Cattleman standard vs. Smoke Wagon vs. Deluxe vs.Evil Roy vs. GW II, Alchimista I, in 44-40?

[Warden Callaway]

It's a disease.   Always thinking about another set of guns. With the apparent success of my conversion of a Marlin 1894 from 44 Magnum to 44-40,  I get to thinking about a pair of 44-40 revolvers. 

 

In the Uberti lineup there looks to be the from Taylor's the Cattleman, Smoke Wagon and Smoke Wagon Deluxe.  Cimarron offer the Evil Roy.

 

We have 3 pair of standard Cattleman and really see no negative points. Also, I don't have a problem changing out springs and smoothing off burrs.

 

So my question is,  is the more deluxe models really worth the up charge?  

[Russ T. Sites]

Saves time on replacing springs  and sending to a Smith to be smoothed up

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

It's a disease.   Always thinking about another set of guns. With the apparent success of my conversion of a Marlin 1894 from 44 Magnum to 44-40,  I get to thinking about a pair of 44-40 revolvers. 

 

In the Uberti lineup there looks to be the from Taylor's the Cattleman, Smoke Wagon and Smoke Wagon Deluxe.  Cimarron offer the Evil Roy.

 

We have 3 pair of standard Cattleman and really see no negative points. Also, I don't have a problem changing out springs and smoothing off burrs.

 

So my question is,  is the more deluxe models really worth the up charge?  

The Smoke Wagons have checkered grips and a slightly lowered hammer and also a thicker front sight than the regular Cattleman.

[Stoney Bottoms, SASS #52760]

Warden

 

I'll bring my smokewagons to the owl creek shoot, so you can handle them.  I've never handled the deluxe smokewagons so I can't compare but I like the regular ones just fine.

 

Stoney

[Too Tall Bob]

I have a pair of the smoke wagon deluxe with 5.5" barrels. They are sweet guns. There is a world of handling difference between them and standard cattleman and regular smoke wagons. Very smooth. 

[Warden Callaway]

I actually like the features of the  Alchimista II with the 60 grip frame and lowered hammer.  I've just never handled one.

 

Taylor's does not list the Gunfighter in 44-40.

[Okoboji Kid]

My experience is that the "Deluxe" models do offer some value for money.  For example, I have 2 pairs of the Evil Roy's from Cimarron that are fairly close in performance and smoothness, etc. to a pair of Cattlemen that have had a full action job done on them by one of the game's leading gunsmiths, but which were very rough and heavy right out of the box.  Still, the professionally tuned ones are clearly better.  Also, unfortunately, Warden, I don't believe the Evil Roy's are available in .44-40.

[Warden Callaway]

1 hour ago, Okoboji Kid said:

My experience is that the "Deluxe" models do offer some value for money.  For example, I have 2 pairs of the Evil Roy's from Cimarron that are fairly close in performance and smoothness, etc. to a pair of Cattlemen that have had a full action job done on them by one of the game's leading gunsmiths, but which were very rough and heavy right out of the box.  Still, the professionally tuned ones are clearly better.  Also, unfortunately, Warden, I don't believe the Evil Roy's are available in .44-40.

 

Cimarron lists then on their website. 

 

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/evil-roy-comp-sa-5-1-2-44-40-5-1-2-in.html

 

If you want a 357 or 45 Colt,  they are offered in infinite choices of configurations.  But not nearly as many choices with the 44-40. 

[BRAZOS CAIN]

I have a set of Evil Roys in 44-40

[Rye Miles #13621]

I just recently bought a Regular Smoke Wagon and changed the mainspring and trigger return spring in it and it's ready to go! It's the same thing as the Deluxe only not slicked up which is pretty easy to do yourself. I'm going to buy another one and slick that one up too! You save about $150.00 if you go with the regular SW, at least I did anyway!

[Warden Callaway]

Add the EMF Great Western II and Alchimista I to the lineup.   I assume the GW and Alchimista are Pietta products.  

I have a pair of Pietta Confederate 51 Navy 44s that I'm really impressed with for what they cost me.  

[Charlie Whiskers]

 The Alchimista 1 is available in 44-40, the 2 and 3 are not. They are Pietta built. I have a pair of the 1's in 44-40 but I had the custom shop put in the 2's lowered hammers before shipping them. I shoot Duelist. Very smooth right out of the box. So are the Uberti built Smoke Wagon Deluxe versions.

 

[Okoboji Kid]

11 hours ago, BRAZOS CAIN said:

I have a set of Evil Roys in 44-40

13 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

Cimarron lists then on their website. 

 

http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/evil-roy-comp-sa-5-1-2-44-40-5-1-2-in.html

 

 

My apologies...you gentlemen are absolutely correct, of course.  My erroneous posting stems from the fact that my ER's are in stainless steel, so when I checked the Cimarron catalog, I looked at only the SS listings and assumed that the calibers available in stainless applied across the board...I won't make that mistake again! 

 

[Cheatin' Chamberlin]

We have two sets of Smoke Wagon deluxe and one set of Evil Roy's. My wife and I like the Smoke Wagons better. They have a thinner grip than the Evil Roy's. Also the rear sight has been opened up on the Smoke Wagons for easier sight picture and faster. The Smoke Wagons have lighter triggers than The Evil Roy's. But that is a person preference to the shooter.

 

If you go with the deluxe model they are race ready out of the box. The standard Smoke Wagons are pretty rough out of the box. To me it was worth the extra dollars for the deluxe models. My next set of pistols will be the short stroke deluxe Smoke Wagons. I would have already purchased them if not for having to replace the engine in my truck!Either the Smoke Wagons or the Evil Roy's they are both nice revolvers!

 

Cheatin' 

 

[Warden Callaway]

We were out and about and stopped in at nearly local gun shop.  They had a good inventory of single action revolvers but none in 44-40.  They are a Uberti dealer so the very knowledgeable sales lady pulled out the Uberti catalog.   They have the El Patrone and competition El Patrone.  But not avaliable in 44-40. They cataloged the Cattleman II with funky firing pin retractable system available in 44-40.  I'll pass on that.  I hope that's not what the world is coming to. 

[Cheatin' Chamberlin]

One of the set of Smoke Wagons that we have are in 44/40. Very nice pistols! They digested nothing but Goex! One of my favorite cowboy calibers!

 

Cheatin'

[Warden Callaway]

Cimarron Model P are listed as available in 44-40 as are Cimarron Frontier SA.  Anyone familiar with these two models?  What's the difference?    Are they made by Pietta?  

[Okoboji Kid]

I just plunked down the gold for a pair of NIB Model P's and they are made by Uberti.  Cimarron's Frontier Model is made by Pietta.  I think they may have transfer bar actions, though I can't swear to it, and I can't see that their web site offers any information on that.

 

[Warden Callaway]

3 hours ago, Okoboji Kid said:

I just plunked down the gold for a pair of NIB Model P's and they are made by Uberti.  Cimarron's Frontier Model is made by Pietta.  I think they may have transfer bar actions, though I can't swear to it, and I can't see that their web site offers any information on that.

 

 

Did you get the "Old Model"  with screw base pin and knife blade front sight. Or the "Pre-War" with spring plunger base pin latch?   Does the Pre-War have the knife blade sights also? 

 

I have emails off to Cimarron and Taylor's with questions but too soon for replies.  

 

It's unlikely I'll find any 44-40s in local gun stores.  If found, it'll be small chance it'll be with features I'm looking for and no chance they will have a pair. So...  looks like I'm down to ordering online.  And it's frustrating because there are so many 357s and 45s to look through.  They tend to list the 44-40 in a number of ways-  44-40, 44/40, 44WCF,  etc. 

 

Looks like Warehouse Hunter has biggest selection and stock of Cimarron in 44-40.  Has anyone done business with them?

[Cheatin' Chamberlin]

I purchased my 44/40 Smoke Wagons from Wholesale Hunter. From there listing on Gunbroker. No problems with the transaction.  I am not sure about Warehouse Hunter.

 

Cheatin'

[Okoboji Kid]

Warden,

 

My Model P's are the Pre-war with the spring plunger base pin latch.  I've not actually seen one of the "Old Model" revolvers so can't really answer your question about the sights.  Pictures on Cimarron's website might seem to indicate that the Pre-war sights are ever so slightly taller, but speculating on the basis of website pictures is probably a fool's errand!

 

Good luck in finding what you want.  You're right--options are more limited if you want .44 WCF.  For whatever it's worth, I will add that I also own a pair of Taylor's "Smoke Wagon Deluxe" in .45 Colt, which I like a lot, too.  They are available in .44-44, and I can tell you unequivocally, based on my experience, that Taylor's customer service is second to none and their product is outstanding.  Earlier in this thread, I mentioned my high regard for Cimarron's Evil Roy's--again, for whatever it's worth, I will categorically state that it is a toss-up in my book between the ER's and the Smokewagons.

 

O.K.

[Warden Callaway]

34 minutes ago, Cheatin' Chamberlin said:

I purchased my 44/40 Smoke Wagons from Wholesale Hunter. From there listing on Gunbroker. No problems with the transaction.  I am not sure about Warehouse Hunter.

 

Cheatin'

 

Yea, Wholesale Hunter is what I ment to type.

 

I got some feedback from Cimarron on the Model P,  SA Frontier and Evil Roy.  The Model P is made by Uberti and will likey come with firing pin interruptor system and thin sight blade and small notch.   The SA Frontier is made by Pietta and has the ol'timey hammer system - also with thin sight blade and small notch.   The Evil Roy is a Uberti with wider front sight and square notch.

 

Said Uberti is going to the new firing pin system across the board - "and we can't do anything about it.". 

 

I can find a lot of other  stuff online but only 1 here and 1 there of Smoke Wagons or Evil Roys but not a pair in any one place. 

 

Mary and I did a tour of two large gunshops and two small gun and pawn shops this morning.  I didn't expect to find what I was looking for but expected to find something to look at.  Almost no cowboy guns at any of the shops. Inventory looked low and business slow. 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

13 hours ago, Okoboji Kid said:

I just plunked down the gold for a pair of NIB Model P's and they are made by Uberti.  Cimarron's Frontier Model is made by Pietta.  I think they may have transfer bar actions, though I can't swear to it, and I can't see that their web site offers any information on that.

 

 

Cimarron does not carry any revolvers with a transfer bar.

 

9 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

...Did you get the "Old Model"  with screw base pin and knife blade front sight. Or the "Pre-War" with spring plunger base pin latch?   Does the Pre-War have the knife blade sights also?,,,

 

The "Old Model" (BP frame) Model P has tapered blade front sight and V-notch rear.  The Pre-War frame has squared front and rear sights, non-tapered.  Evil Roys are wider front and rear.  I think all the Pietta Frontier models have squared front and rear sights, even their BP-frame guns.

 

32 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

...I can find a lot of other  stuff online but only 1 here and 1 there of Smoke Wagons or Evil Roys but not a pair in any one place. 

 

Mary and I did a tour of two large gunshops and two small gun and pawn shops this morning.  I didn't expect to find what I was looking for but expected to find something to look at.  Almost no cowboy guns at any of the shops. Inventory looked low and business slow. 

 

Why not skip the middle man?  Any FFL can order directly from Cimarron and will get dealer price.  I expect Taylors, EMF, Dixie are the same.  

 

[Russ T. Sites]

You can always call taylors and ask what they have in stock 

[Warden Callaway]

24 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Why not skip the middle man?  Any FFL can order directly from Cimarron and will get dealer price.  I expect Taylors, EMF, Dixie are the same.  

 

 

The Eval Roy 44-40 5.5 barrel is out of stock at Cimarron.  And they said they would not compete with distributor prices.  They didn't quote me a price. 

 

I'm still waiting for replay from Taylor's.  

[Charlie Whiskers]

39 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Cimarron does not carry any revolvers with a transfer bar.

 

 

The "Old Model" (BP frame) Model P has tapered blade front sight and V-notch rear.  The Pre-War frame has squared front and rear sights, non-tapered.  Evil Roys are wider front and rear.  I think all the Pietta Frontier models have squared front and rear sights, even their BP-frame guns.

 

 

Why not skip the middle man?  Any FFL can order directly from Cimarron and will get dealer price.  I expect Taylors, EMF, Dixie are the same.  

 

 

    I'm an FFL holder. I order from Cimarron, Taylors and EMF frequently. I've never dealt with Dixie, My Alchimista's have a fairly wide front sight blade (3/32) and a square rear notch. Also doesn't have a transfer bar. It has the Colt style firing pin and spring plunger base pin latch.

[Warden Callaway]

I'm not an FFL holder but we've dealt with Taylor's by email a number of times - both with Tammy Loy and Ashley Loy.  I don't do well on the phone so I only talk on one at last resort. 

 

If I order and pay for something out of state and have it shipped to an FFL near me,  then I don't pay sales tax. If someone orders something and sales it to me in my state,  I pay sales tax.  Now, here is kick in the head. We have a distributor 20 miles from us that has a Smoke Wagon 44-40 on their website store.  But I can't just go buy it.  I have to order it, pay for shipping and then pay state sales tax. 

[Warden Callaway]

Update,  

 

Mary talked with Tammy at Taylor's this morning.  They are out of Smoke Wagon - standard or deluxe in 44-40 5.5" at this time.  But expecting a shipment in next week but don't know what will be on it. They have a pair of Smoke Wagon 44-40s in 4-3/4" but the price to us would be full MSRP.  We can save a lot by buying from distributor.  

 

I have spotted one Smoke Wagon Deluxe at two different distributors but no place has two in stock in this configuration. Got the hammer cocked but just not ready to pull the trigger. 

 

 

[Warden Callaway]

I ordered a Smoke Wagon Deluxe from Buds Guns this afternoon.   They only had the one in stock in 44-40 5.5".   There are others out there.  I'll just have to decide on who to get it from.  

[Charlie Whiskers]

You won't be disappointed. I know 2 shooters that have them and are very satisfied.

[Warden Callaway]

8 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

I ordered a Smoke Wagon Deluxe from Buds Guns this afternoon.   They only had the one in stock in 44-40 5.5".   There are others out there.  I'll just have to decide on who to get it from.  

 

Well, an odd thing happened on my way home from the market,  soon after placing the order with Buds,  the inventory in ever online dealer went stock out.  Ever one, over a half a dozen that I was tracking is now gone.  Even the ones on my Gunbroker watch list is gone, gone, gone.  I suspected that I was looking at the same gun no matter where I went and now I'm convinced that I'm right. 

 

In a couple of weeks I should have one to play with. I have a pair of Cattleman 45s with 5.5 barrels so I could shoot a mixed pair without being too lopsided. 

[Nickel City Dude]

WC

I have a NIB Smoke Wagon in 44-40 with 5.5 inch barrel, Delux that I can sell for $665 + shipping to your FFL.  I purchased it as a back up and then never used it. t.schultz5@roadrunner.com

NCD

[Warden Callaway]

Well, it's all over but the waiting.  

 

This morning Mary and I loaded two old guns I could live without in the truck and headed out to make the rounds of two gunshops we often do business with.  We had a good visit but didn't do any business at the first place.  The second gunshop does business with Taylor's and got on the phone and got prices and availability.   He quoted me a reasonable price and said it would be about a month.   In negotiating a trade of one of the two guns, I was able to cover off most of the cost of the Smoke Wagon. 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Excellent news. I have to say that the smoke wagon is THE gun that got me into this game. I held one at a gun shop once and loved it. It was in 357 though and I wanted it in 45. So I called up long hunter and ordered one. Funny story there is that it took 8 months to receive. I ended up with a couple of rugers while waiting. I still have that smoke wagon, though I prefer to shoot my colts now. All the rugers and other guns I used prior are now gone, but I doubt I'll ever get rid of the smoke wagon. I think you will be happy with yours.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

19 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

Well, it's all over but the waiting.  

 

This morning Mary and I loaded two old guns I could live without in the truck and headed out to make the rounds of two gunshops we often do business with.  We had a good visit but didn't do any business at the first place.  The second gunshop does business with Taylor's and got on the phone and got prices and availability.   He quoted me a reasonable price and said it would be about a month.   In negotiating a trade of one of the two guns, I was able to cover off most of the cost of the Smoke Wagon. 

What did you order?  I thought Taylor's didn't have the bbl length you're looking for.