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Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L

Got an ammo situation here (or at least I think it might be the ammo then again might be revolvers)

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Got one that has stumped us:

 

Ammo is .45 Colt loaded to mild SASS loads--all same batch of ammo using 200 gr Lee RNFP bullets

 

Revolvers (all .45 Colt):

 

Uberti open top conversion 1860 (friend’s)

Uberti Bird’s Head (friend’s)

Pair of Cattleman (mine)

so all the guns are Ubertis.

 

The ammo works fine in the Cattleman; no hang ups, no FTF, smooth cocking between shots

 

In the open top and Bird’s Head after the first shot both lock up. We can only get hammer back about half way. Cylinder will not turn. Have to remove the cylinders by pulling base pin.

Things we checked:

Bolt works as it is supposed to.

Revolver operates fine without ammo. Cocks smoothly and no hang up of cylinder.

With one round in chamber will shoot it and cylinder will spin.

 

(Ammo also works fine in Ruger Vaqueros Old Models FWIW) This is my standard pistol load for about last 5 years.

 

What’s has us stumped is ammo works fine in two of four pistols but not all of them

Hard to believe it’s the ammo but then hard to believe it’s a firearm problem, also.

 

Open to the expertise of the experts

 

cheyenne

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you suspect the ammo is causing the problem have you tried other ammo in these pistols and they work fine?

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The loads are too light and the primers are not re-seating under recoil. Up the load a little and the problem should go away.

 

Best regards,

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The loads are too light and the primers are not re-seating under recoil. Up the load a little and the problem should go away.

 

Best regards,

+1

What primers are you using. With Cowboy Fast Draw 45LC cartridges the brand of 209 primers matters in my Ruger NMV's. The NMV's lock-up with Remington 209 primers. Since there is no powder in CFD cartridges it can only be the strength of the primer cup that is the issue. Note: Primer setback is not an issue with CFD pistol lock-up since the 209 primers will fall out with the force of gravity.

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Make sure your primers are all seated below the case head before loading into gun.

X2 on to 'lite' a load could also be a reason. PM me the exact load.

OLG

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As above, I would try to increase powder charge as the cylinder gap varies a bit in revolvers. The gap in the Cattlemen is probably enough so that primers backing out do not bind the cylinder.

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If the load's were too light why would it work single loaded?

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I think Slate has your problem answered. If any load is too light in a revolver, when fired the primers back out a bit and the case will back out upon recoil and reseat the primer, if loaded too light the primer will only be partially reseated, jamming up the gun. If you look at the cylinder once removed from a jammed gun, you will probably find a empty case with the primer backed out. If the round fired in a different gun works, perhaps the the distance from the unfired round primer to the recoil plate is closer................

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you suspect the ammo is causing the problem have you tried other ammo in these pistols and they work fine?

 

All we had at the range today was that ammo. Was for the rifle; didn't know he was bringing his revolvers.

 

I'll increase the amount of powder and report back

 

cr

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Take a set of feeler gauges and measure the distance from the back of the cylinders to the inside face of the actions. You will probably determine that all have a greater distance than the Cattleman.

Light loads = primers that back out and are binding against the inside face of the action

Reload some maximum powder reloads - crimp hard and believe your binding of the cylinders will disappear

Short answer - Can the Wimp Loads!

Edited by John Boy

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also, check the clearance from front of cylinder to the forcing cone,,, may be too tite

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The same situation drove me nuts a few years back,and yup, Mo powder was the answer in my .45's.

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OP-What powder did you use?

Some powders are very temperature sensitive. Your load may work OK in the summer and then become a 'fly-fart' in the cold of winter.

OLG

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The loads are too light and the primers are not re-seating under recoil. Up the load a little and the problem should go away.

 

Best regards,

thats what it sounds like to me the cattlemans are closed frame guns the open tops are not the frame must be flexing and not reseating the primer

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OP-What powder did you use?

Some powders are very temperature sensitive. Your load may work OK in the summer and then become a 'fly-fart' in the cold of winter.

OLG

 

Red Dot

use it in 32s, 9mm, 38s, 45 ACP, 45 Colts and reduced load 45-70s

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had this issue when i tried to go lighter than my light load - i agree with above +1 to a bit more powder

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Red Dot is more temp sensitive than most.

Up your charge 1/2gn.

Look at WW231 and Unique for the '70 & .32's.

OLG

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headed out today to load up some hotter loads; basically take my rifle loads and use the pistol bullet.

 

Match is this weekend so we'll see.

 

Good thing I'm not counting on these two pistols as my main match ones. Ruger OMV have never had a problem with the loads so why change what isn't broken? (at least in those revolvers?)

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Wouldn't be nice to have loads you can shoot summer and winter?

Just up the chg 1/2gn and you'll see...... ;)

OR-load the same for rifle and pistol then you have truly arrived at K.I.S.S. ^_^

OLG

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Red Dot is more temp sensitive than most.

OLG

Huh?? :huh: Never heard or seen that before, and I know alota folks that use Red Dot, and some that load right at min. Red Dot is a clean fast burning powder, not position or temp sensitive. They have to be loading way below min to get it to act like Rangers. I load Red Dot in all my smokeless stuff .38, .45, 44/40, 45acp, 12 ga....never a problem.....but I prefer BP :D Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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I think John Boy has it right, I bet the headspace in that revolver is noticeably less that the others, upping the charge may solve the problem or it may not, I had a tightly headspaced revolver that would only function with certain brass that had a thinner rim.

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headed out today to load up some hotter loads; basically take my rifle loads and use the pistol bullet.

 

Match is this weekend so we'll see.

 

Good thing I'm not counting on these two pistols as my main match ones. Ruger OMV have never had a problem with the loads so why change what isn't broken? (at least in those revolvers?)

Will be very interested to see what happens. My two main match pistols usually never have a problem but January match it was 18 degrees and they were locking up where they would turn if aided by my left hand. I have another Cavalry model that locks up alot and must be taken apart. I have someone reload for me - so I need to check what powder he uses.

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I have someone reload for me - so I need to check what powder he uses.

You NEED to know more than that, about the ammo you're using......... ;)

OLG

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You NEED to know more than that, about the ammo you're using......... ;)

OLG

You are no doubt correct about that. Many other things I need to know as well, but I can only stuff so much info between my ears. It is a well known commercial re-loader, not just some shade tree mechanic.

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Until the load is known. It's all SWAG'n if it's the load that's your issue or your guns are. -_-

I say this with over 50+ years reloading and a 'shade tree mechanic'. ^_^

 

OLG

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