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Marshal Chance Morgun

Invisible "members"?

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2017 - Reply to hidden post.
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2017 - Reply to hidden post.

Quite an ignorant statement to lump an entire state, that probably has the most sass members and clubs, as unamerican and uncowboy.

I took his statement as against CA's extreme left leaning gov't not against any individuals.

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I was a non member a few years ago, I was looking for a gun part on line and kept seeing COWBOY ACTION and SASS approved parts, it got my curiosity up so I Googled it and found this page. I made a post asking what this was and if anyone in central Alabama was a member. The response was immediately overwhelming, thanks to Bar Keep Casey who responded with all of the answers and his friend Buck D Law who arranged for me to borrow some equipment that next Saturday along with the cowboys and cowgirl that loaned me some equipment to come experience what this was all about ( Buck D Law - Rifle, Sugah -Pistols, Waco Jim - Shotgun and Blackjack Lee - Gun Leather ) you are now reading my post as a member OWEN BANKS SASS MEMBER 100585. One Saturday morning of spending time with these friendly and inviting cow folk and I was hooked, they invited me back to shoot all of the different pistols, rifles and shotguns before I went out and bought my own so that I could make the best purchasing choice for me.. Without these ambassadors to the sport and there enthusiasm to share information I would not have had the opportunity to enjoy this amazing sport that my daughter is now interested in. I also would not have had the opportunity to meet so many talented and friendly Cowboys and Cowgirls from around the country. My wife and daughter go with me to the larger matches and bring along there puppies ( Silly, Nemo Jubilee the Great Dane, Owen the Great Dane, and a few others) they always find friendly cowpoke to socialize with even though they don't shoot as of yet. They also enjoy meeting all of the cowpoke and the banquets and lunches. So in closing I say allow non members to post if you want to continue to bring people into this sport that would never have known about it otherwise.

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I think that's the most important statement made in this entire thread.

 

This is the beginning of my sixth year, so I'm a relative newcomer, and I'm 58 years old, so I'm relatively young in the world of SASS. We baby boomers grew up playing "Cowboys and Indians" so this game is right up our alley, but my boys who are in their 30's did not. For them it was Transformers or Power Rangers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and they don't relate to this game at all. I don't have a clue what today's 20 year olds grew up playing.

 

The good folks down in Florida came up with a couple of cool videos to attract a younger crowd, but that alone is not enough. I like to say that one shouldn't complain without offering a solution, but in this case, I come up dry. However, if we don't collectively recognize this and if people brighter than me don't come up with some good ideas, then we as an organization will soon age right out of existence.

You are starting your 6th year with number 97501 and we are just getting into numbers in the 104000's. So, SASS has grown by 6500 shooters in 6 years +/-.

 

Wow, there is obviously some serious issues when it comes to marketing. Back in the early 2000's we were growing by 10-12k per year.

 

Just what happened? I guarantee the NRA numbers have continued to grow, along with guns sales in general. I don't believe that age has much to do with growth. The guys I know work their butt's off putting on matches. I think many of us do our part to support SASS. Just what is SASS doing to advertise on a national level? Has anyone seen an advertisement in a magazine or television? Henry runs an ad during prime time on Fox News. Where are our non-profit dollars going? I see that Misty and others are hosting a booth at the Eastern Sportsman's Show, hopefully we will see numbers of folks that visit the booth and sign up, along with an uptick in participation in that area.

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You are starting your 6th year with number 97501 and we are just getting into numbers in the 104000's. So, SASS has grown by 6500 shooters in 6 years +/-.

 

Wow, there is obviously some serious issues when it comes to marketing. Back in the early 2000's we were growing by 10-12k per year.

 

Just what happened? I guarantee the NRA numbers have continued to grow, along with guns sales in general. I don't believe that age has much to do with growth. The guys I know work their butt's off putting on matches. I think many of us do our part to support SASS. Just what is SASS doing to advertise on a national level? Has anyone seen an advertisement in a magazine or television? Henry runs an ad during prime time on Fox News. Where are our non-profit dollars going? I see that Misty and others are hosting a booth at the Eastern Sportsman's Show, hopefully we will see numbers of folks that visit the booth and sign up, along with an uptick in participation in that area.

The NRA experiences the same problem with renewals. Folks join, then simply don't renew, for a vast variety of reasons. And, in some cases, the very same reasons as folks don't renew with SASS... with the glaring exception that SASS doesn't hound you to donate to their political action causes.

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The NRA doesn't hound me.

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- ditto - that

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The NRA doesn't hound me.

 

They do send me a daily legislative news update which I enjoy. I also get some get some Certified Instructor

news om occasion.

 

I have been a Benefactor Member since 1958 while pistol shooting in the Corps. My formerly active spouse,

my sons and my grandchilden are all Life Members.

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I don't get hounded either, but I read about others that claim they do... and use that as their excuse to not renew... anyone looking for an excuse, will likely find one.

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The NRA doesn't hound me.

Me either

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Been a life member of NRA for over 50 years, upgraded to Endowment Life in 2000. They never bug me about $$$ as I do send them some yearly.

 

I have been a SASS life member for over 10 years. When I started shoot ing 12 or 13 years ago, I knew I would keep shooting SASS so I converted from annual to life when it was $500.00. I have more than paid for it in annual membership dues that I saved.

Edited by Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life

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I've been a contributing member of the NRA since 1962. They send me mail requests for donations at least every month, plus numerous phone calls which I have on call block. I consider it hounding. If I did not agree with their overall goals, they would have been totally dropped by me many years ago. No such issues with SASS.

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With SASS I've just remained a annual renewing member. As far as the NRA, it wouldn't matter to me If I was a life member. With the continuing 2nd amendment battles I would still be occasionally donating. Besides renewing my annual membership through 2026 I send additional and also to the California Rifle and Pistol association. Republican National Comittee and presidential election this last year too. Trying to do my part.

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The NRA use to hound me for donation both by phone and by mail but once I told them to stop calling the phone calls have dropped to a trickle and the mail is only about once a month now. I purchased a life membership about 10 years ago because I believed in the cause but after that I had to buy a bigger mail box.

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I am an NRA Life Member. I do not get any calls, email or mail from them.

 

Its not real dificult guys, log on or call and ask to be put on the "do not promote" list

 

go to this page and read how easy it is. Of course you wouldnt want to send money to the Largest and most effective gun lobby anyway right?

there are many other gun rights orgs, but none of them have the sway the NRA does. Are they perfect? no of course not, but they are going to get more done.

https://membership.nrahq.org/privacy.asp

 

look for the opt out option.

Edited by Home Range

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I am an NRA Life Member. I do not get any calls, email or mail from them.

 

Its not real dificult guys, log on or call and ask to be put on the "do not promote" list

 

go to this page and real how easy it is. Of course you wouldnt want to send money to the Largest and most effective gun lobby anyway right?

there are many other gun rights orgs, but none of them have the sway the NRA does. Are they perfect? no of course not, but they are going to get more done.

https://membership.nrahq.org/privacy.asp

 

look for the opt out option.

 

Exactly. I was an annual NRA member since about 1974 when dad signed us last 3 at home up. Didn't convert to Life until about 10 years ago.

 

I get zero calls and very little mail. My monthly magazine and every couple of months something from NRA-ILA or a raffle.

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I'm an annual member. For me, the issue isn't the price of the dues, but what being a member really provides me?

 

I tell people that you can time me with an egg timer. I'm not competitive. I don't go to state or national shoots.

 

I enjoyed the monthly paper Cowboy Chronicle, but the slick Quarterly publication seems to be nothing more than competition results, dress up contests, and people-out-west (which is the only thing I actually read). I considered the monthly publication most of the cost of my annual dues.

 

I don't have the SASS gunfighter emblem on my car, or my SASS number tattooed on my arm.

 

I shoot with non-SASS clubs. Even the local SASS affiliated clubs allow non-SASS members to shoot. I haven't been out to a shoot in 2 years. One year due to injuries. One year due to renovating a house.

 

The only thing that causes me to renew my membership each year is the fact that SASS maintains the rule book.

 

Like many others in my situation, I hope that SASS finds the "magic formula" that brings in new members. To do that, IMHO, will require SASS to show people why they need to be a member.

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Why stop there? You can freegraze on this forum, and get all the rule updates and info without being a sass member. You hope that sass figures out a way to bring in new members, but the question is what are YOU doing to bring new members? You support non sass clubs, and encourage that, do you think that's helpful? What's in it for me attitude is whats wrong with succeeding at anything. Just stunned, Lunger

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I've been watching this discussion as I have others on this subject. Until now I haven't felt the need to contribute but I guess I will now.

I started shooting(and joined) in 2003. In 2007 , I had to stop due to health and career conflicts. I let my membership lapse at that time. When I was able to I "re-join" , so to speak, in 2013 I called and found I could re-acquire my sass number and alias so I did.

Although I'm hard pressed to quote tangible benefits to my membership, the intangible ones are the ones that matter to me! The people I've had the pleasure to compete and be associated with are one of the highlights of my life. I'm retired now and can travel to some annuals as well as EOT. I have and will continue to cherish the friendships and sense of community! Pm me and I'll be happy to elaborate.

Thank you ALL,

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It was around 14-16 months ago that the buffalo chips hit the fan when the higher annual dues and club fees were announced. If I remember correctly, at that time membership was around 18,500. The Invisible Clubs post got me wondering. What is the current membership?

 

What difference does it make? Do you spend more money than you make? Just askin', friend.

 

Ya see... companies have to make money... in order to survive. But this a quasi-profit makin' company. Their not Wall Street. But they got folks they got to pay... and good'uns,too. And they got General, Sales and Administrative Expenses... and Moon and them folks have got to overcome them monies. They have to make a profit.

 

No ticky... no laundry. You think 'bout that.

 

ts

 

(corrected by family members)

 

You like SASS... make a voluntary contribution to help. I am goin' to.

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Why stop there? You can freegraze on this forum, and get all the rule updates and info without being a sass member. You hope that sass figures out a way to bring in new members, but the question is what are YOU doing to bring new members? You support non sass clubs, and encourage that, do you think that's helpful? What's in it for me attitude is whats wrong with succeeding at anything. Just stunned, Lunger

 

<sarcasm on>

You're actually correct. I SHOULD "freegraze" on the forum. It's out here for all to see, and my annual membership dues don't amount to a hill of beans. In fact, EVERY annual member who doesn't shoot at the state or national level should drop their membership and "freegraze". Allie Mo (who has "liked" your post) apparently even supports that! Great Idea! Lunger, you're a genius! SASS will prosper on the dues paid by the lifetime members and the few hundred annual members who compete at the state and national level. Oops... No, scratch that. As Misty stated, no ongoing revenue from lifetime members means that annual members pay for all of SASS at this point. SASS will close because there will be too little income to continue.

<sarcasm off>

 

Please re-read my earlier post. I did not "encourage" people to frequent non-SASS clubs. I stated that I've shot at a non-SASS club, as well as SASS clubs. The point is that SASS doesn't have a monopoly on CAS, and even SASS clubs don't really care if you're a SASS member, which is a reason why membership in SASS isn't a requirement for MOST shooters.

 

If you look at some of my earlier posts on the loss of the monthly publication, you would have noted that I regularly handed those out to people who I met at the local range (which isn't a cowboy club at all, despite my attempts to get them to be). I give out my quarterly copies now. I've arranged "you shoot mine, I'll shoot yours" groups at the range so that the younger generation with their plastic guns can handle real iron. I'm confident that I've increased the number of cowboy action shooters, if not SASS members. What have you done?

 

Every time you buy something, you make a decision as to whether that purchase is going to achieve a purpose. When you buy a coat, you make a decision whether it's going to fit you, look good on you, and keep you warm. When you buy a phone, you do so for features and functionality you want in a communications device. It's no different with belonging to a club. I support SASS to maintain the rule book. Others support SASS because they can't shoot in state or nationals without being a member. Others support SASS for their own reasons. Without a motivation to purchase, no purchase is made. That is human nature. So, when you say "What's in it for me?", I say no one blindly joins SASS just to because they have an extra $75 in their pocket. They have a reason they join, and that reason is "what is in it for them?".

 

Find the proper value proposition and you'll find more members. In my experience with younger non-CAS shooters, the major problem isn't knowing what SASS is, or how much fun the game is, but the cost of the guns. Until such time as we solve that problem, we're going to continue to lose prospective members to tacticool 3 gun.

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You still say that people only join sass for the"what's in it for them". I'll thank God tonight, that I wasn't raised that way. I won't address the rest of your nonsense. I see from your sass number that you are pretty new to the game. I hope you will continue to be a member, and learn about what sass does for everyone, and not necessarily just yourself. Dr Phil couldn't convince you, and a few others, so I know a farmer like myself can't. Lunger

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 26, 2017 - Insult and nothing else.
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 26, 2017 - Insult and nothing else.

You still say that people only join sass for the"what's in it for them". I'll thank God tonight, that I wasn't raised that way. I won't address the rest of your nonsense. I see from your sass number that you are pretty new to the game. I hope you will continue to be a member, and learn about what sass does for everyone, and not necessarily just yourself. Dr Phil couldn't convince you, and a few others, so I know a farmer like myself can't. Lunger

 

Not to put too fine of a point on the subject BUT........ you asked Judge Bagodonuts what has he done for SASS and he answered you. In the post above he asked you the same question......."What have you done?" Are you planning on answering his question or do you just toss out insults without really engaging in conversation or debate as if you are better than him?

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For starters, I paid the entire sass affiliation fees for a local club that dropped sass recently. I didn't need to spend a nickel because i'm a life member as of a couple yrs ago, but feel I should help out when i'm able. New shooters come to my farm for cas shooting lessons for free, I fix their guns for free, I go to WR every yr and support my friends, and sass in general. Donate to wounded warrior program, that sass took up a collection for. My wife does at least as much, and is there for me. I'd say I have a fairly good reputation. Hoping I can quit there dedeye george, most of my friends in our sport work as hard as I do at it, like sass, and cas is supposed to be. Ask anyone in the northwest if you like, they'll tell you I don't ask what's in it for me. Lunger

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Not to put too fine of a point on the subject BUT........ you asked Judge Bagodonuts what has he done for SASS and he answered you. In the post above he asked you the same question......."What have you done?" Are you planning on answering his question or do you just toss out insults without really engaging in conversation or debate as if you are better than him?

Lunger is a SASS member that is always first to help new shooters with tips on how to improve their game and gear. At annual matches when he is dog tired you'll still see him working on shooters guns (free) helping them to the last minute. He is a advanced shooter that will help new and old shooters alike. He has helped me immensely. He also is not a braggart so I'm surprised this thread has got as much out of him as it did. Paying for a clubs SASS membership dues himself is just another thing he has unselfishly done to promote SASS.

We'er not talking who is the better MAN here but who is the better SASS member to help this sport flourish....I know my pick.

Edited by Runamuck, SASS #49216L
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Why stop there? You can freegraze on this forum, and get all the rule updates and info without being a sass member. You hope that sass figures out a way to bring in new members, but the question is what are YOU doing to bring new members? You support non sass clubs, and encourage that, do you think that's helpful? What's in it for me attitude is whats wrong with succeeding at anything. Just stunned, Lunger

 

 

 

<sarcasm on>

You're actually correct. I SHOULD "freegraze" on the forum. It's out here for all to see, and my annual membership dues don't amount to a hill of beans. In fact, EVERY annual member who doesn't shoot at the state or national level should drop their membership and "freegraze". Allie Mo (who has "liked" your post) apparently even supports that! Great Idea! Lunger, you're a genius! SASS will prosper on the dues paid by the lifetime members and the few hundred annual members who compete at the state and national level. Oops... No, scratch that. As Misty stated, no ongoing revenue from lifetime members means that annual members pay for all of SASS at this point. SASS will close because there will be too little income to continue.

<sarcasm off>

...

 

Judge,

 

I liked the part of Lunger's post that I have emphasized in bold red in the post I quoted.

 

I guess you could say "I ride for the brand," try to do my share to promote the sport, and spend more time than most trying to keep this forum civil. I have even continued to pay my husband's dues when he hasn't shot since 2005 and never will again due to health issues.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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For starters, I paid the entire sass affiliation fees for a local club that dropped sass recently. I didn't need to spend a nickel because i'm a life member as of a couple yrs ago, but feel I should help out when i'm able. New shooters come to my farm for cas shooting lessons for free, I fix their guns for free, I go to WR every yr and support my friends, and sass in general. Donate to wounded warrior program, that sass took up a collection for. My wife does at least as much, and is there for me. I'd say I have a fairly good reputation. Hoping I can quit there dedeye george, most of my friends in our sport work as hard as I do at it, like sass, and cas is supposed to be. Ask anyone in the northwest if you like, they'll tell you I don't ask what's in it for me. Lunger

 

Not just in the Northwest. I have shot with Lunger and Tillie since the first time he came to Winter Range. Superior shooters both of them and free with whatever you need to play this game, ammo, guns, instruction or great conversation about anything you would like to talk about. This year he even volunteered to bring a 4 wheeler to WR to help out with long range. Don't know how that all played out but the offer was made in the interest of making a great match even better. Proud of him

 

Regards

 

:FlagAm::FlagAm::FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

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As I said in a previous post, SASS needs to make members "want" to join and pay their annual dues not "have" to pay them. Part of that process is our job as senior members. SASS needs to step up advertising and marketing, it's virtually nonexistent and has been for several years. Now the printed Chronicle is quarterly, there are fees for shooting state level and higher matches, club affiliation fees, and annual dues have increased. Just what is being done with the additional fees, these fees did not exist 10-15 years back when we had more members. Personally, I think folks would be okay with them if we saw an influx of new shooters. Why isn't SASS advertising like they use to? They use to have ads in all the gun magazines and NRA magazines. Perhaps, a nationwide membership drive or some discounts if current members can sponsor a new shooter. Throw out enough ideas and eventually something will stick. However, it's up to SASS HQ to lead the way. If the numbers continue to plummet annual dues will increase and the burden will be on all of us "die hard" cowboys. Seems like the lower the membership the higher the dues.

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Lunger is a SASS member that is always first to help new shooters with tips on how to improve their game and gear. At annual matches when he is dog tired you'll still see him working on shooters guns (free) helping them to the last minute. He is a advanced shooter that will help new and old shooters alike. He has helped me immensely. He also is not a braggart so I'm surprised this thread has got as much out of him as it did. Paying for a clubs SASS membership dues himself is just another thing he has unselfishly done to promote SASS.

We'er not talking who is the better MAN here but who is the better SASS member to help this sport flourish....I know my pick.

I have also shot with lunger and his wife. Runamuck said it better than I could. +1 for Bullett 19707

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Lunger is one of the good guys.He and Tillie re excellent shots and, in my experience, are the rare kind of people

it would be nice to have more of as members. However, the word rare fits and it is too much to expect that many

members would fit his category.

 

It would be wonderful if we could find a plan to attract more members. Personally.I would like to start with an

affordable Life Member payment plan. I would start with keeping the members we already have!! :-)

 

By the way, I do not always agree with Lunger!!!

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What's in it for me?? One shouldn't even dignify that with an answer..........

Just about every weekend is spent at the range working. Numerous articles donated to the range. Hauling computers and coffee, cookies flatware napkins along with tools, carts, building material.

Donating prizes, lending out gear. Buying equipment to be used at the range, not to mention the money donated,and or loaned to get the club moving. What's in it for me???

 

An orginazation that is always standing at the gate with their hand out for money.

They want yearly dues from the members, they want yearly dues from the club, they want dues for every shoot, they want their chunk when we put on a State Shoot.

 

They told our club that we ARE going to host the state shoot, or they would send people to do it.They send EXPIRED gift cards as prizes, have not bought one nail, nor driven one.

 

What's in it for me? Oh................. just more dues to pay...........

Get a grip.

 

There must come a time when enough is enough.......................

 

Knarley

Edited by Knarley Bob

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Are there SASS clubs that do not allow non SASS members to shoot? Never seen it, but what I read in this thread makes me wonder.. I know several SASS clubs that give discounts for club membership, range membership, NRA membership, etc. Some clubs have to pay a fee for every shooter to the range, except for those members that are members of the range club. Some have to pay a fee to the range for every single shooter.

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Clearly, not a single one of you has understood what I had posted when I asked for a value proposition for why someone who doesn't shoot at a state or national level should join the organization? You're all hyped up on "What's in it for me?", which is a MIS-QUOTE from Lunger. The actual quote was "what being a member really provides me?". There's a huge difference between the two. My question is the one that SASS needs to address to get new members. Lunger's question is, well, just insulting.

 

Why should someone join the organization is the key issue here. If you're competitive, you have an answer: to go to the state and national competitions. If you're not competitive, what is your motivation for joining and renewing your membership? My value proposition is that SASS maintains the rule book. I use that to justify spending my money on SASS. Others value Cowboy Chronicle, and use that as their justification. "Ride the Brand" is, like the others, a valid justification. You're saying you want to be part of something. The key question is what value proposition appeals to new shooters? Is there one value proposition that can be identified which can be used to market SASS?

 

Whenever someone makes a purchase, they want to know what they get for that purchase. When you send money to the NRA ILA, you know that money will be spent on promoting the 2nd amendment, and can feel good about yourself for giving them money. When you donate to the local fire department's campaign to buy a new pumper, you know you're supporting a worthy bunch of volunteers who will use that pumper to put out neighborhood fires. When you buy a turkey for Thanksgiving for the local shelter, you feel good about supporting your fellow man who may be down on his luck. When you buy a turkey for your own Thanksgiving dinner, you get to eat that turkey. This is the heart of "what a purchase provides me".

 

If you still don't understand the difference between Lunger's "What's in it for me?" and "what being a member really provides me?", I feel sorry that I can't explain it to you better. There is a HUGE difference rooted in customer psychology marketing. The point of my original post was to trigger a discussion on what marketing methods would be successful in bringing new members to SASS, not to invite a "pile on" about whether someone feels like they should get something for free.

 

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Hello Judge,

 

I'm sorry, I don't see much difference in the following. "If you still don't understand the difference between Lunger's "What's in it for me?" and "what being a member really provides me?", I feel sorry that I can't explain it to you better." One just sounds nicer.

 

I do agree that SASS could benefit from more marketing.

 

I think it might be valuable to hear why new members joined.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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You, and a few others are trying to come up with marketing methods, ect for someone ELSE to do. You figure sass needs to fix this, withno real eeffort on your part. New members start at individual club level, word of mouth, getting a spectator to try a stage at the end of a shoot. Many times a spectator knows a family member or friend who would be a likely prospect. None of us would even know eachother if it weren't for sass. The clubs in my area that had opinions like yours all laid down and failed. Their poor attitude and behavior drove folks off, and then withered away from there. The other clubs have a different story, and outcome. I'm not here to dance around the problem when its plain to see and fixable. I noticed the guys that are so vocal, and worried about membership do little to help it. Seen it first hand in my area. Lunger

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