July Smith Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 (edited) I've been eyeing the 1860 Richards Type II Conversion revolvers offered through Cimarron. I really love the look of the open tops and my large hands appreciate the longer "army" grip. I am interested in acquiring a pair in 44 special. Are the conversion revolvers in 44cal and smaller calibers the same size as the cap and ball 1860s? I understand the 45colt variants needed to be scaled up slightly in order to make them a six shot revolver, but I am curious if the 44cal and 38cal are the original 1860C&B size or if they too are the larger frame and cylinder size. http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/richards-transition-model-44-special-8-in-barrel.html While we are on the topic of 1860 conversions. Does anyone offer a 6 shot conversion cylinder for a 44cal cap and ball 1860? I understand these would have to be in 44colt and require a heeled bullet, but I think it would still be pretty cool to have a conversion revolver as close as possible to an original Colt conversion. Edited January 31, 2017 by July Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Bill Willson Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 No, Uberti's cartridge guns and percussion guns will not interchange parts. All of their "open top" cartridge revolvers use the a slightly larger frame than the smaller percussion frames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 The 1860 Army's bore diameter generally ranges in the .451-.457 area. The conversions shoot .45 Colt ammo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 Drop in cylinders are .454 so they use 45 ammo. FYI I just bought two 44 special Open Top Uberti 7.5 pistols. Like them very much. BUT! All of the Open Tops are built wrong and need work right out of the box. If you dont have them fixed they will wear them selves out in a year or two. So if your heart is set on them . Like mine was. You need to figure on spending 160.00 to 200.00 per gun. To make them right. If you dont have them worked on , right out of the box New. Most gun smith's wont work on them once they beat the hell out of there selves. Good luck on you decisions. Rooster . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) Drop in cylinders are .454 so they use 45 ammo. FYI I just bought two 44 special Open Top Uberti 7.5 pistols. Like them very much. BUT! All of the Open Tops are built wrong and need work right out of the box. If you dont have them fixed they will wear them selves out in a year or two. So if your heart is set on them . Like mine was. You need to figure on spending 160.00 to 200.00 per gun. To make them right. If you dont have them worked on , right out of the box New. Most gun smith's wont work on them once they beat the hell out of there selves. Good luck on you decisions. Rooster . You may or may not need to do a lot of work on the guns. My four conversions have had nothing but spring kits and no problems through thousands of rounds. The Howell (aka R&D) and Kirst 45 Colt conversion cylinders for the 1860 are 5-shot. The Kirst has safety notches between chambers so you can safely load 5 (including SASS). Not sure about the Howell cylinder. While the Uberti conversions in .44 and .45 are just slightly larger frame and cylinder size than originals or C&B guns, the .38 are about the same as originals. Even the 1860 Richards-Masons and 1860 Type II Richards in .38 spcl. Those models in .38 have the army grip and barrel, but the frame and cylinder are the same as the '51 Richards-Mason (no rebated cylinder). The pictures on the website do not show this. I have a .38 Type II being held for me (until I can get to Fredericksburg during working hours), and I plan to put a Navy grip on it which will turn it into an 1861 conversion. Edited February 1, 2017 by Abilene, SASS # 27489 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) All of the Open Tops are built wrong and need work right out of the box. If you dont have them fixed they will wear them selves out in a year or two. That is disappointing to hear. I have a number of Uberti/Cimarron SAA revolvers and one of their rifles. The Model P revolvers have been flawless out of the box and the rifle simply needed a good cleaning. Who do you recommend for working on open top revolvers and cap&balls? Edited February 1, 2017 by July Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 The 1860 Army's bore diameter generally ranges in the .451-.457 area. The conversions shoot .45 Colt ammo. Correct. The original 44colt used a heeled bullet that was a 45cal diameter and allowed for six shots to fit in the standard diameter 1860 cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) I believe Jed I Knight shoots 38 caliber open tops with black powder. And he shoots them a lot. Not sure if he's ever had any work done to his but it certainly seems like his just keep running and running and running. I personally don't know anyone who shoots open tops regularly but there are some Fellas on The Wire who shoot them exclusively. There have been previous discussions about these guns and they can certainly be made to run very reliably. Yes, it is unfortunate most out-of-the-box will require some fitting and some adjusting but these are not high-dollar Colts nor overbuilt Rugers but even those guns will occasionally need some fine-tuning. Open tops are certainly unique. I own a pair in 44 Colt that I'm going to have gunsmithed later this year as I would like to use these instead of my Rugers as my main match pistols. They shoot pretty good out of the box but I am having the work done to them not to make them faster or smoother but just to make them more reliable so they last longer. It is my impression through much reading and research that all open top revolvers will require some work. You might get a pair that is very well fitted from the factory but consensus seems to be that is doubtful and unlikely. Some of the current and retired gun plumbers on this website and others will state open tops are a great kit gun but still a fantastic platform from which to start. Edited February 1, 2017 by Dantankerous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Bill Willson Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 There is a 3rd and unique manufacturer of conversion cylinders:https://www.facebook.com/cartridgeconversion/ He has worked on several of my conversion revolvers although I do not know much about his Thuer cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 That is disappointing to hear. I have a number of Uberti/Cimarron SAA revolvers and one of their rifles. The Model P revolvers have been flawless out of the box and the rifle simply needed a good cleaning. Who do you recommend for working on open top revolvers and cap&balls? If the guns are New Long Hunter will work on them . 806-342-0000 Or Cap and ball Goons gun works will work on the cap and ball pistols. 678-467-3950 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 I believe Jed I Knight shoots 38 caliber open tops with black powder. And he shoots them a lot. Not sure if he's ever had any work done to his but it certainly seems like his just keep running and running and running. I personally don't know anyone who shoots open tops regularly but there are some Fellas on The Wire who shoot them exclusively. There have been previous discussions about these guns and they can certainly be made to run very reliably. Yes, it is unfortunate most out-of-the-box will require some fitting and some adjusting but these are not high-dollar Colts nor overbuilt Rugers but even those guns will occasionally need some fine-tuning. Open tops are certainly unique. I own a pair in 44 Colt that I'm going to have gunsmithed later this year as I would like to use these instead of my Rugers as my main match pistols. They shoot pretty good out of the box but I am having the work done to them not to make them faster or smoother but just to make them more reliable so they last longer. It is my impression through much reading and research that all open top revolvers will require some work. You might get a pair that is very well fitted from the factory but consensus seems to be that is doubtful and unlikely. Some of the current and retired gun plumbers on this website and others will state open tops are a great kit gun but still a fantastic platform from which to start. I have always been told Im a little blunt with my word. Im kinda straight to the point . Your wording is much more understanding then mine. But thats what I was trying to say . Most all Open Tops will need some kind of work on them. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted February 1, 2017 Author Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) If the guns are New Long Hunter will work on them . 806-342-0000 Or Cap and ball Goons gun works will work on the cap and ball pistols. 678-467-3950 Thank you. I really appreciate the numbers and referrals. Edited February 1, 2017 by July Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 (edited) If the guns are New Long Hunter will work on them . 806-342-0000 Or Cap and ball Goons gun works will work on the cap and ball pistols. 678-467-3950 I bought my open top through Long Hunter with the work done to them. I haven't had a single misfire or any other issue whatsoever since I got it. I shoot it gunfighter along with a Colt in the other hand always with black powder and it's smooth as hell, never binds up, is easy to clean, feels great, points great, and just looks really cool. I could easily go with two, but I like shooting different guns. It makes me feel like I have more guns than I really have haha. Edited February 1, 2017 by Redwood Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I bought my open top through Long Hunter with the work done to them. I haven't had a single misfire or any other issue whatsoever since I got it. I shoot it gunfighter along with a Colt in the other hand always with black powder and it's smooth as hell, never binds up, is easy to clean, feels great, points great, and just looks really cool. I could easily go with two, but I like shooting different guns. It makes me feel like I have more guns than I really have haha. Im glad to hear that . I just sent my two new Open Tops to Long Hunter . Cant wait to shoot them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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