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Tom Payne 13115

EOT Wild Bunch

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What is the avarage amount of rounds for pistol and rifle per stage for WB at EOT??

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An exact count would probably be available if you asked in the Wild Bunch forum, but you can pretty well count on no more than 30 pistol, 10 rifle and 6 shotgun per stage, and 12 stages of regular match and 4 stages of warm-up. I'll let you do the math.

 

Rifle has a good chance of being less. Shotgun could be just a couple more - worth taking an extra box or two. And don't forget extra for WB side matches, including clay birds. Which we don't have word about yet. Bring a BAMM rifle if you got it, too.

 

Good luck, see ya there! GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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I shot it. It was usually 10 rifle, (9 on a couple of stages), 30 pistol and, very annoyingly, 6 shotgun. My 97's are all unmodified from the way they were made, and none of them holds 6 rounds.

 

To have a stage convention that requires you to modify your gun if you don't have one of the random ones that hold six from the factory is not right.

 

To be honest, if I ever make it back to EoT, I prolly won't bother with Wild Bunch again for that very reason.

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

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I shot it. It was usually 10 rifle, (9 on a couple of stages), 30 pistol and, very annoyingly, 6 shotgun. My 97's are all unmodified from the way they were made, and none of them holds 6 rounds.

 

To have a stage convention that requires you to modify your gun if you don't have one of the random ones that hold six from the factory is not right.

 

To be honest, if I ever make it back to EoT, I prolly won't bother with Wild Bunch again for that very reason.

I don't know why one would not just change the spring. One can always put the original back in after the match.

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I don't know why one would not just change the spring. One can always put the original back in after the match.

 

General principal. We should not be forcing people to change their guns if they don't want to in order to participate in an event without a handicap. If people WANT to change their guns, more power to them. But we should be able to use the guns the way they were made. :)

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619

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I don't know why one would not just change the spring. One can always put the original back in after the match.

Yep. :lol: Or one can just leave the spring in and ALWAYS be able to load 6. About 3" of uncompressed spring out the front of the mag tube works fine.

 

Good luck, GJ

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General principal. We should not be forcing people to change their guns if they don't want to in order to participate in an event without a handicap. If people WANT to change their guns, more power to them. But we should be able to use the guns the way they were made. :)

Sorry I just don't see the point. If one wants to compete without the so called handicap one has to have the right equipment to play the game.

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H.K. Uria I think your reason for not shooting W.B. is ridiculous. With your way of thinking, everyone would be shooting black powder. Is the barrel of you shotgun sawed off, if it is, you modified your gun to shoot either cowboy or W.B.

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Sorry I just don't see the point. If one wants to compete without the so called handicap one has to have the right equipment to play the game.

 

Sorry I just don't see the point. If one wants to compete without the so called handicap one has to have the right equipment to play the game.

 

THAT's my point. They have designed the game so that you must modify your guns to be able to do it. You should be able to play the game without penalty with unmodified equipment . It has been set up so that the opposite is true. Setting it up so that it requires a modification to avoid a penalty is not right.

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H.K. Uria I think your reason for not shooting W.B. is ridiculous. With your way of thinking, everyone would be shooting black powder. Is the barrel of you shotgun sawed off, if it is, you modified your gun to shoot either cowboy or W.B.

 

Actually, I shoot a 30" 97 for both games. :)

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THAT's my point. They have designed the game so that you must modify your guns to be able to do it. You should be able to play the game without penalty with unmodified equipment . It has been set up so that the opposite is true. Setting it up so that it requires a modification to avoid a penalty is not right.

Ok, so have you requested a rule change?

As a side thought does a Model 12 need modification to hold 6? If not get a nice Model 12 for $300-400

Edited by John Barleycorn, SASS #76982

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Ok, so have you requested a rule change?

As a side thought does a Model 12 need modification to hold 6? If not get a nice Model 12 for $300-400

 

How does one do that?

 

I did get a feeback form after EoT to give feedback about the event. What I liked, didn't like, thought could be better, or just different, etc...

 

I did mention the WB shotgun thing in that feedback.

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So... the game has to be "dummed down" to the lowest common denominator? What about folks that have 16" carbines, only hold 9, do we have to limit the number of shots allowed to 9? No, those folks either load any additional rounds on the clock, modify their gun, (or ammo - load short cartridges), or buy another gun that holds the most common number of rounds seen in a stage. If they choose option A, they're choosing to put themselves under a handicap, they are not "forced" to do anything.

 

My '97 only holds 5 also... unless I use shells that have an overall loaded length that allows that 6th round to be squeezed in. Not a problem. I buy that brand of shell. I don't have short stroke kits in any rifles or pistols... should I just quit, because they're allowed? There are enough things in the world to be principled about... IMO, this ain't one of 'em.

 

Folks complained when the official WB rules were announced that they "had to have" a 1911. Some folks, I imagine on principle also, won't shoot because of that rule. I never owned a '97 until WB. I personally feel they're not appropriate for a "cowboy" game; plus, under the cowboy rules, I'm faster with a double. I decided that if I was going to join in on the fun, I better get a '97. I now have 3. Had I stood on my "principles", I wouldn't be shootin' with friends and havin' FUN!

 

BTW, while some of our WB stages have 6 shotgun rounds, not all do. If you shoot cowboy with a '97, you're probably pretty practiced at loadin' one on the clock...

 

No, the STUPID rule in WB is limiting the 1911 to 5 rounds, when it was clearly designed and introduced with SEVEN round magazines. But, because cowboy action shooters can't count past 5, we have to limit the 1911 accordingly! :ph34r: :P:D:D

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I shot it. It was usually 10 rifle, (9 on a couple of stages), 30 pistol and, very annoyingly, 6 shotgun. My 97's are all unmodified from the way they were made, and none of them holds 6 rounds.

 

To have a stage convention that requires you to modify your gun if you don't have one of the random ones that hold six from the factory is not right.

 

To be honest, if I ever make it back to EoT, I prolly won't bother with Wild Bunch again for that very reason.

Well.... don't use those modern length shells, there are many 2 5/8 and 2 1/2" options to make the gun hold 6... I know from first hand experience with a particular 97 and my LC Smith hammer gun with short chambers and STEEL barrels. The shorter length shells have worked well for me many times, EOT included!

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Well that would be like taking your standard Chevy Impala down to Daytona 500 and say you want to play to.?

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If you don't want to do the simple five minute modification to your '97 (took me all of 2 minutes to change out the spring in mine), then use a Winchester Model 12, they hold six shells without any modifications.

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Okay, for the record...

 

1. I use 2-1/2" all brass Magtech shells in my shotguns 97's

2. I agree that the 5 rounds in the 1911 magazine makes no sense, but while it is a similar one, that is a separate issue.

3. The 10 round limit for rifles in both SASS and WB actually makes sense. Sure 24" or longer barrels with full length mags can usually hold more than 10, but even when the game started 20" barrels were often the shortest ones available and they held 10 rounds. Choosing 10 rounds was not "dumbing down" the sport, it was based upon what was commonly available at the time. The shorter barrels that did not hold 10 rounds were, and in some ways, still are, an unusual variant and people who use them know up front that they can't hold the standard 10.

4. The 97 will hold 5 rounds, and was designed to do so. Some due to manufacturing variances will hold 6. Some people, by their own choice modify their guns to hold 6, and I have no problem with that. But the fact remains that, as they came from the factory, originals AND modern reproductions can only be assured of holding 5 rounds.

 

Wild Bunch is a sport built around the 97 as the shotgun. A gun that holds 5 rounds in the magazine. Commonly writing stage conventions with a gun in mind that is either a fluke or has been modified is not right. This is not dumbing it down, it's recognizing reality.

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No one is forcing you to modify your gun and there is no penalty if your gun just holds 5, but if you want to be competitive I would suggest making your gun hold 6. You don't hear Wild Bunch shooters whining about a 1911 that will 7 to 8 rounds, yet we only load 5. Get out your hacksaw, saw off the barrel to 20 inches, buy a 6 round spring kit and get on with it...................

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No one is forcing you to modify your gun and there is no penalty if your gun just holds 5, but if you want to be competitive I would suggest making your gun hold 6. You don't hear Wild Bunch shooters whining about a 1911 that will 7 to 8 rounds, yet we only load 5. Get out your hacksaw, saw off the barrel to 20 inches, buy a 6 round spring kit and get on with it...................

+1.

And with that I thinking this thread Is dead.LOL

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THAT's my point. They have designed the game so that you must modify your guns to be able to do it. You should be able to play the game without penalty with unmodified equipment . It has been set up so that the opposite is true. Setting it up so that it requires a modification to avoid a penalty is not right.

Actually, last night I was reading something interesting in the 1950 Winchester catalog... On the hunt for something else, but ran across this:

97%20catalog%20page.jpg

Please note what it sez about magazine capacity. Page 54 has no capacity info on the riot gun version of either the mdl 12 or 1897.

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I would suppose you would need to contact the Wild Bunch rule committee.

 

No one is forcing you to modify your gun and there is no penalty if your gun just holds 5, but if you want to be competitive I would suggest making your gun hold 6. You don't hear Wild Bunch shooters whining about a 1911 that will 7 to 8 rounds, yet we only load 5. Get out your hacksaw, saw off the barrel to 20 inches, buy a 6 round spring kit and get on with it...................

 

 

No sirree bob, many of us have been quite vocal from day one about loading seven.

 

I would suppose you would need to contact the Wild Bunch rule committee.

 

 

Do not waste your time with that for to quote Zappa "sounds like a typical loser's revolution to me". Just like with loading 7 in the mags, I have been ranting about writing 6 shotgun shell stages vs 5 shell stages when the latter would be just as fun, from the beginning of WBAS. I still do on occasion but it is what it is and ain't ever gonna change. So I now have 6 M12s.

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I shot it. It was usually 10 rifle, (9 on a couple of stages), 30 pistol and, very annoyingly, 6 shotgun. My 97's are all unmodified from the way they were made, and none of them holds 6 rounds.

 

To have a stage convention that requires you to modify your gun if you don't have one of the random ones that hold six from the factory is not right.

 

To be honest, if I ever make it back to EoT, I prolly won't bother with Wild Bunch again for that very reason.

Use B&P 2.5 inch shells, no modifications needed.

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