Purpose of removing transfer bars from Vaqueros?

[Dead Eye Raith]

Just curious. Saw that some people do it and wondering why. 

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Removes a major point of failure for some shooters. Also allows you to maximize the tuning of the gun. Realiability is the key to this game. There are some that will claim they have never broken them and probably never will. But I broke somewhere around 6-8 before I decided to have all mine removed.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Seems to me that most guys who break them do a lot of dry firing. Or maybe just shoot a lot more than the rest of us, being these are the same guys.

[twelve mile REB]

Stuff breaks as Duce said removing the transfer bar just removes a failure point.  To Rugers credit the new transfer bars I have seen have a small radius at the common failure point that was previously a square corner.   

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

Broke 2. One during Landrun.

No dry firing involved.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

4 hours ago, Dead Eye Raith said:

Just curious. Saw that some people do it and wondering why. 

Don't forget. If you remove the transfer bar you must weld up the hammer so it will strike the firing pin. Just removing the transfer bar will result in a gun that will not fire.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

15 minutes ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Don't forget. If you remove the transfer bar you must weld up the hammer so it will strike the firing pin. Just removing the transfer bar will result in a gun that will not fire.

That and add half cock notches.

[Nickel City Dude]

I don't have Rugers but I think I have heard that when you remove the transfer bar you can replace the hammer with one that has the firing pin on the hammer and comes with halfcock notches.  I could be wrong on this, it is only what I remember hearing.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

8 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said:

I don't have Rugers but I think I have heard that when you remove the transfer bar you can replace the hammer with one that has the firing pin on the hammer and comes with halfcock notches.  I could be wrong on this, it is only what I remember hearing.

Don't know where you heard that, but that's not it's done.

[Nickel City Dude]

OK, I stand corrected, thanks for the clarification.

. 

[War Grizzly]

Is it common to just remove the transfer bar and weld the hammer face without shortening or retiming the action? Removing the transfer bar was just a bonus for me when I sort stroked my vaqueros.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

1 hour ago, Nickel City Dude said:

I don't have Rugers but I think I have heard that when you remove the transfer bar you can replace the hammer with one that has the firing pin on the hammer and comes with halfcock notches.  I could be wrong on this, it is only what I remember hearing.

You are probably thinking of a Power Custom half cock hammer. This hammer comes with a half cock notch so you can load a Ruger like a Colt, with the hammer at half cock. The reason I installed mine was it prevented the pain in the butt tendency that 'original model' Rugers had of over rotating slightly at the loading gate so that you had to go all the way around again to load that chamber.

These hammers had the half cock feature. They did not have the so called 'safety cock' notch. So you got three clicks instead of the four clicks of a Colt. And they did not have a firing pin mounted on them. You had to leave the transfer bar in place since the firing pin was still mounted in the frame.

I installed them in three of my 'original model' Vaqueros because I was tired of having to go all the way around again every time I over rotated the cylinder slightly. The ball plunger in the frame of the New Vaquero did away with this problem.

Here is a photo of one of my Vaqueros with the Power Custom hammer set to half cock.

[Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385]

16 hours ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Removes a major point of failure for some shooters. Also allows you to maximize the tuning of the gun. Realiability is the key to this game. There are some that will claim they have never broken them and probably never will. But I broke somewhere around 6-8 before I decided to have all mine removed.

One my friends had one break at a state match, it must of broke on the last round fired from previous stage because on the next stage the gun would not go off so he received 5 misses with a very confused shooter, after stage inspection showed a broken transfer bar, so it can happened at worst possible time as well. I dont think he dry fires either so there you go. 

 

AO

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Look up Transfer Bar Pinch

 

http://www.cylindersmith.com/Transferbar.html

[Jackpot Jerry]

I believe the removal of the transfer bar allows better transfer of energy to the firing pin so light strikes happen less often. 

[Raincrow]

This is very helpful info, since I am still trying to decide on what to buy and either modify or work with. EAA has a transfer bar by license from Ruger so it is unnerving to learn even Ruger has had issues with this. I inherited my Service six from Dad and know between him, other family and I, it has had many hundreds of rounds through it and have never head of transfer bar failure. Since it is my home defense choice I suppose I need to strip the gun again and see if there is any warning cracks. I like the safety aspect of all 6 loaded with no hammer risk to touch it off.

Anyway, it would be appreciated to learn any more experience and expertise info about the transfer bar issue. Thanks in advance.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

13 minutes ago, Raincrow said:

This is very helpful info, since I am still trying to decide on what to buy and either modify or work with. EAA has a transfer bar by license from Ruger so it is unnerving to learn even Ruger has had issues with this. I inherited my Service six from Dad and know between him, other family and I, it has had many hundreds of rounds through it and have never head of transfer bar failure. Since it is my home defense choice I suppose I need to strip the gun again and see if there is any warning cracks. I like the safety aspect of all 6 loaded with no hammer risk to touch it off.

Anyway, it would be appreciated to learn any more experience and expertise info about the transfer bar issue. Thanks in advance.

HUNDREDS?   Remember CAS guns get fired thoussand of rounds per year and many people will dry fire their guns tens of thousands of times per year.  I would not get too terribly concerned about the durability of a Ruger.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I have 2 NM Vaqueros I bought from Long Hunter around 10 years ago (maybe even longer). They are tuned and have low hammers. I shoot all BP and have never had a problem. Guess I'll just keep shooting them with the transfer bars, no reason to change them.l

[Widder, SASS #59054]

On March 12, 2017 at 5:31 PM, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Removes a major point of failure for some shooters. Also allows you to maximize the tuning of the gun. Realiability is the key to this game. There are some that will claim they have never broken them and probably never will. But I broke somewhere around 6-8 before I decided to have all mine removed.

My feelings also.

I've had 2 break on me before I had them removed from my Vaqueros.  One broke from each pistol during dryer practice.

..........Widder

 

[Raincrow]

30 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

HUNDREDS?   Remember CAS guns get fired thoussand of rounds per year and many people will dry fire their guns tens of thousands of times per year.  I would not get too terribly concerned about the durability of a Ruger.

Understood, I know I have put a "few" (read single digit) thousand through it, and likely Dad did, too. It even had been neglected and nearly forgotten a couple times and yet only needed a little cleaning up and care. It is one reason I am taking folks words to heart (on another topic I asked about, EAA) about saving and waiting a little longer to get the pistols that could last me the rest of my life and pass on to the family after.

Appreciate your feedback, thanks.

[Warden Callaway]

Besides breaking,  the transfer bar can bind up the action if the stupid plunger in the stupid base pin does not push against it - like when the base pin slips forward.  I had this happen a couple of times before I installed stronger  base pin latch springs.  An old Ruger shooter clued me in on this problem. 

[Dead Eye Raith]

Ok, I tested them and they do pinch. How do I weld up the hammer face? I'm a decent welder and what else is needed to remove the transfer bars?

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Welding up the bottom of the hammers and cutting half cock notches in them.

[Dead Eye Raith]

Just now, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Welding up the bottom of the hammers and cutting half cock notches in them.

Do you have to put half cock notches in them? What does that accomplish?

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Simply put, the half cock notch holds the hammer back and lets the firing pin retract so that you can rotate the cylinder when it has cartridges in it. Otherwise. the firing pin will block the cylinder from rotating.

[twelve mile REB]

Boggus that is not always the case.  A Ruger has a rebounding firing pin the reason for the spring around the firing pin several Blackhawks that I have owned and removed the transfer bar still loaded normally.  That doesn't mean that it can not happen just that a half dozen I have owned or used did not have that problem.  However, the NEED to only load five and rest the hammer on an empty seems very prudent under those circumstances.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Quote

Simply put, the half cock notch holds the hammer back and lets the firing pin retract so that you can rotate the cylinder when it has cartridges in it. Otherwise. the firing pin will block the cylinder from rotating.

Not quite. For the cylinder of any revolver to rotate, the bolt must be withdrawn down into the frame. Colt, Ruger, S&W, you name it. With a traditional lockwork such as in a Colt Single Action Army, cocking the hammer pulls the bolt down so the cylinder can rotate. That is the important thing, the bolt must be retracted into the frame for the cylinder to rotate for loading and unloading.

When the hammer is pulled back to the half cock notch, the bolt is withdrawn into the frame so the cylinder can be rotated freely, for loading and unloading. The half cock notch merely keeps the hammer in that position, and the position of the hammer keeps the bolt down. When the hammer is pulled all the way back to full cock, the bolt pops up again and pops into the locking slots on the cylinder, locking the cylinder in battery so the gun can fire. With a modern transfer bar equipped Ruger, the hammer does the same thing, pulling the bolt down, allowing the cylinder to rotate and as the hammer gets close to full cock the bolt pops up again, locking the cylinder in place so the gun can fire. So far, there is no difference between the operation of the Colt and the New Model Ruger. The internal parts are different, but the results are the same.

The difference comes in the relationship between the loading gate and the bolt on a Ruger. With a modern Ruger, opening up the loading gate also retracts the bolt into the frame, allowing the cylinder to rotate for loading and unloading. Since there is no half cock notch on the Ruger hammer, the only way to load it is to open the loading gate, which in turn retracts the bolt. If one were to remove the transfer bar from a modern Ruger, and weld up the hammer so it could strike the firing pin directly, the function of opening the loading gate to pull down the bolt so the cylinder can spin would remain. One could still load by opening the loading gate to free the cylinder to spin. My Ruger, with the Power Custom hammer,  pictured above maintains this feature. I can either set it to half cock to load, or I can load it the way it was designed by opening the loading gate. What a half cock notch does is keep the hammer back far enough that the bolt remains retracted into the frame, so the cylinder can rotate for loading. Yes, allowing the firing pin to withdraw allows the cylinder to rotate if there are rounds in the gun, but if the cylinder is empty, it can rotate no matter what the position of the firing pin is. 

 

 

Regarding welding up the hammer and cutting a half cock notch your self, easier said than done. Welding up the hammer would be fairly easy, you can always grind down the weld if there is too much. Cutting a half cock notch is a different story. One would have to be very familiar with exactly where to cut the notch, how deep to cut it, and at what angle to cut it so the hammer would remain back far enough to keep the bolt retracted. Smiths who specialize in this have studied the action of the revolver and know exactly where and how much to cut. In addition, they usually have fixtures made up so they can make the same cut in the same place on hammers over and over again.

Here is a stock Ruger hammer. The little semicircular cut at the bottom is the full cock notch. A half cock notch would need to be cut up near the base of the spring plunger. If you want to try cutting a half cock notch, you better buy several hammers to practice on until you get it right. Once you get it right, you can go ahead and do the easy part, welding up the hammer.

 

[Warden Callaway]

One thing about Rugers,  they have made it possible for a whole cottage industry to modify and repair them.

[Dead Eye Raith]

Thanks guys!

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Power Custom half-cock hammer and trigger kits can be purchased and appear to be drop in parts if you purchase the entire kit. It appears from the look of the hammer that the transfer bar remains in place.

 

Does this kit solve the infamous "Ruger-go-round" that occurs when the shooter's thumb slips of the hammer before it's fully cocked? Or is further 'smithing required to achieve that?

[McCandless]

52 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Power Custom half-cock hammer and trigger kits can be purchased and appear to be drop in parts if you purchase the entire kit. It appears from the look of the hammer that the transfer bar remains in place.

 

Does this kit solve the infamous "Ruger-go-round" that occurs when the shooter's thumb slips of the hammer before it's fully cocked? Or is further 'smithing required to achieve that?

The Power Custom kits with the half-cock hammer will cure the "Ruger-Go Round", they are drop in.  If you want the free spin pawl, there is some some minor modification to the transfer bar which is covered in the directions.

[McCandless]

Dead Eye Raith... White Court?

 

[Dead Eye Raith]

15 minutes ago, McCandless said:

Dead Eye Raith... White Court?

 

What are you referring to?

[Marauder SASS #13056]

20 hours ago, Dead Eye Raith said:

Ok, I tested them and they do pinch. How do I weld up the hammer face? I'm a decent welder and what else is needed to remove the transfer bars?

 

You do not need to weld the hammer.  Instead you can take a little metal off of the hammer where the transfer bar rides when it is not activated.  That is the slow below where the hammer actually hist the transfer bar when the trigger is held back.  There is a lot of metal there and you normally need to take of just a few thousands.

 

Look at Driftwood's post #18 to see the hammer.  It is not the top part of the hammer, but the next notch down.

[Procedural Pete]

Marauder, by filing the hammer are you referring to a cure for transfer bar pinch or allowing the removal of the transfer by filing the hammer rather than welding up the hammer?