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Winter Range Brass


Jackaroo, # 29989

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Did some analysis of this exercise to see how much money the Scouts can make one way or the other.:D

First lets look at the present arrangement

We had 750 shooters for cowboy and 130 for WB  round figures.

So WB had approx 75 rounds of rifle and 230 rounds of pistol,...that's 305 rounds of brass per shooter on the ground. ......305 x 130 = 39650

Cowboy we had 120 rifle, pistol we kept.  120 x 750 = 90000

Total Approx 129650 

Then we still had warm up and speed side matches etc. lets call it 150000 rounds of brass on the ground. The Scouts collected, and bagged in bags of approx 200 rounds/bag at a selling price of an average of $18.00/bag.

So 150000/200 = 750 bags x $18.00 = $13500.00

Next lets look at if the Scouts picked it up on the day and returned it to the shooter and each shooter gave a tip of say an average of $8.00 

I think most cowboys would give $10.00 a day, but if some only gave $5.00 then we have the average,...so now 750 shooters x $8.00 x 3 days for cowboy = $18000.00

Then WB shooters 130 x $8.00 x 3 days = $3120.00......Grand Total $21320.00?????:o

Don't know what others hooters think, but I'd prefer my own brass back, cause what you buy back a lot of it is throw away, I found.

Anyway, this may have been just a fruitless exercise cause (I don't have much to do at the moment):D and because it's ain't School Holidays then.:lol::lol: 

Any thoughts out there, .....have a good weekend.:wub:

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For the last couple of years I purchased brass from the Scouts, but ending up tossing probably around 10%,  maybe a bit more,  a fair amount had been stepped on and crushed beyond re-use, and the black powder residue corroded  more.    At ( If I recall right ) $15.00 per approximately 200 pieces, I passed on it this year.  Probably will continue to pass, I'd  MUCH rather tip for my own brass as I did at EOT a couple of years ago. 

Don't expect we will ever see that at WR due to the lay our of the shooting venues, much of the brass falls in front of the line or under the props.  WR is such a great shoot  and those props are a big part of that experience.  I just use my older brass and be sure to look it over and drop  each cartridge in a revolver cylinder (out of the gun!) to size check it prior to loading my plastic ammo boxes.

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Jackaroo - 

Your math matches up with ours fairly closely when doing brass pickup for EOT Wild Bunch match -  our Scouts enjoy it more and make more money with less work just shagging brass as it is shot in the Wild Bunch match, and relying on tips from the WB shooters, than trying to sort it, bag it, and peddle it back to shooters.  Yes, they have to pay attention and work during shooting hours.  Yes, they are depending on the goodness of the shooters to tip appropriately.  But the shooters get their own brass back, by and large, and almost all of it. Even their shotshells.    

Our Scouts are happy, we hope the shooters are happy, and we don't think it slows down the match.  If it fails to meet pards needs, let me know (send me a PM), as those Scouts come from the Scout Troop I help lead!    

And the situation in the Cowboy match, where local 4-H kids are shagging brass, is pretty similar (but not my direct concern).

Average tip per shooter-day is lower than you show, but then, the one time when we bagged and sold brass, our sales totals per shooter were lower than you show, too.

And as you noted, EOT is in the summer and kids can come work while shooters are on-the-line.  WR - kids not available until after the school day is over.

Good luck, GJ

 

 

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For years Bordertown was a lost brass match.  But things can and do change.  The bottom line is that it doesn't take any more time for a couple of "pickers" to pick up brass & hulls than it does to sweep it to the side.  And you apply common sense: no 2 minute search for that 10th cartridge, if brass goes forward (think Marlin or 97) then the owners can pick it up at the end of the stage while the targets are being painted.  If the posse works at it you can get your brass back.  And with 20 to 30 shooters on the posse, there shouldn't be any overworked people.

Have a great weekend,

Barry Sloe

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One thing to consider aside from cost etc. Time. When you are trying to get 800 shooters through the stages in a day, time becomes critical and when you begin adding a couple minutes here and there the end of the day gets extended too long. Shooting till 5:30 w/o picking brass this year was happening.

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Old argument.  WR runs as many shooters as they can through their match stages while staying on schedule.  The altenative would be to cut back say a couple shooters per posse to allow brass to be picked and not run late.  Is your damn brass that precious that you want to reduce the number of shooters that can attend the best cowboy match in the world?  If you do not want to lose your brass then let someone else attend in your place.

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5 minutes ago, Gold Canyon Kid #43974 said:

Old argument.  WR runs as many shooters as they can through their match stages while staying on schedule.  The altenative would be to cut back say a couple shooters per posse to allow brass to be picked and not run late.  Is your damn brass that precious that you want to reduce the number of shooters that can attend the best cowboy match in the world?  If you do not want to lose your brass then let someone else attend in your place.

+1

 

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Shooting in a lost brass match requires some adaptations for me. I shoot all brass shotgun shells in my sxs and I really don't want to lose any of those, so I use plastic hulls for the match. Unless you walk away from your pistol brass at the unloading table (I don't because I shoot Cowboy Specials in my pistols), you don't have to lose those as they never hit the ground. So that leaves your rifle brass. I usually use older brass for my rifle stuff as I know I won't get it back.

 

No big deal.....

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The cost of replacing the brass lost in 12 stages of shooting is approximately $20.00 for most shooters.

In the scheme of things...... Seems awfully small amount.

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

Shooting in a lost brass match requires some adaptations for me. I shoot all brass shotgun shells in my sxs and I really don't want to lose any of those, so I use plastic hulls for the match. Unless you walk away from your pistol brass at the unloading table (I don't because I shoot Cowboy Specials in my pistols), you don't have to lose those as they never hit the ground. So that leaves your rifle brass. I usually use older brass for my rifle stuff as I know I won't get it back.

 

No big deal.....

I shot all brass Shotgun shells at WR, for many Years. I always got them back. Brass Shot gun shells are not a lost brass item. I also got them back at the Arizona State match at Bordertown.

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I wish the Boy Scouts got that kind of cash but it isn't even close as a LOT of the brass goes unsold.  Especially the 38 spl.  

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Quote

I shoot all brass shotgun shells in my sxs and I really don't want to lose any of those

You NEVER have to, unless you knock your empties out forward of the firing line.  Even then, folks will go out of their way to retrieve brass shot shells, as they KNOW and understand they are very precious.  All matches I have seen ALWAYS try to get brass shotshells back to the shooter!

Don't shoot plastic hulls at WR unless you really want to.

Good luck, GJ

 

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27 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

You NEVER have to, unless you knock your empties out forward of the firing line.  Even then, folks will go out of their way to retrieve brass shot shells, as they KNOW and understand they are very precious.  All matches I have seen ALWAYS try to get brass shotshells back to the shooter!

Don't shoot plastic hulls at WR unless you really want to.

Good luck, GJ

 

Brass shotgun shells have always been the exception to the "lost brass" rule.

GJ is on the money.

(fine print, always ask the match director or powers that but it used to always be announced at the shooters meetings, just to let the everyone know that the pards with the cool all brass shells would be needing them back & to please help them out.)

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Just a thought but if alot of the brass goes unsold then maybe try a lower price.  Simple economics.  If as people say they get alot of unuseable brass then they aren't going to buy it if you havent factored that into the price.   Sounds like there might be more people using older brass than you would normally see in a big match due to the fact it is a lost brass match.  Another thing is that those that have to fly back would probably have to ship this brass back so when they factor in the price, amount of lost brass & shipping it is cheaper to buy new from Starline.   Although it is a fund raiser for the scouts I've heard people say they would rather support their local scouts because they know them.  Not trying to start an arguement over this, just throwing out some feedback I've heard so that maybe you can sell more brass.

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I purchase some of the brass from the boy scouts. I replaces what my wife and I leave on the ground and then some.

The stepped on 40-44 brass can usually be straighten out with a needle nose pliers.

When it costs you between $3000.00 and $4000.00 to travel , stay and compete in the match a 120 to 160 pieces of brass per each person is a small cost.

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the first couple of years I bought from the scouts......I was discouraged.  I think 50% was not very good at all.  Most appeared to be used blackpowder brass.  I would prefer to have the scouts shag brass and tip them,  even if I only get 50% back.

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I'll give the Scouts a donation but I will not buy the brass! Too many people use their junk brass for major "lost brass" matches that what you buy isn't worth having. What I am really starting to get upset over is the lost bullet, the lost powder, the lost primers and the lost shot I never get back! I mean, that stuff is practically like gold, these days!

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Looking from a different angle, the scouting program is meant to build boys into men of good character through service and dedication.  Service projects like this are only one of many things that they do.  Sometimes it is fund raising, sometimes just service.  

I just found out that this year that the scout and girls camp fees vary from $250 to $400.  We have a family in our church with 3 kids in the programs.  That means about $1000 for camp programs this year for one family.  Most of us can afford a couple of bucks.  I agree that the brass is pretty beat up.  The last loss brass match we shot was Bordertown a couple of years ago.  I passed on buying the brass, but stopped by the scout booth to donate $20, and say "Thanks" just for being there to help out.

Pay it forward guys, this is the next generation of Cowboys.

Conejo.  

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