Mustang Gregg Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Pards, I just got in 500 once fired empty .44 Special cases. A large share of them are cannelured (at various heights). Most are CBC* and some are R-P. I have not used cannelured brass in many years. I was wondering how much case life you could expect at low CAS pressures. My theory is that not as much(??). Should I pick those cases out and use them for practice only-rounds? Much obliged, Mustang *Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Brass will typically fail (split) where it has been worked first. A case with a cannelured ring is more likely to fail along that ring than a plain case. The plain case is more likely to split along the length of the case rather than around. IF it fails along that ring, part of the case may be left in the chamber making the gun unusable until the brass is removed. Special tools, by Shotgun Boogie and others as well as not so simple methods must be used to remove that brass. I guess you could ask the question. Do you feel lucky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Gringo, SASS # 74217 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I have used ringed brass in .45 Colt for about 7 years. Most were CBCs and they always split with the length of the brass and never around at the ring. With that said I seen a Cowboys day go South because his brass did split at the ring and put his rifle out of commission on stage 2 during an annual. Once I seen that, I don't feed ringed brass in my rifle any more. I now save them for the pistols only. Just goes to show you that you can run them for years and not have one problem. Its just that one time and your bit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I've NEVER seen a .45 Colt case split around the circumference, either cannelured or not. For .45 Colt, I shoot them all (except A-Merc). I'd suspect your experience with .44 spl cases would be about the same. I have seen a few .38 spls split around at the cannelure. I would do them the same way I do nickel .38s - save them for pistol. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I would worry more about the brass headstamp (i.e., the quality of the brass and how it performs in the reloading press) before I would worry about cannelure failure. Some brands fail being resized, some fail trying to seat the new primer, etc. I cull out CBC and some others, but then, for the most part, I reload .38 Special brass and that's the bulk of my experience. With that in mind, brass can last a very long time (30+ reloads), give the light loads we use. I cannot speak to black powder reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I have been shooting CAS since 1997, 38sp, 45 Colt, and 44mag. I used to be concerned about the channelures but have started to ignore it. I have not had a piece of brass fail except from splits starting at the case mouth. YMMV Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I save cannelured and nickle brass for my pistols. Nickle brass seems to split in the mid length of the case first with the split traveling up and down the case. Havent had any split around the cannelure yet buy why take the chance in my rifle. I have been reloading CBC brass in 38 special for about 3 years with no issues. You may find that the primers take a little more effort to seat the first time you reload them. After the 2nd or third reloading I cannot tell the difference in seating primers in CBC vs any other head stamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Cash Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I agree with Cat B. I cull out the CBC cases as quick as I can. Their primer pocket diameters seem to be a tiny bit undersize and create more issues than they are worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 CBC brass is pure CRAP. No matter what caliber. I loose most brass to neck splits. Cannelure doesn't seem to be a factor for me. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I am magic! That's right, Magic...If I have a round made up with cannelured brass it will appear in my rifle. It will appear in my rifle and separate in a nice ring. It's happened to me 3 times because I was too cheap not to use THAT brass. I do not use cannelured brass now, I throw it away. I do not "save it for revolver" or try and only use it for practice. I dispose of it. Used to be If someone else wanted it I would give it to them with the caveat that I never want to hear anything about how "that brass you gave me failed and whaaaah, whaaah, whaaah..." guess how that went?.... :angry: Sorry, got a little carried away remembering all the (insert colorful expletive here) I have put up with using cannelured brass or giving it away...I no longer even give it away. I just recycle it or toss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 PR-I'd be have that chamber check'd out, and test headspace. Somedangthing is 'off'. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I guess i'm testing Murphy's law. Now for the last 7 years, I have used nothing but Nickel Brass, most of which is cannelured, in my 357 Marlin '94, and have NEVER experienced a case separation of any kind. Split cases, YES, but never a case separation. Yes I know I could us the Nickel in the Pistol's and the Brass non-cannelured in the rifle, but that's not how I do it. Actually the reverse. Nickel in the Rifle, and Brass in the Pistols. If it ever starts giving me problems, I may change, but it never has, and I suspect it never will. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Having seen it happens a dozen or so times in the last several years, I won't use any cannelured case in this game. Brass is cheap compared to the match entry, travel and other expenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your Nemesis Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Use it in the pistols and don't take the chance of loosing it in the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Howdy The stuff we call cannelured brass today just has a light imprint stamped into the brass. Take a look at this pair of old 38-40 rounds, particularly the one on the right. Now that's a cannelure. The light imprint that CBC and other manufacturers put on their brass probably does not stress the brass enough to cause any problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 CBC brass is pure CRAP. No matter what caliber. I loose most brass to neck splits. Cannelure doesn't seem to be a factor for me. OLG Funny I have been reloading over 1700 pieces of Magtech / CBC head stamp .38 special brass for 3 years and other than some of the primers needing a little more effort to seat the first reloading I have had no issues. Most have been loaded at least ten times and I have yet to have a split case. When I started CAS my swap meet find SDB was back at Dillon getting refurbished. I bought 2000 rounds of bulk Magtech 158 grain LRNFP .38 specials and saved the brass for reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Good to hear this-Maybe their QC has improved then. Stuff I tried was all over the place in case wall thickness and rim thickness. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 I've seen 38s split along the cann, 3 times,,, once me and twice in others' rifles, won't use it in rifle at a big match....never seen it in 45 but then I don't shoot 45s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 PR-I'd be have that chamber check'd out, and test headspace. Somedangthing is 'off'. OLG Well, the brass I used was some knock off brand of ammo that I had bought for a plinking session in the desert. I believe I had reloaded it several times, probably 3 or 4...maybe, and I do not load "mouse fart" loads. The cannelures were deep. The chamber in that rifle was in perfect shape so, well used crappy brass, deep cannelures and pretty decent charges in the loads and WALLA! Problems Oh yeah, this was .38 Spl brass. Doh! I had to edit. I just realized I had put that I had loaded the brass 8 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 With the number of reloadings. Clearly the brass had work hardened. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 I just loaded up two boxes of the .44 Special CBC brass. I'm going to shoot it as practice brass and fire and reload repeatedly it until I see a "weak" point show up. I found that for once fired brass, the primers went in more loosely than other brands of brass. They defiantly were not tighter primer pockets than the RP, WW, FC and Starline. The stuff went through the dies very smoothly too. We will see--- Mustang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 It may well happen with very next shot I fire... but, in 44 years of firing almost exclusively ammo I've reloaded, I've experienced exactly one case separation. Suspiciously, right where that .30-30 round sat upside down, and rattled around in that old MTM box, leaving a shiny ring around the case. I've had about a dozen 45Colt cases split longitudinally, due, IMO, to the generous chambers in rifles so chambered. And that's been with every brand of cases produced, cannelured or not! Some of which I know I've never purchased. But, just as chamber dimensions differ from one to the next, I'd bet that sizer die dimensions do also. So, that said, YMMV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 I am loading a firing off a 50 round box of the same CBC brass. I am up to 9 times now with them in both revolver and Marlin. Only one split. And it was in the middle of the case (not mouth or cannelure). The test goes on.... MUSTANG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Except for the WW II and before deep cannelures, I've not found them to be a split starting point. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I have had and seen cannelure separations. To be safe use it only in pistols or for practice. Can't believe it when I see good shooters using it in rifles at an annual match. It's a train wreck waiting to happen, it will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I have had and seen cannelure separations. To be safe use it only in pistols or for practice. Can't believe it when I see good shooters using it in rifles at an annual match. It's a train wreck waiting to happen, it will happen. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 What a Maroon...I had to edit my above post as I had said I had problems with cannelured brass after 8 reloadings. It was more like 3 or 4. I normally get about 8 reloading on brass and then I chuck it - if I am lucky. By the way, if you have to buy ammo for a match the Magtech "Cowboy" loads in .45 have cannelured brass. I don't don't about the other loads. The brass is marked CBC on the bottom. I have some of this brass and will use it to develop a load recipe and then it goes bye-bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 I seem to remember his discussion a few months back. I've only been reloading for about 10-12 years so my experiences are quite a bit less than those of you that have been doing it a lot longer. All of my 38 brass is once fired stuff and a lot of mixed head stamps. I was in the process of reloading 38's and 44-40 at the time, so I culled out the cannelured brass to be used in pistols only. I have been loading whatever I grabbed at the time and have had very few split brass. I keep a couple of jars for spent primers and split brass. Just for the heck of it I checked out the brass in those. Nickel and Brass that split was right about 50-50 and ALL of those were lengthwise splits. None were at the cannelure rings. Maybe I was just lucky, but I did decide not to use that in my rifle. This was with whatever head stamp I got when I buy once fired brass. The only new 44-40 I have is Winchester and Starline. Some of the 38 brass has been reloaded at least 8-10 times and some enough that the nickel plating has worn off to about 50%. No splits though in those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted March 11, 2017 Author Share Posted March 11, 2017 The same box of 50 has been now loaded and fired 15 times. Up to 2 splits but NO separations at the cannelures. The primer pockets are still tight. The test goes on. Mustang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largo casey #19191 Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Had a young lady at WR have a case seperate rite at the base & rifle was first.8 misses for that stage. Largo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted March 11, 2017 Share Posted March 11, 2017 Grrrrrr >:-( Too bad. That's why many shooters use only new brass at signiicant/large, etc, matches. I'm a believer that, if you first cull out crappy brass (headstamped brass known to be of poor quality), then meticulously inspect your cleaned brass prior to reloading it, you will accomplish the same end. PLUS, you'll catch stuff like cleaning media plugging a piece of otherwise good brass. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted April 13, 2017 Author Share Posted April 13, 2017 Well I think I will finish my test on the used yellow cannelured CBC brass. I loaded the same 50 rounds of .44 Special 22 times using 200 gr bullets and loading to 900 FPS. These were alternately used in a Marlin M1894 and two Ruger K-Vaqueros (all .44 Mag chambers). Here's what I found: 1. Only four primer pockets seem a little loose. 2. Eight cases split from the mouth. 3. The cannelures look less deep than they did at the start of the test. 4. None of the cases split at the cannelure. 5. I reckon I will go ahead and use that type of brass of CAS. 6. If I ever start to have a problem with those; they are easy to cull out. Your results may vary, Mustang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 On another forum, some guy asked how to get a tool to apply a cannelure. I had no replay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted April 13, 2017 Share Posted April 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Warden Callaway said: On another forum, some guy asked how to get a tool to apply a cannelure. I had no replay. C-H Tool and Die lists a tool to put cannelures on bullets. It might work on brass as well, have your guy contact them. Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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