Holster rules questions

[Carolina Gunslinger]

I have come to enjoy shooting my six-guns in both CAS and another shooting competition. I am considering having a leather rig built specifically to hold six revolvers on my belt safely during heavy movement.  The question is how much flack am I going to receive for wearing six holsters and only using two at a CAS match? I'm guessing that at least two of these aren't going to be the two fists apart given my 32 inch waist. So if I pony up the gold to get this are there any other holster requirements or restrictions for CAS? I am thinking that the biggest focus is going to be canting the grips to be presented optimally while keeping them from bonking together.

[Captain Bill Burt]

You'll pick up a penalty unless the holsters were for pocket pistols or derringers.  SHB Page 11 

 

All handguns must be carried in a safe holster capable of retaining the firearm throughout a normal range of motion.
Main match holsters must be located one on each side of the belly button and separated by at least the width of two fists at the belt.

 

 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

Got it. Declare them as Derringer holsters. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Use OR PRESENCE of illegal equipment is a SDQ.

If "main match" revolvers fit in them, "declaring them as Derringer holsters" doesn't make them so.

[Trailrider #896]

Why do you need six holsters on the belt?  And, why not make them removable (held in place when you need all six by snaps or Chicago screw posts)?  Wouldn't take that long to remove/replace if you did it that way.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

What sport needs 6 holsters?  Why not make all your holsters slide onto your belt, then install them as needed?

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

A 32" waist, wow what you need is a time and space warp to get this job done!  Even using 1862 Ubertis in California Slim Jim or Tennessee Skin Tight holsters would be a tough fit in less than 32" of space.  Are we talking about some sort of Josey Wales thing going on?  I would certainly hate having to be the one trying to load that many cylinders between stages!! 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I'm really not trying split hairs here, but where in the rules does it say you can't have more than two holsters? I believe it says one must be on each side of the buckle, but doesn't specifically state only two. A specific example would be shooting Josey Wales style with four pistols holstered. Another example, while at a practice and not a match, my friend a new shooter had two straight hang and a cross draw. Being a new shooter he hadn't decided which style he liked more. So he alternated each way until he decided on two straight hang. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

23 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

I'm really not trying split hairs here, but where in the rules does it say you can't have more than two holsters? I believe it says one must be on each side of the buckle, but doesn't specifically state only two. A specific example would be shooting Josey Wales style with four pistols holstered. Another example, while at a practice and not a match, my friend a new shooter had two straight hang and a cross draw. Being a new shooter he hadn't decided which style he liked more. So he alternated each way until he decided on two straight hang. 

 

See the rule from the SHB quoted in the 2nd post...ONE on each side...2 sides...do the math .... = TWO holsters.

 

BTW - "Josey Wales" is not a SASS-recognized category...therefore there are no SASS rules regulating it.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

It says one on each side. It does not say only one. Yeah sitting hairs I know but in almost every other rule book case rules are much more specific. 

 

As for Josey Wales, I know it's not sass sanctioned, but are non sanctioned categories allowed to skirt the rules in regards to the wearing of equipment? For example, can someone create the bro or manzier category and wear their shotgun belt at the nipple level? 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

17 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

It says one on each side. It does not say only one. Yeah sitting hairs I know but in almost every other rule book case rules are much more specific. 

 

As for Josey Wales, I know it's not sass sanctioned, but are non sanctioned categories allowed to skirt the rules in regards to the wearing of equipment? For example, can someone create the bro or manzier category and wear their shotgun belt at the nipple level? 

 

Split hairs all day long if you've a mind to.

I already did the math for you...no additional verbiage required.

 

I keep forgetting that SASS rules don't apply at the monthly match level.

Do whatever the .... you want to for non-sanctioned/made-up categories.

...just don't expect anyone to provide a "rulebook answer" to something that isn't covered in the rules.

[W. D. Pickett]

I would like to see the six holster person sit down with all that iron then get back up!

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Do not the JW matches usually state that two guns holstered and remaining guns staged, as would be the long guns being displaced?? 

[Carolina Gunslinger]

 

 These types of matches can be shot using six six-guns and sometimes even eight per stage. It's a lot of fun and very safe. A lot of folks use magazine fed pistols, but I enjoy revolvers. Sometimes an eight shot DA and sometimes maximum effort fun by Vaqueros.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

I was thinking about maybe having some sort of leather holsters that were paired up in a way. The attachment to the belt has to be fairly robust so I wouldn't be too inclined to me be them on and off. It's all fine with me about it not fitting in the shb. I have CAS gear and if it ruffles too many feathers I can walk the fine line once in a while when I shoot CAS. I'm not going to be a "national" or "world" level competitor. I was just shopping the rules to see what level of hassle to expect. I have my answer. Thanks.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

Actually a much better description of what you really want to do.  Talk with the local match director and you will find many of them are somewhat accommodating to special needs, as long as safety is not a factor and time concerns are not abused.  I was OKed to use the little 32 cap and ball Colts as main match shooters in one instance and no one squawked a peep.  I have heard others talk about using a favorite old DA revolver and or 1911s during the regular monthly matches.  You will likely not be scored but you can have the fun and possibly even treat others to some entertainment.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

15 minutes ago, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said:

Actually a much better description of what you really want to do.  Talk with the local match director and you will find many of them are somewhat accommodating to special needs, as long as safety is not a factor and time concerns are not abused.  I was OKed to use the little 32 cap and ball Colts as main match shooters in one instance and no one squawked a peep.  I have heard others talk about using a favorite old DA revolver and or 1911s during the regular monthly matches.  You will likely not be scored but you can have the fun and possibly even treat others to some entertainment.

 

Wearing extra holsters and using other illegal equipment doesn't usually fall under any accommodation for "special needs"...

"need" has nothing to do with it...sounds more like "want" to me.

 

...but, again, I forget that SASS rules don't apply at the monthly match level.

[Yusta B.]

23 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

...but, again, I forget that SASS rules don't apply at the monthly match level.

 

Depends on where the match is shot ....  

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I guess a better term would have been "special desires" and ones monthly matches is where these can most possibly be accommodated.  It has been many years but on those occasions I have seen non approved guns used, they were easily whupped by the standard gear BUT in the grand scheme of things I do think that all present to see those old guns pressed into action were all winners.  BY the way, I am in no way asking for any actual rule or gear change considerations in SASS!

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

This ranks high on the list of silly idea and posts for the month but the month is still young

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

Carolina Gunslinger, if you would just buy two good revolvers, you would not need to carry six.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

2 minutes ago, Major B. S. Walker said:

Carolina Gunslinger, if you would just buy two good revolvers, you would not need to carry six.

BS, if I wanted to reload on the clock...I would carry something else. Get ready for my gunny sack with "Nothing to see here..."

[Carolina Gunslinger]

Slowhand, with the progressive penalties and a hero match director or range officer it's a non starter. I'm good either way. I'm just trying to have fun. "There's no room for that here! You'll shoot your eye out! Get off my porch and outta my yard! In my day we didn't have fun and weeee liked it!" LOL

 

Don't question the concentration or consistency of the Koolaid. Them that don't take kindly, hate that. I am amused by the deference given to some of these folks like they're gods. They bleed like the rest of us(sometimes deservedly) and even get old and fat too. *Shocked face**Whooping laughter* The sport/discipline has regressed to dress up steel challenge with plenty of trophy opportunities. I personally like to move and shoot and be treated like a skilled shooter with enough rope to hang myself in order to shoot the stages with more flexibility. Let those without dexterity and competence bear the burden of the limitations.

 

I'm truly grateful for the idea to shoot pairs of six-guns at the same time though. It's the ultimate way to shoot a match and there is no brass to pick up after every stage. I think I hear Angels harmonizing...Ahhhhhh Now to get faster and more accurate!

[Jim No Horse]

I am a bit late on this post. What is the name of this six...six gun competition? Not to common in central Texas....What is it called?  Jim

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

12 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

I have come to enjoy shooting my six-guns in both CAS and another shooting competition. I am considering having a leather rig built specifically to hold six revolvers on my belt safely during heavy movement.  The question is how much flack am I going to receive for wearing six holsters and only using two at a CAS match? I'm guessing that at least two of these aren't going to be the two fists apart given my 32 inch waist. So if I pony up the gold to get this are there any other holster requirements or restrictions for CAS? I am thinking that the biggest focus is going to be canting the grips to be presented optimally while keeping them from bonking together.

 

19 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Slowhand, with the progressive penalties and a hero match director or range officer it's a non starter. I'm good either way. I'm just trying to have fun. "There's no room for that here! You'll shoot your eye out! Get off my porch and outta my yard! In my day we didn't have fun and weeee liked it!" LOL

 

Don't question the concentration or consistency of the Koolaid. Them that don't take kindly, hate that. I am amused by the deference given to some of these folks like they're gods. They bleed like the rest of us(sometimes deservedly) and even get old and fat too. *Shocked face**Whooping laughter* The sport/discipline has regressed to dress up steel challenge with plenty of trophy opportunities. I personally like to move and shoot and be treated like a skilled shooter with enough rope to hang myself in order to shoot the stages with more flexibility. Let those without dexterity and competence bear the burden of the limitations.

 

I'm truly grateful for the idea to shoot pairs of six-guns at the same time though. It's the ultimate way to shoot a match and there is no brass to pick up after every stage. I think I hear Angels harmonizing...Ahhhhhh Now to get faster and more accurate!

 

You asked a "rules question" in the OP...it was answered according to the rules as found in the SASS SHOOTERS HANDBOOK.

(recommended reading for all participants, BTW)

 

If you don't like the answer, you're invited to keep the subsequent opinionated commentary to yourself.

 

 

 

[Ace_of_Hearts]

I use to be a pretty fair high jumper in my youth....... I never asked to have a trampoline put in front of the bar to make things more fun for me.

I use to pitch semi-pro baseball........ I never did ask to use a special baseball or a full webbed glove.

When I play Monopoly, I don't ask to use three dice when it is my turn.

 

This is Cowboy Action Shooting. If you have a fun game you want to shoot, then start your own club or group and have all the fun you desire (and you are welcome to use anyone's rule book and modify it to your desire to fit your game).

[Captain Bill Burt]

I think we're wasting our time here, from this guy's perspective any rule he doesn't like should be ignored and any one who enforces a rule he doesn't like is a 'hero' match director'. Welcome to my ignore list Gunslinger. I'm done here.

[Tracker Jack Daniels,58780]

Carolina Gunslinger,if you don't like the rules, and you disrespect those that enforce those rules; why in the world do you want to play this game.  The rules have been in existence for a long time and have served this game well.  Play by them or take the consequences.  Don't disparage and call the people who enforce the rules names.  It does not make you look good at all! 

 

Don't come to a match and expect to be welcomed if you do not follow the rues.

[Carolina Gunslinger]

8 hours ago, Jim No Horse said:

I am a bit late on this post. What is the name of this six...six gun competition? Not to common in central Texas....What is it called?  Jim

I sent you a PM about the match in the video. I am in no way trying to topple any apple carts here.  http://zombieshootersassociation.com for anyone else who may be interested. I was just looking at it for the sake of convenience to keep one rig without having to alter it for the CAS. The discussion got out of hand and that's all.

 

Oh well I can't complain about no love lost. I do, however, enjoy the heck out of the Redwood Kid. He's good at ruffling the pwb and for his sarcasm toward others...He deserves it! 

[Jim No Horse]

Hate to admit this but I have yet to get a PM since the new software came online....I see the red number but the next box is a riddle to me so again Gunslinger....is this a real competion  with a parent club and all? My phone would not open your two videos so I am still in the dark? So is there a name for this six...six gun competion? ?.....Jim

[Captain Bill Burt]

9 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Slowhand, with the progressive penalties and a hero match director or range officer it's a non starter. I'm good either way. I'm just trying to have fun. "There's no room for that here! You'll shoot your eye out! Get off my porch and outta my yard! In my day we didn't have fun and weeee liked it!" LOL

 

Don't question the concentration or consistency of the Koolaid. Them that don't take kindly, hate that. I am amused by the deference given to some of these folks like they're gods. They bleed like the rest of us(sometimes deservedly) and even get old and fat too. *Shocked face**Whooping laughter* The sport/discipline has regressed to dress up steel challenge with plenty of trophy opportunities. I personally like to move and shoot and be treated like a skilled shooter with enough rope to hang myself in order to shoot the stages with more flexibility. Let those without dexterity and competence bear the burden of the limitations.

 

I'm truly grateful for the idea to shoot pairs of six-guns at the same time though. It's the ultimate way to shoot a match and there is no brass to pick up after every stage. I think I hear Angels harmonizing...Ahhhhhh Now to get faster and more accurate!

I had to take you off ignore long enough to get a chuckle.

 

I have never judged shooters based on their ability to shoot fast, there's so much more to SASS than that.  But, since you are self admittedly very competent and dexterous and in your own opinion shouldn't 'bear the burden of limitations' let me point out to you that to most fast shooters finishing 18 out of 23 with total times for six stage matches approaching 300 seconds that's not fast, it's not even medium, it's slow, very, very slow. 

 

http://www.westpointgunclub.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/WPGC-02-21-2016-DetailedMatchResultsByRank.pdf

 

But it at least you're a legend, in your own mind if nowhere else.

[Desert Pete SASS #42168]

Don't like CAS and it's rules, try Western Three Gun.  Not sure that their rules would allow six holsters but shooters move more and shoot on the move.

 

There are other shooting sports that move more but(!!!) the shooters are very,  very fast.  And, the top shooters think nothing of $5k to $10k race guns.  If you really are as fast as you claim, there is a sport for you.  I have shot against these guys.  Some of them complete a stage faster than I can clear leather (kydex), let alone get a round off.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

22 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Split hairs all day long if you've a mind to.

I already did the math for you...no additional verbiage required.

 

Palewolf, just like ivory soap, 99 and 44/100% of the time I agree with you. This just happens to be one of those times where I don't see how the rules preclude more than two holster when it says you must wear one on each side of the belt. It does not say only one. And as we have seen from multiple other threads here, without specifically saying something then it can be questioned. The sewn shotgun loops on a corset comes to mind. That went on for 5 or so pages? Anyway, the only way I can see someone using it would be a duelist or classic cowboy that feels one stage might be better to have a cross draw and the next a double straight hang. Too much work for most to go back and forth on styles, and of course the counter is that you can still do it just swap out holster in between stages. But some holsters are really hard to remove.

 

5 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Oh well I can't complain about no love lost. I do, however, enjoy the heck out of the Redwood Kid. He's good at ruffling the pwb and for his sarcasm toward others...He deserves it! 

I am not sure where you are coming from with that. I have nothing but the utmost respect for Palewolf and the thankless job he does for us SASS shooters. If it were up to me, I'd double whatever they pay him to do that job. What the hell? Triple it.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

21 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

 

 These types of matches can be shot using six six-guns and sometimes even eight per stage. It's a lot of fun and very safe. A lot of folks use magazine fed pistols, but I enjoy revolvers. Sometimes an eight shot DA and sometimes maximum effort fun by Vaqueros.

Really - two minute stages? 

I would die of boredom half way thru.

Then again; I doubt I would take two minutes to shoot them either.

[Blackey Cole]

If you don't like the answer don't ask the question I think in the rules it says something like must be worn traditionally or something like that I never heard of six holsters on one gunbelt being tradional maybe three two common and a hideout in the middle of the back but two belt holsters and two shoulder holsters would be more correct.