the Summit; but couldn't find my notes on that. Regards, Allie PS I will never shoot GF style; but, I have no objections to allowing it in age-based categories. Pot stirring troublemaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 Allie said in "age based" categories, So we would add 49er GF, Elderstatesman GF, Silver Senior GF, Am I missing a couple??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted May 12, 2017 Share Posted May 12, 2017 1 minute ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Allie said in "age based" categories, So we would add 49er GF, Elderstatesman GF, Silver Senior GF, Am I missing a couple??? You misunderstood. She is not talking about adding categories. The request was to consider ALLOWING age based categories to shoot Gunfighter style if they choose to do so. Just for the record..... I say NO! Allowing the shooting of Gunfighter style in any age based would eliminate the need for a separate Gunfighter Category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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