Are SASS shoots considered Historical Demonstrations?

[July Smith]

I know this is an odd question, but I am asking because I think it would be cool to add a Bowie knife to my costume. In Texas law, carrying a knife on ones person with more than one sharp edge, or a blade longer than 5.5" is illegal. A true Bowie knife is both double edged and longer than 5.5 inches.. There is an exception to this law. From the Texas Penal Code I have copy and pasted below,

 

"(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony."

 

Would an SASS shoot be considered a historical demonstration? Any Texas members here carry a Bowie knife or knife with a blade longer than 5.5 inches?

[Dantankerous]

It could be considered "more" of a historical demonstration than say, walking down the sidewalk with one on your belt. (Legally speaking from a non attorney.)

 

You'd probably be OK, but then, you might not. I highly doubt a cowboy at a match is gonna call 911 on you for this. It might be that most folks don't even know this part of the law. But there always is that whole Mr. Murphy thing...

 

Might simply consider keeping the blade a tad shorter than the 5.5" to keep this a non issue.

 

You only NEED to consider a knife if you shoot classic cowboy/cowgirl. It ain't mandatory, but you are right, them IS cool. And the knife handle IS a great place to hang your cartridge bag and/or loading strip.

 

I'm sure some Texas shooters will weigh in on this. Could be this has been asked and answered. Could be it is a non issue.

[Dorado]

I didn't have a Bowie knife but I did use my hunting knife that has about a 6" blade for a while. No one said anything so I used it up until I got me a new gun belt that it doesn't fit on. I've worn it in public with toy guns and people were more upset with the toy guns than the knife. The argument can be made that we're doing a historical demonstration. We are often reenacting old movies, some of which are based off of real people and events. Splitting hairs but there you go. Just beware of any Barney Fifes and you should be alright.

[Pat Riot]

Personally, I would call the Attorney General's office in you state. Not that us SASS folks aren't knowledgeable but none of us would be in your shoes or at your side when you are cooling your heels in jail for listening to us. I would contact SASS and see what they consider they're legal description to be, as well.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

No. It a fantasy shooting competition.

[Cat Brules]

I think the term "significant" is meaningful. I can't imagine the police coming to a CAS gathering and writing tickets for Bowie knives or making mass arrests. First, everyone is wearing two revolvers and there's no complaint? Time and place would come into the equation, and a CAS gathering absolutely is an historical event.

 

Edit

It's not up to the police or sheriff to make the call regarding "historical demonstration" and it would be foolish of them to expend resources going down that rabbit hole. 'Course if you're in Travis County, Texas, the Sheriff there is a PC, libtard wacko..... But, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Knarley Bob]

Some times people wear swords at SASS events, I doubt a knife would cause much of a stir................just sayin'

 

Knarley

[Subdeacon Joe]

The SCA fell into that category. People with swords, maces, axes, becs de corbins, knives from pen-knife to chisa katanas, swords from seax to zweihander. pikes, halberds, spontoons, match locks, wheellocks, bows, crossbows, lord knows what else.

Sometimes all on the same person!

One guy, going through TX got pulled over. Officer wanted to go through his car (loaded up with all sorts of odd looking stuff). Didn't blink at seeing all the various ironmongery.

 

BUT...he found three pieces of wood joined together, "HEY! Those are illegal! You got them deadly numchuks!" "No, no! Those are the legs of a camp stool!" Exchange went back and forth a few times. Finally he was able to find the seat to the stool:

 

He had to put it together and sit in the thing to convince the officer.

[Dantankerous]

Knarley Bob's post got me to wondering...

 

Are there Renaissance Fairs in Texas? Have you ever been to one of those and looked at all the medieval style weapons those guys have, carry, reenact with, and sell to the public?

 

Most everything I have ever seen at a Renaissance Festival makes a Bowie knife look like a cub scout folding pocket knife.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Ohio's law is similar and I see guys with big Bowies all the time! If no one says anything then no harm done. We've had cops and cowboy shoots and the cops didn't say anything. I think you're fine.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Knarley Bob's post got me to wondering...

Are there Renaissance Fairs in Texas? Have you ever been to one of those and looked at all the medieval style weapons those guys have, carry, reenact with, and sell to the public?

Most everything I have ever seen at a Renaissance Festival makes a Bowie knife look like a cub scout folding pocket knife.

I'm sure the Renfairs are considered historical demonstrations.

[Sedalia Dave]

At a SASS match I doubt you'll ever have a problem.

 

As a rule of thumb you'll likely never have an issue unless you give an officer cause. If you get arrested then it becomes an additional charge they can tack on.

 

Several of the folks I shoot with wear them with the sheathed knife stuck into the top of their stovepipe boots. We go out and eat after the match and no one has ever batted an eye at the knife.

[Pat Riot]

I find it interesting that this is a law in Texas...Texas? Really? Odd.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Yeah Pat...I will refrain form further comment.

[Cat Brules]

Knarley Bob's post got me to wondering...

Are there Renaissance Fairs in Texas? Have you ever been to one of those and looked at all the medieval style weapons those guys have, carry, reenact with, and sell to the public?

Most everything I have ever seen at a Renaissance Festival makes a Bowie knife look like a cub scout folding pocket knife.

At Renaissance fairs, I'm usually too busy scarfing down those big roasted turkey legs and eyeballing the Queen's and her Ladies' half-exposed bosoms to pay very close attention to the various weapons. :-)

:-) :-) ;-)

[Sedalia Dave]

I find it interesting that this is a law in Texas...Texas? Really? Odd.

Texas like a lot of the post civil war south passed a lot of laws that were intended to be selectively enforced.

 

Fortunately the south has changed for the better. Unfortunately though, we are still stuck with these silly laws.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Mmmmm turkey legs!

[Ace_of_Hearts]

How ironic if it is true.

You cannot carry a Bowie knife in Texas?

[Sedalia Dave]

How ironic if it is true.

You cannot carry a Bowie knife in Texas?

 

Its true

 

TITLE 10. OFFENSES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH, SAFETY, AND MORALS

CHAPTER 46. WEAPONS

46.01

 

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:

[A] knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;

[C] dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;

(D) bowie knife;

(E) sword; or

(F) spear.

46.15 .

(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

The SCA fell into that category. People with swords, maces, axes, becs de corbins, knives from pen-knife to chisa katanas, swords from seax to zweihander. pikes, halberds, spontoons, match locks, wheellocks, bows, crossbows, lord knows what else.

 

Sometimes all on the same person!

 

One guy, going through TX got pulled over. Officer wanted to go through his car (loaded up with all sorts of odd looking stuff). Didn't blink at seeing all the various ironmongery.

 

BUT...he found three pieces of wood joined together, "HEY! Those are illegal! You got them deadly numchuks!" "No, no! Those are the legs of a camp stool!" Exchange went back and forth a few times. Finally he was able to find the seat to the stool:

 

 

He had to put it together and sit in the thing to convince the officer.

 

Mistake as far as I'm concerned.....giving permission to search your car. I am basically pro law enforcement, but you never know. Too easy for someone to "find a small bit of white powder" or such under a seat and your on your way to jail!

[Lost Trail]

This Texas knife law is just goofy.

 

But there is also a law in some town in Texas that it is illegal to shoot bison from the second floor of a hotel. Apparently shooting bison from the first floor is fine.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

46.01

 

(6) "Illegal knife" means a:

[A] knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;

hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;

[C] dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;

(D) bowie knife;

(E) sword; or

(F) spear.

 

You'd think they could have at least capitalized "Bowie..."

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

You'd think they could have at least capitalized "Bowie..."

If they did, then wouldn't that apply only to his knife?

 

There are some strange laws still on the books all over the place. I read about one state where it's illegal to beat your wife on Sunday. I guess it's ok the other days

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

I reckon they'd throw me under the jail for sporting these knives around.

 

 

 

 

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

It seems to me that one could carry a 5.5 blade in a longer SHEATH.

That would give the LOOK of a long Bowie but still be legal.

Just a thought.

Best

CR

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I find it interesting that this is a law in Texas...Texas? Really? Odd.

 

 

Ancient ridiculous law dating back to Reconstruction. We are working on it. We already got the prohibition of switchblades rescinded. Just a matter of time. Constitutional carry of guns will be enacted no question, if not in this legislative session then surely the next.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Mistake as far as I'm concerned.....giving permission to search your car. I am basically pro law enforcement, but you never know. Too easy for someone to "find a small bit of white powder" or such under a seat and your on your way to jail!

Probable cause is needed for a search. He didn't have it. Let him get a K9 to sniff around. He won't find anything.

[Pat Riot]

It amazed me how lax the knife laws are here in Oregon when I moved here. California wasn;t bad either but had some quirky laws about useless items like throwing stars. North Carolina has some restrictions on knife lengths. Funny thing is out of all the knives I own from Bowies to tactical knives I always just carry my Benchmade Mini Griptilian, my mini Swiss Army and my Victorinox multi-tool. All the other knives are just...the "other knives". When I shoot CAS I carry a little 3" fixed blade with a stag handle in case I get a case stuck or need to cut something. My Bowie just adds weight to my belt and is pretty much a useless accessory.

[Boon Doggle]

See a lot of Bowie Knives at SASS matches in Texas. I believe the law refers to carry on public property. (Don't want to offend any Travis County Cupcakes) What you carry on your own, or private property with the owners permission, is a different matter.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

I gave my scariest looking Bowie knife to an unsuspecting pard. Rather he go to jail than me.

[Knarley Bob]

The SCA fell into that category. People with swords, maces, axes, becs de corbins, knives from pen-knife to chisa katanas, swords from seax to zweihander. pikes, halberds, spontoons, match locks, wheellocks, bows, crossbows, lord knows what else.

 

Sometimes all on the same person!

 

One guy, going through TX got pulled over. Officer wanted to go through his car (loaded up with all sorts of odd looking stuff). Didn't blink at seeing all the various ironmongery.

 

BUT...he found three pieces of wood joined together, "HEY! Those are illegal! You got them deadly numchuks!" "No, no! Those are the legs of a camp stool!" Exchange went back and forth a few times. Finally he was able to find the seat to the stool:

 

 

He had to put it together and sit in the thing to convince the officer.

 

 

Ever try to run them deadly nunchucks??? I still have a lump on my noggin'!!!

 

Knarley

[Badlands Beady]

Every cop I've ever talked to, and I've talked to several lately, mentions "totality of circumstances." In other words, context. Whether a SASS event is strictly speaking a historical demonstration or not, an authentic Bowie would be in context. Also, you are plainly not looking to use it in the commission of a crime.

 

OTOH, if you've got it with you, even in the trunk of the car, when you're not at an event, then you're in possession of a prohibited weapon.

[Sedalia Dave]

Every cop I've ever talked to, and I've talked to several lately, mentions "totality of circumstances." In other words, context. Whether a SASS event is strictly speaking a historical demonstration or not, an authentic Bowie would be in context. Also, you are plainly not looking to use it in the commission of a crime.

 

OTOH, if you've got it with you, even in the trunk of the car, when you're not at an event, then you're in possession of a prohibited weapon.

If you read the statutes you will see that transportation to and from such events is legal in Texas

 

 

46.15

. (Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(2) is traveling;

(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

[Utah Bob #35998]

I gave my scariest looking Bowie knife to an unsuspecting pard. Rather he go to jail than me.

Smart move. There are enhanced penalties for "scary looking".

[Mack Hacker, #60477]

No. It a fantasy shooting competition.

 

Then hysterical, not historical