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Pat Riot, SASS #13748

OT: Mossberg Shockwave

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The Mossberg 590 Shockwave is a PGO, "Pistol Grip Only" shotgun.

I wonder why it took them so long to come up with this?

https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

 

It's funny, I have always wanted something like this but as soon as I saw it my right wrist started aching, :huh:

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That IS the "right pistol grip", for a couple of reasons.

 

With a "stick down at the bottom" grip, like this

 

50580-catalog.jpg

 

the recoil goes to your thumb and your wrist. Been there, done that, hurts.

 

With this type grip, the recoil is pushed up your arm. The elbow and shoulder both pivot easily to accept it.

 

Doesn't hurt.

 

Second reason: with a "hang down below" grip you cannot reach the safety, which is on top of the receiver. With this grip the safety is right at your thumb.

 

Third (and best) reason: the gun must be 26" or greater OAL or it needs to be papered. With a "hang down below" grip it would be about 22", requiring AOW paperwork.

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What exactly is the intended purpose of this contraption? To whom is this being marketed and why? Although interesting, this kind of looks like the answer to a question that was never asked.

Edited by Dantankerous

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In the video I saw they were shooting those cut down shells, probably why the woman for Mossberg said the recoil was manageable!

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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What exactly is the intended purpose of this contraption? To whom is this being marketed and why? Although interesting, this kind of looks like the answer to a question that was never asked.

Fun.

 

The intended purpose is fun. It's like buying a Ferrari or a Lotus. Idiotic car, when you think about it, but fun to own.

 

I wanted one of these, ever since I saw El Dorado.

 

 

Mississippi10.jpg

 

Once I got it I found that it was difficult to shoot well and had no legitimate use, but I still like it and am glad I own it.

 

But it's not a hunting gun or a defense gun. It's a toy.

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I found a couple of videos on this. I suppose for a home defense or a close quarter defense in a very compact area this gun might have some merit. The idea has certainly piqued my curiosity. I might have to go find one and check it out in person. The more I think about it, the more unique and fun it's starting to look.

 

:)

 

5 +1 of 12 gauge ain't nuthin to sneer at.

Edited by Dantankerous

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took a shotgun course once and they demonstrated why the pistol grip is not practical. even at close range a miss is likely, verses actually aiming the shotgun with a shoulder stock and hold. having said that there are a lot of people who have not been trained in the use of a shotgun and the accuracy it can achieve that will buy it

Edited by Trigger Mike

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That IS the "right pistol grip", for a couple of reasons.

 

With a "stick down at the bottom" grip, like this

 

50580-catalog.jpg

 

the recoil goes to your thumb and your wrist. Been there, done that, hurts.

 

With this type grip, the recoil is pushed up your arm. The elbow and shoulder both pivot easily to accept it.

 

Doesn't hurt.

 

Second reason: with a "hang down below" grip you cannot reach the safety, which is on top of the receiver. With this grip the safety is right at your thumb.

 

Third (and best) reason: the gun must be 26" or greater OAL or it needs to be papered. With a "hang down below" grip it would be about 22", requiring AOW paperwork.

The main reason I am having trouble with my right wrist is I fired a pistol gripped shotgun once single handed. The gun wasn't lined with my arm. My thumb knuckle took the brunt of the recoil and my wrist where the thumb meets it ached for months. I have injured my wrist many times but I do believe that this stupid immature move on my part is the main reason I have problems with it now.

 

Alpo, I agree 100% with what you said here.

 

What exactly is the intended purpose of this contraption? To whom is this being marketed and why? Although interesting, this kind of looks like the answer to a question that was never asked.

 

Dantankerous, because it's cool...

That and I have always wanted a sawed off shotgun but did not want to break the law or go through the NFA process to get one.

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Because it's cool.

 

No better reason than that.

 

:)

 

The more I've looked this over today the more I like it.

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Without a stock the Shockwave is only a novelty that takes advantage of an unnoticed "loop hole." Apparently it does not meet the BATF's requirements as a shotgun and because it is smooth bore it is not a rifle or pistol, so it falls into a weird catch all "firearm" category. I still do not see how it is not considered a short barreled shotgun, seeing as the barrel is less than 18". I suppose it must have something to do with the fact that they are being manufactured this way.

Edited by July Smith

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It's not an SBS the same reason a Rossi Ranchhand is not an SBR. It did not start out as a shotgun (or rifle) so it's not a shortened shotgun (or rifle).

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ATF says it is neither. It is classified a firearm.

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Mossberg calls it a "Pistol Grip Only" shotgun (PGO). I looked to see if they called it a "pistol" anywhere in their descriptions and articles about the shotgun do not call it a "pistol" either. At least the ones I found didn't.

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Seems these things are popular to the Zombie apocalypse crowd and millennial trench coat Nagant cultists. Whatever floats your boat. You can shorten up your regular shotgun by clamping the butt stock under your arm. Easier to control, and harder for the bad guy to get away from you if they grab the barrel.

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For those who advocate a shotgun for home defense, this is not a bad concept. One reason I don't favor a scattergun or rifle for close in work is the length. Moving around in low light with furniture and doorways and the possibility the bad guy could grab your long gun in close quarters makes a pistol more practical for me.

But this thing is short enough to be used in close quarters and scattery enough to be used by someone who is not a crack shot. I think it has a niche.

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I don't see the mini shells anymore. Does Aguila still offer them?

Yes, they can be found on line.

 

Seems these things are popular to the Zombie apocalypse crowd and millennial trench coat Nagant cultists. Whatever floats your boat. You can shorten up your regular shotgun by clamping the butt stock under your arm. Easier to control, and harder for the bad guy to get away from you if they grab the barrel.

Really? They just announced them at the SHOT Show....

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Looky what I found. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=shockwave+mossberg+500

 

I may just get one of these and see how it works on my Mossberg 500 with the 18" barrel before plunking down $400, or more, for another shotgun. It would be a shame to buy the gun and find out you don't like the way it feels. I have 2 Mossbergs. One is set up exactly like the one the that Alpo has in his post with the photo. If I like the way it feels with a the Shockwave stock maybe I will consider getting the short shotgun later. After all the hubbub dies down. Shotgun Clay has a point. I am sure these will be popular with the "Zombie" and "Tacti-cool" crowds.

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For those who advocate a shotgun for home defense, this is not a bad concept. One reason I don't favor a scattergun or rifle for close in work is the length. Moving around in low light with furniture and doorways and the possibility the bad guy could grab your long gun in close quarters makes a pistol more practical for me.

But this thing is short enough to be used in close quarters and scattery enough to be used by someone who is not a crack shot. I think it has a niche.

I agree 100%, I think I'd like to fondle one and if I like it I'll probably get it just because as someone else said, "It's just cool"!!

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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Really? They just announced them at the SHOT Show....

People have been making these for some time now. If you start with a shotgun that came from the factory with a pistol grip ( I know mossberg does that) you can put the short barrel on it. They just made it a factory offering to make up for that chainsaw contraption. You have to change the pistol grip to the longer one also.

Edited by Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485

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Now, if you wear a long coat, and have an affinity for shotguns and BANKS ....... Handy indeed :ph34r:

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Texas Law Shield gave an opinion that this firearm could be considered a short barreled shotgun in TX, which could result in felony charges.

 

http://blog.uslawshield.com/a-long-discussion-on-short-barreled-shotguns/

Well, it is a shotgun with a short barrel.

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Obviously we need more gun laws.

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People have been making these for some time now. If you start with a shotgun that came from the factory with a pistol grip ( I know mossberg does that) you can put the short barrel on it. They just made it a factory offering to make up for that chainsaw contraption. You have to change the pistol grip to the longer one also.

It's interesting Crooked River Pete. At first I thought that you were incorrect but I did some research and you are right. As long as the entire length is 26" or longer you can have a shorter barrel.

I am still not clear if I could do that with one of my Mossbergs as it came from the factory with a stock and was sold as a "shotgun". This one is a 5 shot with a 18" barrel.

The other Mossberg I have is a Mossberg Persuader. It came from the factory with a pistol grip but has a 7 round magazine. Yeah, that's weird. But I put a regular stock on it. The only reason I bought that one was it was a smokin' deal for $225 for brand new gun.

I need to do a little more research on this.

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If it came with a buttstock, it's a shotgun, and taking the barrel under 18" is NFA.

 

If it came with a pistol grip, it was not a shotgun, and you could shorten it. But if you put a buttstock on it, you turned it into a shotgun, and shortening the barrel would require NFA.

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Okay, I did some more research and in all the "running around" I did on the internet and all the references that I found along with a boatload of ignorance of the rules and the laws I ended up coming full circle back to where I started after I heard about these things. The people at Shockwave really should consider highlighting the links that explain how these things are legal under Federal Regulations. I think I may send them an email telling them that.

 

Anyway, here is a link that has the letters to and from the ATF regarding PGO firearms, NOT Shotguns, that is the official nomenclature for the Mossberg Shockwave.

 

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88 Scroll down to the links for the ATF letters if you are interested.

 

Basically if I wanted to create my own "PGO Firearm" which is a non-NFA and a non- AOW firearm with a shorter than 18" barrel I would need to use the Mossberg Persuader 7 shot 12 gauge "firearm" that I now have. It's basically a Mossberg 590 that was made at the factory and sold with a pistol grip.

 

The Mossberg 500 that started life as a "Shotgun" cannot be legally made into a non-NFA short barreled PGO firearm BUT it is legal to leave the barrel >18" and install a pistol grip or the Shockwave grip.

 

So, after all that I find that many states already have laws on the books that make these guns illegal under state laws. I am not going to go to the trouble of listing them as I really don't care what other states allow. In Oregon the law is vague but does cite that a "shotgun" must have one or more barrels 18" or greater unless it is NFA registered and legal. I could call the Attorney General's office for clarification but I always look at things like this from the perspective of what the average cop would think if I used this as a self defense tool or just out target shooting and he or she came across me there and how a prosecuting attorney could spin it to put my butt in jail and ruin the rest of my life.

 

If I would decide I want one of these I will buy it from a licensed gun dealer here within my state, I will not build it, that way I have the sales documents and I understand that these Mossberg Shockwave firearms come with reference materials and documentation that show that they are legitimate. But even then I will not buy the first one I come across just in case the seller is wrong about their legality.

 

So all that being said I have other things I want, like another Vaquero and some other CAS gear that makes the purchase of a Shockwave a non-starter right now.

 

But they are cool... :P:D:lol:

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If it came with a buttstock, it's a shotgun, and taking the barrel under 18" is NFA.

 

If it came with a pistol grip, it was not a shotgun, and you could shorten it. But if you put a buttstock on it, you turned it into a shotgun, and shortening the barrel would require NFA.

I disagree with your second statement. TC won a court case years ago about contenders, people would take the pistol frame and put the carbine stock and barrel on, BATF said you could not go back to a pistol if you did that. TC sued and won, court ruled the original condition of the gun is all that maters. You can turn a pistol into a rifle and back to a pistol, but if it came from the factory as a rifle it is always a rifle. Uberti used to make a buntline with a detachable stock, with the stock off it's a pistol, on it's a rifle, go back and forth as much as you want.

 

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/607462200

 

That said I'm with Pat Riot, I'd only buy one from the factory.

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I'm aware that TC sued and won, but I think the ruling only applies to TC.

 

Kinda like - MY (hypothetical) Winchester 92 sn 12345, with a 12" barrel is NOT nfa, but that does not mean YOUR 12" 92 also isn't. It has to be on the list.

 

ATF makes up their own rules as they go along.

 

 

And the Uberti has a 16" barrel, so it doesn't matter whether it has a stock or not.

Edited by Alpo

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