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Marshal Chance Morgun

Invisible "members"?

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It was around 14-16 months ago that the buffalo chips hit the fan when the higher annual dues and club fees were announced. If I remember correctly, at that time membership was around 18,500. The Invisible Clubs post got me wondering. What is the current membership?

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Howdy,

 

When first joining SASS the individual membership cost is $75 and then the yearly renewal is $65. Spouse is $60 with a renewal of $55 and Junior (18 & under) $25 with renewal of $5. This info may be found on the SASS Homepage under Membership.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

 

PS No offense, but I think posting on the Forum should be a privilege of membership, viewing of course would free.

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My sons and I are Life Members. Most 480rounds of .45 Coly of my longer time pals are also Life

Members. My buddies and I are definitely NOT THE FUTURE!!!

 

I shoot a minimum of 360 rounds of.45ACP each month and 480 .45 Colt plus 80 ten gauge shells. As you

all know, practice and away matches add multiples of those cartridges and shells not to mention Long

range buffalo .50-140 Sharps, .38-55 Winchester, .42 Long Colt and .44 Magnum. Like most of you,I shoot

a ton of .22 in bullseye, gopher killing and SASS side matches. Powder, wads, lead, tin, primers, shot,

etc. are essential. Further, gasoline, oil, wipers, tires, food, solvents, patches, ad nauseum go into

the mix. The above sure blows the socks off of my retirement income.

 

The foregoing as wells as clothing, guns, accessories, etc. is quite a burden for new shooters. Experiments

in trying our sport is costly and that is holding back our growth. We pride ourselves on being a family

sport but the capital cost of involving the family is a formidable obstacle.

 

Our dues structure is ot what's holding down our numbers!!!

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The dues structure is not the entire reason for members leaving SASS and just shooting monthly matches as unaffiliated shooters. In the past several years the Wild Bunch has been seen by many as trying to push shooters away. I know many shooters who no longer maintain their SASS membership, and will list their reasons.

 

1. Saying that match directors and people who set up and organize matches are cheaters if they shoot that same match. This comment and attitude resulted in the loss of many good workers and shooters. Some still shoot, but don't pay membership anymore. I tried to discuss this with Tex one night at a match, he was very rude and would not discuss the issue.

 

2. The disrespect shown to the Territorial Governors over the open and empty rule. For the WB to step in and over rule the TG's, showed great disrespect for the membership. Some shooters who left over this have returned, but many have not. When I wanted to become our club's TG some shooters asked if I was nuts for wanting to deal with an organization that does not respect its members.

 

3. The disrespect shown for shooters who wear jeans. The SASS rules allow jeans, yet members of the Wild Bunch have stated time and again that wearing jeans is not "cowboy".

 

4. The big jump in dues. Sure dues had not increased for many years, however the increase could have been eased in over two to three years. That way hardly anyone would have said a thing.

 

5. The loss of the monthly printed Cowboy Chronicle. This was seen by many as the main benefit for joining SASS and paying yearly dues, taking it away caused them to just quit paying dues. The new quarterly came too late to be of benefit; it should have been done in conjunction with the elimination of the monthly.

 

I hope this answers the questions of why people no longer pay SASS dues. They still show up at monthly matches and support the local clubs, just do not shoot at SASS sanctioned (State and Above) matches.

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My poor old octogenarian fingers often fail me. My last line was supposed to be "The dues structure is

NOT what's holding down our numbers". :-)

 

Almost invariably, innovate founders of organizations stay well past their time and finish their

careers hurting and, often, destroying their outfits. They also lose sight of who their members

are and what they want.

 

I was hoping that, with the new organizational structure, SASS would also get new officers!!! Alas, .......

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Howdy,

 

When first joining SASS the individual membership cost is $75 and then the yearly renewal is $65. Spouse is $60 with a renewal of $55 and Junior (18 & under) $25 with renewal of $5. This info may be found on the SASS Homepage under Membership.

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

 

PS No offense, but I think posting on the Forum should be a privilege of membership, viewing of course would free.

I think this would be a good idea but needs to be taken one step further to require Current membership but am guessing it would be a costly and cumbersome task for the SASS office to monitor! As far as the cost, It would be no different than many other forums who require yearly dues JUST to be able to post on their forum!

 

I wonder how many current posters joined SASS, got their badge number then just let their annual membership lapse for one reason or another? Ever notice how you always see the same folks lining up posting negative thoughts against SASS when a thread is started about dues or the SASS office personnel or anything involving costs of being a member? I'll wager that those threads would disappear if current membership was required.

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Howdy-

I have to differ with Keystone on an out and out prohibition on posting anything by non members. I feel it would be reasonable to maybe have non member not to be allowed to post items For Sale , but if someone is wanting to get into this expensive sport, they will be looking in the Wire Classifieds for offered items! I have sold to pards who were not yet members arms to get equipped for SASS, and , yes, membership followed shortly, although it WAS mentioned that without a monthly Cowboy Chronicle ( this was prior to the Quarterly edition which is another story ), not much benefit to membership was seen ( BEFORE you go and flame me for saying that, remember- That was something I'd been TOLD by a prospect, at the time. Offers for a VISA card with a not so favorable interest rate, or yet another Accidental death /dismemberment life insurance policy offer non-withstanding. Travel / Hotel discounts I can get from AAA, along with Roadside Service and Towing, which is actually useful, once every 5 years or so, without tagging myself as a gun owner, and setting myself up for theft ) . Just my 0.02

P.S.- my membership is current, though I still don't feel that I'm seeing improved representation from the increased membership fee. Something about the Founder's Ranch business comes to mind, not beat that horse again.

Edited by Conestoga Smith, SASS #18219

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I'm glad this subject came up because I had forgotten to renew and honestly, I don't know when I was due to renew, but I just did so before posting this. ;)

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It was around 14-16 months ago that the buffalo chips hit the fan when the higher annual dues and club fees were announced. If I remember correctly, at that time membership was around 18,500. The Invisible Clubs post got me wondering. What is the current membership?

Well, you got a lot of responses. Was your fundamental question answered?

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Hello Folks,

 

I would not favor limiting posting to members only. In the last year, we have had several potential members post questions and later join SASS. I know this as they asked me to change their name to their newly acquired SASS Alias. That alone is sufficient, in my mind, to not limit posting.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Recently had a conversation with a shooting buddy......life get's crazy, and with clubs closing (ranges kicking clubs out), he's not sure if he's gonna renew since time to go to state and above matches has dwindled. And at $65 dollars a year, why bother. Makes me wonder.

 

But I noticed the 3 year membership, which I've done since joining in '06, is now gone, and life getting a little crazy, I wonder if I'll renew in '18 when it's due.

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Hello Folks,

 

I would not favor limiting posting to members only. In the last year, we have had several potential members post questions and later join SASS. I know this as they asked me to change their name to their newly acquired SASS Alias. That alone is sufficient, in my mind, to not limit posting.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Simple solution. Guests get 6-9 months before their web access expires and need to become paying members

 

Dues and membership pay the funds for SASS to support this website. If your not an active paid member or in that 6-9 month guest bucket, just read only access IMHO

 

In my opinion the decline in paid membership is because of the generousity of SASS to still offer these services (like this website and being able to shoot matches without fees, unlike other pistol sports) to all for free trusting that the membership will continue to support them, while you have many shooters who proudly wear their sass badge and use their ailias, post on this website and haven't paid dues for years. That's disgraceful in my opinion.

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I haven't paid dues in years, am not disgraceful, in fact paid twice the life membership price for my "Endowment: life membership! And agree with Allie Mo, interested new persons need a avenue to make inquiries. Even one that probably overwhelms them with extraneous and sometimes conflicting info!

 

THE benefit of membership is protection of your alias. Which is part and parcel of what clubs agree to when becoming affiliated and hold SASS sanctioned matches. I like the fact that I can travel from WA to FL, CA to ME and know I can shoot under my alias.

 

The Chronicle is icing on the cake. It started out a quarterly; I tended to read it less as a monthly, quarterly is 'bout often enough.

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Simple solution. Guests get 6-9 months before their web access expires and need to become paying members

 

Dues and membership pay the funds for SASS to support this website. If your not an active paid member or in that 6-9 month guest bucket, just read only access IMHO

 

In my opinion the decline in paid membership is because of the generousity of SASS to still offer these services (like this website and being able to shoot matches without fees, unlike other pistol sports) to all for free trusting that the membership will continue to support them, while you have many shooters who proudly wear their sass badge and use their ailias, post on this website and haven't paid dues for years. That's disgraceful in my opinion.

Simple?

 

Okay, who do you propose pay for the monitoring of that 6-9 month period's expiration or for the programming changes.

 

I do not want to pay for it; nor, am I willing to volunteer to support it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Simple?

 

Okay, who do you propose pay for the monitoring of that 6-9 month period's expiration or for the programming changes.

 

I do not want to pay for it; nor, am I willing to volunteer to support it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

If the membership database is on the same server as this website, or is on a server that can be accessed via web services, then it could be made fully automatic (that's the kind of junk I do for the Marine Corps these days). However, in a small organization like SASS, I would bet that the membership database is more likely an Access database sitting on someone's desktop machine.

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I'm paid up in SASS until February of 2019. Looking to upgrade to Life but can't quite handle the one time $$ to make that jump.

 

I did inquire a while back as to whether the $800 would be prorated with what I have already paid, the answer was yes,.

 

I also asked if there would be a payment plan coming for Life membership and was told that option was being looked at. Apparently nothing has been implemented on that issue as it is not an option showing up. I keep checking the SASS web site in hopes of being able to spread that cost out over a few months, but nothing yet.

 

Emails have gone unanswered as to whether a payment plan is in the works.

 

I plan on signing our granddaughter up next month at her 1st birthday also. Sure she has a ways to go before even being able to shoot, but that's ok.

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I did inquire a while back as to whether the $800 would be prorated with what I have already paid, the answer was yes,.

 

 

Whoa?? Seriously?

 

Than I'm probably only $100 away from being a life member......

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Folks, I often ask myself when something bothers me "Does this really matter or affect me"? Often,I find it doesn't.

 

Now that I have said that I will say this, I have made it my goal to become a Life member this calendar year. It is now $800. Back in the 90's and early 2000's I believe it was $500. I would have saved money had I became a life member then, but I didn't. I could also be rolling in dough if I had bought a few pounds of gold at $350 an ounce back then...but I didn't :)

 

Current annual membership is $75 and $60 per family member. $75 for a year works out to $6.25 a month. That's worth it to me to have fun, see my friends and make new friends.

 

As for people posting on here that aren't members? As long as the abide by the rules and are friendly I really don't care.

As for people who join and get a number and do not renew? I care but I am not going to burst a blood vessel over it...Not my job, man. If they are shirkers that's on them.

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Well, you got a lot of responses. Was your fundamental question answered?

No.

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Simple?

 

Okay, who do you propose pay for the monitoring of that 6-9 month period's expiration or for the programming changes.

 

I do not want to pay for it; nor, am I willing to volunteer to support it.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

I believe there is a basic function in the setup of IP board that will send an email notification to someone when a new user registers. Just drop that name in a simple excel file when receive notification. Once a month review names who are about to expire with the SASS office to see if the many have joined. And if not, delete. Yes, simple, no programming costs and take about 30 min maybe a month.

 

Yes programming and running this board is and can be expensive, that's why this benefit of membership should be for current members in good standing or guests for a limited time

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I believe there is a basic function in the setup of IP board that will send an email notification to someone when a new user registers. Just drop that name in a simple excel file when receive notification. Once a month review names who are about to expire with the SASS office to see if the many have joined. And if not, delete. Yes, simple, no programming costs and take about 30 min maybe a month.

 

Yes programming and running this board is and can be expensive, that's why this benefit of membership should be for current members in good standing or guests for a limited time

Hello Toranado,

 

There is no email notification. When I log on to the Admin. Control Panel, I can see all new registrations.

 

The Excel spread sheet would be simple.

 

However, there is no way to stop a deleted person from reregistering with a different name or email. They could even be banned and that is no guarantee they can't get though anyway. I have spent hours keeping (researching) two banned people who have done just that.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Whoa?? Seriously?

 

Than I'm probably only $100 away from being a life member......

By prorating, I was meaning what I have paid ahead, not what I have already used.

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The Wire is a great marketing tool. Personally, I would not want to force folks that just want to visit the website to join, there are many who just look at the wire to see what's happening and it would be a disservice to shut them out. We have a few locals that shoot with us occasionally that are non-members, they were ready to join and the dues went up, that's when they decided it cost too much. The best marketing tool was the old chronicle, in the old format. Now it is gone and we have a new model, although shiny, ii's not what I prefer. The digital version is a dismal failure and few bother opening the file. SASS has dropped the ball on advertisement and marketing, and it's left up to the few of us left to pay the price for lack of members. I work pretty hard at promoting CAS, running matches, setting up matches, building stuff, etc. SASS needs to figure out how to make folks "want" to join not "have" to join. Obviously, the current marketing plan is not working, and we all need to focus on how to get new members and get old members to return. Perhaps, we should look back at the timeline when things started dropping off and learn from the mistakes made in order to improve our numbers. What happened in 2005 that caused numbers to become static? We were growing by 10k members a year in the early 2000's and now we might get 2-3k new members per year. It was a hoot watching SASS grow and meeting all the new shooters, I'd love to see those days again.

Edited by Assassin
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I know quite a few shooters who have stated that this dues increase was the last straw. "It's like throwing money to the wind."

Last year SASS sent us a bunch of gift cards as prizes for our State Shoot................ALL EXPIRED!!! Nothing in the "Mercantile" worth buying anyway

The SASS Cronical is gone, That new rag isn't worth looking at.

 

For a couple at $75.00 + $60.00 a year for what? Nothing.

 

Why is SASS membership dropping? It ain't Rocket Science.

 

Knarley

Edited by Knarley Bob

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Assassin has a very good point. When was the last time you picked up a magazine like Guns and Ammo and saw an article on CAS? When was the last time you saw ads for CAS guns in major magazines? It's all "tactical" this and "tacti-cool" that now.

 

I think some promotion is needed by more than just the members.

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The Wire is a great marketing tool. Personally, I would not want to force folks that just want to visit the website to join, there are many who just look at the wire to see what's happening and it would be a disservice to shut them out. We have a few locals that shoot with us occasionally that are non-members, they were ready to join and the dues went up, that's when they decided it cost too much. The best marketing tool was the old chronicle, in the old format. Now it is gone and we have a new model, although shiny, ii's not what I prefer. The digital version is a dismal failure and few bother opening the file. SASS has dropped the ball on advertisement and marketing, and it's left up to the few of us left to pay the price for lack of members. I work pretty hard at promoting CAS, running matches, setting up matches, building stuff, etc. SASS need to figure out how to make folks "want" to join not "have" to join. Obviously, the current marketing plan is not working, and we all need to focus on how to get new members and get old members to return. Perhaps, we should look back at the timeline when things started dropping off and learn from the mistakes made in order to improve our numbers. What happened in 2005 that caused numbers to become static? We were growing by 10k members a year in the early 2000's and now we might get 2-3k new members per year. It was a hoot watching SASS grow and meeting all the new shooters, I'd love to see those days again.

 

Well said.
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I think the OP was asking how many active members there are total. Apparently there used to be 18,500. What's the number today, higher or lower.

 

BS

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I think the OP was asking how many active members there are total. Apparently there used to be 18,500. What's the number today, higher or lower.

 

BS

About 24,000.

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By prorating, I was meaning what I have paid ahead, not what I have already used.

Bummer.....if bought a Life Membership when I started this game, it would be paod off by now

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I personally do not believe that a dues increase or the Chronicle being eliminated, then changed to a slick magazine (that in itself alienated many members), are some reasons for members' animosity. The way those things were implemented, managed and continue to be maintained, has created an intense lack of confidence and trust in many members that pretty much cannot be fixed.

 

Rabid, blind loyalty and snide remarks from certain members, directed at other members who complain and criticize, along with sloppy administration (such as the expired gift cards noted above), and disrespectful management statements like, "when all this blows over," have created rifts in members' trust that cannot be repaired. Some members leave and some stay, but the damage has been done and I believe the focus is no longer on legacy membership, but on newcomers, who don't know the history.

 

 

BY THE WAY, in my view, limiting Forums access to paid members would be a mistake for a host of reasons.

Edited by Cat Brules, SASS #14086
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If the membership number of 18,500 quoted earlier in this thread is correct I am shocked and appalled.

 

Well, not really.

 

The economy and aging SASS shooters has a role in the diminishing numbers of current members.

 

Many folks cannot afford to travel to the big matches so they shoot at their local clubs which are and always will be the grass roots of this game. No membership required in most cases.

 

Look at the numbers of seniors and older at Winter Range and EOT. They are almost always the largest categories and many of which are life members. These folks are active seniors but not all seniors are still that active so they shoot locally.

 

One quick kick at a dead horse.

 

The revenue problems for SASS started when they left California and moved to New Mexico.

 

I was at the last two EOTs in California and the manner in which SASS left was not the Cowboy Way.

Edited by Stoney Creek
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...I believe the focus is no longer on legacy membership, but on newcomers, who don't know the history.

 

I think that's the most important statement made in this entire thread.

 

This is the beginning of my sixth year, so I'm a relative newcomer, and I'm 58 years old, so I'm relatively young in the world of SASS. We baby boomers grew up playing "Cowboys and Indians" so this game is right up our alley, but my boys who are in their 30's did not. For them it was Transformers or Power Rangers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and they don't relate to this game at all. I don't have a clue what today's 20 year olds grew up playing.

 

The good folks down in Florida came up with a couple of cool videos to attract a younger crowd, but that alone is not enough. I like to say that one shouldn't complain without offering a solution, but in this case, I come up dry. However, if we don't collectively recognize this and if people brighter than me don't come up with some good ideas, then we as an organization will soon age right out of existence.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2017 - Insulting to CA
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2017 - Insulting to CA

I was at the last two EOTs in California and the manner in which SASS left was not the Cowboy Way.

While this may be true, California is not the Cowboy way nor the American way anymore.

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Posted · Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2017 - Reply to hidden post.
Hidden by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217, January 22, 2017 - Reply to hidden post.

While this may be true, California is not the Cowboy way nor the American way anymore.

Quite an ignorant statement to lump an entire state, that probably has the most sass members and clubs, as unamerican and uncowboy.

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About 24,000.

Was wondering about dues about annual dues paying members only.

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