WTC

[Wyatt]

You have two similar targets. Shooters choice, one must be shot with rifle and the other with pistols .

 

Shooter engages one of the targets with the rifle. Shooter then draws pistol and shoots the same target. 

 

Has the shooter earned a P or is each round on the target a miss?

[Eyesa Horg]

5 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

You have two similar targets. Shooters choice, one must be shot with rifle and the other with pistols .

 

Shooter engages one of the targets with the rifle. Shooter then draws pistol and shoots the same target. 

 

Has the shooter earned a P or is each round on the target a miss?

Stage says "the other", my vote is a P

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Miss for each round fired at the wrong target. a 'P' is for engaging the proper target(s) in the wrong order.

[Lodan B. Fast]

Flow chart. Did the shooter hit all the correct type of targets with legally acquired ammo? NO. Assess misses.

The flow chart is your friend. I have one attached to my cart. Can find most answers there.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Yep, Goody has it.  Rounds fired out of the correct gun at the wrong type of target - are a miss for each round fired.

 

Rather bad stage design that seems to be intentionally trying to trip up a shooter.  At least paint the two targets different colors if you stand up two of the same size and shape at the same distance and want one to be for rifle and one to be pistol.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Grizzly Dave]

Just the miss.  Once the shooter shot the one target with the rifle, that became the rifle target, shooting it with the pistol is shooting the wrong type of target and there for just a miss per the flow chart.

[Wyatt]

3 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Yep, Goody has it.  Rounds fired out of the correct gun at the wrong type of target - are a miss for each round fired.

 

Rather bad stage design that seems to be intentionally trying to trip up a shooter.  At least paint the two targets different colors if you stand up two same size and shape at the same distance and want one to be for rifle and one to be pistol.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

Nothing wrong with the stage design. One target is blue and one white. So quit trying to blame the stage writer. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Okay I'm stupid...what the heck is the "flow chart"", did they have that in the old west??? No really what the heck is it???

[Grizzly Dave]

3 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Okay I'm stupid...what the heck is the "flow chart"", did they have that in the old west??? No really what the heck is it???

 

RO 1 manual page 28.

 

[Texas Bart]

15 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Okay I'm stupid...what the heck is the "flow chart"", did they have that in the old west??? No really what the heck is it???

APPENDIX C - MISS FLOW CHART

RO1, Page 28 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Wow! Looks like I have some homework to do!!! I had no idea there was a flow chart, or least I forgot about it!

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

12 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

 

Nothing wrong with the stage design. One target is blue and one white. So quit trying to blame the stage writer. 

Then your match designer had already taken care of the similarity problem....... No need to be upset.  Your OP did not include that valuable piece of info.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Texas Bart]

Grizzly Dave,

You were faster than me (most people are).

Plus you provided actual document.

[Rye Miles #13621]

20 minutes ago, Grizzly Dave said:

Just the miss.  Once the shooter shot the one target with the rifle, that became the rifle target, shooting it with the pistol is shooting the wrong type of target and there for just a miss per the flow chart.

Hitting the wrong target seems to be a P.  FLOW CHART="Did the shooter engage the targets in the correct order" The answer is NO...>assess procedural.

 

 I'm going by the flow chart, am I missing something in the wording???

[Grizzly Dave]

11 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Hitting the wrong target seems to be a P.  FLOW CHART="Did the shooter engage the targets in the correct order" The answer is NO...>assess procedural.

 

 I'm going by the flow chart, am I missing something in the wording???

 

You missed the words 'except any misses'  the shot on the rifle target was a miss, remember?

[Griff]

16 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Hitting the wrong target seems to be a P.  FLOW CHART="Did the shooter engage the targets in the correct order" The answer is NO...>assess procedural.

 

 I'm going by the flow chart, am I missing something in the wording???

He didn't "hit" the targets out of order, which would earn him the "P".  He "missed" the pistol target!  "A Miss CANNOT result in a P." 

[Eyesa Horg]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

He didn't "hit" the targets out of order, which would earn him the "P".  He "missed" the pistol target!  "A Miss CANNOT result in a P." 

I therefore sit corrected

[Fast Enuff]

The question is what is the definition of a correct type target?

 

One definition:

Before the stage, according to the stage description either target can be rifle or pistol.  That makes them both rifle AND pistol targets.  Both correct type.

 

The other definition:

Once the shooter actually hits one of the targets it's type is determined.

 

So which is it?

[Griff]

Just now, Fast Enuff said:

The question is what is the definition of a correct type target?

 

One definition:

Before the stage, according to the stage description either target can be rifle or pistol.  That makes them both rifle AND pistol targets.  Both correct type.

 

The other definition:

Once the shooter actually hits one of the targets it's type is determined.

 

So which is it?

#2.

[evil dogooder]

55 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Yep, Goody has it.  Rounds fired out of the correct gun at the wrong type of target - are a miss for each round fired.

 

Rather bad stage design that seems to be intentionally trying to trip up a shooter.  At least paint the two targets different colors if you stand up two of the same size and shape at the same distance and want one to be for rifle and one to be pistol.

 

Good luck, GJ

Just wow.  Trying to trip up the shooter because they cant count to ten and switch targets?   Why don't we just set up one target and everybodu dump 24 rounds on it.  And people wonder why sass isn't taken seriously

[Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388]

OK, who opened it ???   LOL.........

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

25 minutes ago, Fast Enuff said:

 

Once the shooter actually hits one of the targets it's type is determined.

 

 

Yes.....= 10 misses

[Diamond S Doug]

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Hitting the wrong target seems to be a P.  FLOW CHART="Did the shooter engage the targets in the correct order" The answer is NO...>assess procedural.

 

 I'm going by the flow chart, am I missing something in the wording???

 

Yes you missed the words correct type

 

Did the shooter hit all of the CORRECT TYPE of targets with legally acquired ammo? that answer is no you would never get to the decision box you quoted.  This is why a miss cannot cause a procedural.

 

Remember: A ―miss is defined as the failure to hit the appropriate target type using the appropriate type firearm. ROI p 24.

[Augustus Goodnight]

Once the shooter engaged the first target with the Rifle they determined what the target types are for the remainder of the stage.

The second target became a pistol target by default of their actions.

When they started the pistol portion of the stage it is as if the first target, the one engaged with the rifle, doesn't even exist anymore.

Hitting a Rifle target with a Pistol can't cause a procedural. 

Thus 10 misses. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 hours ago, Wyatt said:

 

 

1 hour ago, Grizzly Dave said:

 

You missed the words 'except any misses'  the shot on the rifle target was a miss, remember?

Gotcha! I understand now

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

At the beginning of the stage all the targets are pistol/rifle targets........My call is "P" since the target(s) could have been used for either type of firearm at the beginning of the stage......

 

It was a Rifle/Pistol target that shooter chose to engage with Rifle. That doesn't mean it ceased being a Pistol Target. It means  the shooter chose to engage the same pair of Pistol/Rifle targets with both types of firearms thus not following stage instructions. "P"

 

Any unintentional procedural errors caused by ―brain fade,‖ confusion, ignorance, or mistakes (not to exceed one for any given stage).

 

Stan

[Assassin]

Procedural

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Once the shooter chose a target for the rifle engagement, the other target became a pistol target.

Rounds fired from a pistol that fail to HIT a pistol target are scored as MISSES...whether they HIT another type target or not.

[Wyatt]

7 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Once the shooter chose a target for the rifle engagement, the other target became a pistol target.

Rounds fired from a pistol that fail to HIT a pistol target are scored as MISSES...whether they HIT another type target or not.

 

That was my understanding.

 

Thanks 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

This post is pinned & locked at the top of the forum:

 

 

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

46 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Once the shooter chose a target for the rifle engagement, the other target became a pistol target.

Rounds fired from a pistol that fail to HIT a pistol target are scored as MISSES...whether they HIT another type target or not.

Why? What part of the SHB or RO1 or RO2 would lead someone to this conclusion?

[Griff]

38 minutes ago, Wyatt said:

 

That was my understanding.

 

Thanks 

3 minutes ago, Santa Fe River Stan,36999L said:

Why?

 

Stage instruction were to use one of the tagets for the rifle, then the OTHER for pistol.

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

10 minutes ago, Griff said:

 

Stage instruction were to use one of the tagets for the rifle, then the OTHER for pistol.

 

Right....so they didn't follow the stage instructions on the common Rifle/Pistol targets.....P

 

Stan

[Griff]

In a manner of speaking they did.  As I read the OP, there were 2 targets, shooter's choice of which target shot with rifle, automatically making the other the pistol target.  Rifle fired at target A.  Target B is now the designated pistol target.  Shooter did not hit Target B.  Now follow the Miss Flow Chart.

 

Question 1.  Did shooter hit the correct type of targets with legally acquired ammunition?  Answer, NO.  So, we assess misses and move to question 2.

 

Q - 2.  Were the targets hit in the correct order except for any misses?  Not having hit any, the answer is, Yes.  We have arrived at our last decision box.   "No further call."

 

Whether or not the firearms were shot in proper order was not in the OP, so we'll assume they were. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Okay this is getting interesting, I think I'm going back to thinking it's a "P", in simple terms he shot the stage wrong....P