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vaquero 44-40


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12 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Howdy

I remember doing the math when this subject first came up a long time ago. With the larger diameter rim of the 44-40, you cannot guarantee that 44-40 rims will seat without interfering with each other in a cylinder the size of the New Vaquero. If the rims are on the smaller end of the tolerance spread for 44-40 rims, then they will drop in. But if they are on the high end, they will bump into each other.

Here is the SAMMI drawing for the 44-40 cartridge and chamber. Rim diameter is specified as .525 - .010. That means the maximum allowable diameter of the rim is .525 and the minimum allowable rim diameter is .515. I always use Starline 44-40 brass these days and rim diameters usually run right in the middle, around .519-.520. If the chambers are a little bit sloppy, 44-40 rounds with .520 diameter rims will probably seat OK and not interfere with each other. But if the chambers are tight, and rim diameters are at the max, there will be interference.

4440wcf.jpg

 

I tend to doubt Ruger will chamber a cylinder for a cartridge if the tolerance study shows there may be a problem with cartridges seating fully. I may be wrong. But when I was in the manufacturing world the first thing we did before we cut any metal was a tolerance study to see what was possible.

Regarding throwing 44-40 rounds into 45 Colt chambers, of course it will work, because the 44-40 rounds slop around in the chambers.

Regarding why New Vaqueros have a base circle diameter that causes this problem and Colts do not, that is simply the way they were designed.

 

 

 

Doesn't 45 Schofield have the same rim diameter?  I shoot Schofields out of my SASS Vaqueros, they are the new model.

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Howdy Again

There are no official SAAMI (Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute) standards for 45 Schofield. Until it was recently revived by CAS it was an obsolete cartridge and ammunition was no longer manufactured. So SAAMI never set standards for it.

45 Schofield rims are often quoted as being .520 in diameter. A quick random sample of some Starline 45 Schofield brass shows them to be running around .518 - .519 in diameter. So that is .005 or .006 smaller than the maximum allowable rim diameter for 44-40. Couple that with a little bit of slop in the chambers and you will not get interference between the rims of 45 Schofield brass in a New Vaquero chambered for 45 Colt.

Again, a tolerance study looks at the maximum and minimum cases. A tolerance study on the largest allowable rim diameter for a 44-40 rim coupled with the smallest allowable chamber diameter, coupled with the positional information on the location of the chambers with respect to each other would show the rims can interfere with each other. You are able to plop six 45 Schofield rounds into your New Vaquero because you are not at the extreme of the tolerances. You are taking advantage of a little bit of slop. A manufacturer following good manufacturing practices will study the maximum and minimum situations and determine if there is a risk of consumers not being able to use the product as intended. I'll bet you Ruger does not state anywhere in your manual that you can shoot 45 Schofield in your 45 Colt New Vaquero.

It might interest you to know that I have a couple of Stainless 'original model' Vaqueros chambered for 45 Colt. One of them would not accept 45 Schofield cases in one chamber until I took a file to the extractor star drum and cut a little bit of clearance. This is a separate issue than what we have been discussing. As you can see in this photo, the extractor star of a Ruger is cut from a simple cylinder that I am calling a Drum. The extractors of a Colt, or clone have a scalloped relief in them that provides more clearance around a rim. The cylinder on the left is an 'original model' Vaquero cylinder, the cylinder on the right is a 2nd Gen Colt cylinder. Manufacturing tolerances being what they are, there was one chamber in the cylinder on the left that did not have quite enough space between it and a 45 Schofield rim to allow a cartridge to seat. About ten minutes of careful filing solved that problem, but straight from the factory there was a problem. Manufacturing tolerances being what they are, there was no problem with my other Stainless 45 Colt 'original model' Vaquero and 45 Schofield cartridges.

 

45%20Colt%20and%2045%20Schofield%20in%20

 

 

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Interesting discussion here. I am learning a lot about Rugers. Thanks all.

Since we appear to be ordering guns that will not exist, I''d like to order mine with a half cock four click Colt style hammer and real color case.

I'm still going to keep my fingers crossed. :P

Some how however, a cattle chasin' rapscallion who answers to the name Major sumthin' er other has got my thinkin' of Bisleys. and not Rugers although them is what I usually shoot. T'would be completing my Ruger fantasy if'n these Ruger shootin' irons could be ordered with "real" Bisley shaped grips and Bisley hammers.

 

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I would take a pair of con. numbered  stainless with 4 5/8" barrels if the price was not out  of  this world.

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