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Null N. Void

Similar but not exactly the same WTC

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Thank you to all that answered the previous WTC. It cleared up some concerns I had when running the timer. Now I have a slightly different one based on the same stage

 

Pistol targets have one dump target and one knockdown. Rifle targets have one dump target and one knockdown.

 

Stage calls for 9 pistol shots on the pistol dump target and then shoot the pistol knockdown. Move to rifle and shoot 9 rifle shots on rifle dump and shoot the rifle knockdown. Shooter starts and shoots the 9 shot dump on the pistol dump target and then, instead of shooting the pistol knockdown, they shoot the rifle knockdown successfully.

 

Here's the change in the way the shooter might shoot it.

 

They then move to the rifle table and shoot the 9 rifle dump successfully and then, because there is no knockdown available, shoot the 10'th shot on the dump target.

 

What's the call? The way I understand it, it should be 2 misses and a procedural. I miss for the knockdown left standing, I miss for not engaging where the rifle knockdown was and a P for shooting the dump target 10 times.

 

What's y'all think!

 

NNV

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One miss

(Pistol shot on rifle target)

 

One "P"

(All rifle shots HIT rifle targets...just out of sequence)

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

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Five second penalty for hitting a rifle target with the revolver. Then a "P" for incorrectly engaging the rifle targets. Total of 15 seconds penalty time. There was no miss with the rifle, shooter engaged the dump target 10 times instead of the 9 times called for by the stage instructions.

 

Pale Wolf beat me to the answer. He sure is quick this morning.

Edited by Tracker Jack Daniels, 58780

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One miss, (pistol on rifle dump), One P, ( incorrect rifle sequence)

 

Blackfoot

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One miss

(Pistol shot on rifle target)

 

One "P"

(All rifle shots HIT rifle targets...just out of sequence)

If when the shooter completed the 9 rifle targets he shot where the knockdown was it would only be a miss for the 10th pistol shot correct? Instead of shooting where it was, a shooter has the option of shooting an alternate target. I would not give them the P based on that thinking. ROII pg. 8

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If when the shooter completed the 9 rifle targets he shot where the knockdown was it would only be a miss for the 10th pistol shot correct? Instead of shooting where it was, a shooter has the option of shooting an alternate target. I would not give them the P based on that thinking. ROII pg. 8

As in the previous "WtC?", it is not "target failure" if the SHOOTER is responsible for the unavailability of the target.

Shooter should not get any time advantage for KDing the target for the 10th shot & simply continuing the dump on the stationary target.

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As in the previous "WtC?", it is not "target failure" if the SHOOTER is responsible for the unavailability of the target.

Shooter should not get any time advantage for KDing the target for the 10th shot & simply continuing the dump on the stationary target.

So shoot where it was would not be an option in this case either? The 10th pistol shot was a miss and caused a P all at once? Not trying to be a PITA, I just don't understand this line of thinking. If shoot where it was IS still an option in this scenario, can you please direct me to the section of the rule. Oils that covers this besides the target failure section? Thanks.

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I see it as a straight Boolean logic sequence... if shooter causes a target to not be available, then shooter doesn't get the full consideration of the "target failure" alternatives...

 

I.e.: in a plate rack scenario... just the opposite of the OP, 5 plates for five shots, then a dump plate for 5 shots... if one of my first five shots causes multiple plates to fall, I would continue to shoot where they "were"... and then with the 2nd pistol shoot the dump for 5 shots. I wouldn't expect to shoot the dump plate for any of the 1st pistol shots.

 

To be a contrarian, let's take a 3 target Nevada sweep for 10 shots... on the 1st pass, target 2 falls to the ground. THAT's a target failure... I then have the option to "shoot where it was", or shoot an alternate target... In the case of the plate rack, the target operated as intentioned... fell when hit with a bullet... not a "target failure".

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I see it as a straight Boolean logic sequence... if shooter causes a target to not be available, then shooter doesn't get the full consideration of the "target failure" alternatives...

 

I.e.: in a plate rack scenario... just the opposite of the OP, 5 plates for five shots, then a dump plate for 5 shots... if one of my first five shots causes multiple plates to fall, I would continue to shoot where they "were"... and then with the 2nd pistol shoot the dump for 5 shots. I wouldn't expect to shoot the dump plate for any of the 1st pistol shots.

 

To be a contrarian, let's take a 3 target Nevada sweep for 10 shots... on the 1st pass, target 2 falls to the ground. THAT's a target failure... I then have the option to "shoot where it was", or shoot an alternate target... In the case of the plate rack, the target operated as intentioned... fell when hit with a bullet... not a "target failure".

Well I can only find "shoot where it was" and "engage an alternate target" in one place in the rule book and they are literally in the same sentence. I would assume that they are either both an option or neither an option.

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Well I can only find "shoot where it was" and "engage an alternate target" in one place in the rule book and they are literally in the same sentence. I would assume that they are either both an option or neither an option.

I'll fall back on experience... I can still hear Hipshot whispering in my ear (sounded like that even tho' I'm sure he was yellin'), "shoot where it was"... when several plates fell on the rack during a match some 29 years ago... :D

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The rule books don't cover every possible scenario that might occur on a stage.

The RO2 reference covers options in case of an actual failure of a target or prop...not necessarily one that is "shooter-assisted".

In event of a situation that is not listed, the most fair and reasonable application is utilized.

The shooter should not benefit from his own error (shooting the wrong KD) by being allowed to quickly dump all ten rifle shots on a single target...

IMO.

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The rule books don't cover every possible scenario that might occur on a stage.

The RO2 reference covers options in case of an actual failure of a target or prop...not necessarily one that is "shooter-assisted".

In event of a situation that is not listed, the most fair and reasonable application is utilized.

The shooter should not benefit from his own error (shooting the wrong KD) by being allowed to quickly dump all ten rifle shots on a single target...

IMO.

Oh look, almost the entire ROIII manual in four simple sentences...

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Null, I would expect 2 misses and a P if I was the shooter.

That tenth pistol round was a miss (failure to engage the pistol target) and a P.

That tenth rifle round was a miss since the shooter did not engage where the KO would have been.

I have seen poor stages where shotgun splatter or rifle/pistol richochettes caused a KO to fall. The shooter is expected to shoot where the tatget should be.

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Thank you PWB for the quick answer. One miss, one P it is!

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Null, I would expect 2 misses and a P if I was the shooter.

That tenth pistol round was a miss (failure to engage the pistol target) and a P.

That tenth rifle round was a miss since the shooter did not engage where the KO would have been.

Last pistol shot MISSED a pistol target.

"A MISS CANNOT CAUSE A PROCEDURAL"

The 10th rifle round HIT the rifle targets "out of order" = "P"...no miss.

REF: RO1 p.25

 

I have seen poor stages where shotgun splatter or rifle/pistol richochettes caused a KO to fall. The shooter is expected to shoot where the tatget should be.

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