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Any clubs letting shooters use one 1911 instead of 2 single actions and otherwise shoot stage same as other shooters. 1911 unloaded and holstered with no mag. Load mag from person at buzzer and shoot 5. Reload and shoot five. Re holster. Shoot other guns according to stage script. This will maybe attract new shooters who already has 1911 and cannot afford 2 pistols, rifle, and shotgun. Hopefully convert them to single actions later. Purpose is to attract new shooters. SASS and or Wild Bunch dress code. Create a class for them for scoring. They will be slower as drawing, loading, and racking takes time. Most SA shooter be finished with 1st gun before 1911 gets off 1st shot. Our club members are aging. Many have body part replacement, migrated to other type shooting, or just quit competing. Just looking for ways to attract new shooters. See any problems with this.

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Make sure you have a couple of your RO's familiar with the safety, manual of arms, malfunction clearing and lots of the specifics of shooting a 1911.

 

Don't reholster the 1911 after it has been shot. Gun with slide locked back won't fit well in the holster. Provide a staging table to put the open and empty 1911 down on the table, muzzle still down range. Then clear the 1911 on the line using the 1911 clearing techniques of:

* Show gun empty and magazine out

* Drop slide with muzzle down range

* Drop hammer by a trigger pull

* Re-holster

 

This style of mixed shooting has been done for years. Some clubs enjoy it. Lots of clubs have one or more Cowboy shooters who may have severe problems allowing this to be done in the match that they are shooting in. Keep your ears open as you start doing this. Be responsive to what the shooters are willing or unwilling to support. This is an old idea which has largely fallen out of favor at this time.

 

Almost all the clubs that have done this (combined Cowboy and simplified Wild Bunch) have found they might attract another 5% of shooters who don't want to shoot cowboy guns. But it's real hard to keep them coming back very long when there are more modern and tactically challenging sports like 3 Gun around the corner.

 

Consider also what you will let them use for their shotgun. Going to let them stoke their 97 with the number of rounds needed for shotgun targets? Going to allow Win Model 12 shotguns, and do you know how to check the Model 12 for hammer down on empty chamber?

 

Most of us would instead encourage you to have full-rule-set Wild Bunch matches! Allow smaller caliber rifles if you want. But get folks shooting under the full rule set. It's lots more fun, and then becomes something more than just Cowboy Shooting with a 1911. You will have a better chance of getting "repeat customers" when the matches are all Wild Bunch shooters, instead of a couple of 1911 shooters coming out to the range with 20 Cowboys.

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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What if the only firearms I have are a DA .44, an Auto 5 12ga, and a Winchester pump .22?

Can y'all create a special "class" so I can play, too?

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Probably get more WB shooters if went back to the old rules. Any semi or da pre 1917, any SASS legal lever.

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What if the only firearms I have are a DA .44, an Auto 5 12ga, and a Winchester pump .22?

Can y'all create a special "class" so I can play, too?

I'd loan ya the cowboy guns you need just 'cause I like ya.

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Kid - this comes up fairly often. I've only shot at one club that allows it. And the only shooters who do it are established cowboy shooters who are wanting something different that day.

 

The game is cowboy action shooting, and it's played with two single action revolvers. Folks that are interested and go to a match are often loaned guns to give it a try. Some enjoy it and get bit by the bug and stick around. For some it isn't their cup of tea, which is fine.

 

I am of the opinion that changing the game 'in hopes of attracting new shooters' would be changing the whole reason I fell in love with the game. Opinions vary.

 

Lastly, local clubs for monthly matches are free to offer whatever oddball categories they want. But in a sport that is competitive the established rules need to be followed whenever there is a title on the line. Again, just my opinion.

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I'd loan ya the cowboy guns you need just 'cause I like ya.

I certainly appreciate the offer!

 

In my experience, that is a more common attitude & practice than allowing "run what ya brung" for monthly club matches.

...and a much better recruiting method.

 

:)

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I agree with grizzly Dave. What one club I shoot at does occasionally is a mix and match shoot. There you can shoot almost any way you want, with certain handicaps. If you stoke your 97 or 87, it's a ten second penalty, and a ten second bonus if you use pistols for rifle targets. What I did was use my 1911 as my rifle and stoked my 87, while still being able to shoot my colts. That was a fun match. Another pard did it stoked 97, but shot josey Wales with 4 58 cap guns. It was cool watching the ideas and guns others used. I don't recall any double actions though. It's not something I'd do all the time, but we all had fun and it was well advertised ahead of time so there weren't any surprises.

Edited by Redwood Kid

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:ph34r: Our club has a category we call "Pike", as in The Wild Bunch, where a .45 semi auto with 2 magazines with 5 rounds is utilized instead of 2 single action pistols. Everything else is normal CAS arms. Fun for variety for those who don't want to go full-on Wild Bunch.

 

The downside is experienced by the brass picker....... :(

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I talk to a good amount of visitors who come to watch CAS matches. If they know much about any guns, their eye light up when they see a cowboy or cowgirl run a 25 second stage with the single action revolvers, lever gun and SxS. They stand with jaws agape when they see the same done in 16 seconds.

 

One of the 'hooks' to our game is the stringent equipment rules.

 

I also imagine that new shooter who saved, researched and spent $2000 or more to start the game and was in his first year of shooting would not think favorably on the corral gates being opened to allow such easy access.

 

This is a good question, but the negatives can easily outweigh any gains.

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It's called the "Single Action Shooting Society".

There is a rule book. That rule book says what allowed and what isn't.

There is another off-shoot of our game. It's called "Wild Bunch"

That is where one can compete, shoot, have fun, participate, what have you, with 1911's.

Edited by Pat Riot, SASS #13748

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At Wartrace we have a CAS match the first Sat of the month and CAS and WB on the third Sat each month. Sometimes its two separate posses, sometimes, with less shooters we combine posses and do A-B split. It allows everybody to play the game they want that day. They even put up with me shooting 5 pistols in Josie Wales from time to time. We insist on following the safety rules and encourage new shooters at the same time. If a brand new shooter shows up with all the guns and gear and has not met and been mentored by an experienced shooter our Match director will ask an experienced shooter to check them out for safety and shoot on their posse, offering safety and procedure tips. We have never had to send someone away because they wouldnt play right. And we offer to loan people guns if they really want to play but dont have everything they need yet.Everybody Ive met in SASS is generous that way. I am often amazed at how many people dont want to BORROW guns, even for one match or a single stage.

Snowing, match canceled tomorrow

Imis

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The game was what it was long before I come along .

I fell in love with it the first time I saw it.

 

We play by the established rules because thats how the game is played.

I think if your local club decides to put on a special (shoot what you brung match)

That is up to that club .

But for SASS to change the rules ?

It would NOT be the same game .

And would Loose shooters NOT Gain shooters .

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I seem to remember shooters doing that at Texas Historical Shooting Society shoots near Columbus, Texas and it looked like a lot of fun. I tried "Wild Bunch" a couple of times and to me it was too much 45 auto shooting. Instead of ten rounds through the two pistols as a normal SASS match, I shot six or seven magazines of 45 auto at each stage! I was flinching and wore out after two stages. My 45 reloads were stout! not like my 105 grain 38 specials. I shot a match years ago with a top shooter shooting a Mauser broomhandle! He used it for the pistol stages and then attached the wooden buttstock holster and used it for the rifle stages. He was so kool!

Edited by Irish-Pat

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Howdy Kid,

 

I know of three clubs in CA that allow it. One is not SASS affiliated. They cater to new shooters with a shoot what you have until you get geared up attitude. They welcome new shooters by taking guns for them to try-before-buy on their practice days.

 

One club has mix and match and named categories for the different guns. It is at the same venue where we have a dedicated WBAS club. So, they get people from there that don't shoot the strict SASS clubs.

 

The third had three people shoot 1911s at their CAS annual. So, I imagine it is okay at monthlies too as one of those people is a regular there. This one is in So. CA.

 

I feel lucky to have three opportunities to shoot the 1911 at my two closest venues. I hope you will hear of more clubs close to you in response to this thread. You might also check out the WBAS forum and ask questions there. Following is a link to that forum. http://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/

 

Happy Trails,

 

Allie

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Any clubs letting shooters use one 1911 instead of 2 single actions and otherwise shoot stage same as other shooters.

There's one club around here that allows it. However, like PaleWolf pointed out, once you step outside the rules, where do you stop?

 

"I'd shoot Cowboy Action if I could use my 1100 Remington, a Glock 17, a Ruger 10/22, and didn't have to wear the goofy clothes."

 

Probably get more WB shooters if went back to the old rules. Any semi or da pre 1917, any SASS legal lever.

I'd definitely shoot my Lugers or S&W M&P revolvers in Wild Bunch. :-)

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Slippery slope.

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We had a bonus Wild Bunch stage at one match last year. Also a bonus Josey Wales stage at end of another. Then we had an extra Fun Shoot on October 30th where we allowed regular SASS, Wild Bunch or Josey Wales. We modified the stage scenario for Wild Bunch shooters so the 45 auto shot last so the TO could check cleared gun.

 

I shot one stage Wild Bunch and Josey Wales. I shot rifle targets gunfighter with 6 guns, then 1897 stoked with 6 shells for knockdowns, then handgun targets with 1911.

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"Fun Stages" or "Fun Matches" are for fun. I personally love stages that break up the same ol' thing but I wouldn't agree that just because someone wants to shoot 1911's as their main match gun just because they want to or for any reason that it should be allowed.

 

By the way, I do know that the terms "fun stages" or "fun matches" are not technically correct terms used or utilized by SASS for CAS and the term is solely my own to convey an idea in this post. :P

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Here in PA we are done for the season shooting outdoors. But we do have an indoor shoot January and February pistol and rifle only. No black powder. Today was the January match and I got to use my 1911. It was a fun match,an excuse to shoot and hang with some good people. I don't believe anyone gave a hoot that I shot 1911. But I did check in advance with the match director that it would be ok.

 

Hochbauer

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At Wartrace we have a CAS match the first Sat of the month and CAS and WB on the third Sat each month. Sometimes its two separate posses, sometimes, with less shooters we combine posses and do A-B split. It allows everybody to play the game they want that day. They even put up with me shooting 5 pistols in Josie Wales from time to time. We insist on following the safety rules and encourage new shooters at the same time. If a brand new shooter shows up with all the guns and gear and has not met and been mentored by an experienced shooter our Match director will ask an experienced shooter to check them out for safety and shoot on their posse, offering safety and procedure tips. We have never had to send someone away because they wouldnt play right. And we offer to loan people guns if they really want to play but dont have everything they need yet.Everybody Ive met in SASS is generous that way. I am often amazed at how many people dont want to BORROW guns, even for one match or a single stage.

Snowing, match canceled tomorrow

Imis

I like this approach. Stick with SASS rules for SASS shooters (no 1911) but offer a WB match to run concurrently. If we had more interest in WB locally I would consider adding that as an option at Doc Holliday's. Unfortunately WB is currently not much in demand and is only sporadically offered at one of the local clubs.

 

I think the requirement that the rifle be large caliber discourages many prospective WB shooters. Most local shooters use .38 special. By adding the rifle requirement prospective WB members often have to buy at least two new guns and often three. Add in the need for reloading equipment and components and you have a substantial increase in the time and money needed to join the game.

 

In my case I already have a 97 and a 1911. I have reloading dies for 38 sp and 45 ACP, plus all the components. If 38 sp were legal all I would need to buy is the leather. As it currently stands I would have to buy a new rifle, new reloading dies, a different caliber of bullet and new brass. That's a $2000 dollar investment rather than a couple of hundred, not to mention keeping three different calibers sorted and loaded.

 

I wonder what the rational behind the WB rifle requirement is....?

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Hi again,

 

I was cleaning out my inbox and found the following about one of the club's (I mentioned earlier) matches.

 

"Shoot It Your Way an Irregular Match"
Cowboy - Plainsman - Tom Horn - Wild Bunch

The "Irregulars" Cowboy Action categories are:

 

  • The Duke: all SASS smokeless and black powder categories
  • The Duchess: all SASS smokeless and black powder categories

 

The "Irregulars" Black Powder Big Bore Rifle Caliber categories are:

  • The Tom Horn: Two Pistols, Shotgun, Lever Action or Single Shot Rifle.
  • The Plainsman East: Two Cap & Ball pistols, Shotgun and Single Shot Rifle. i.e.H&R Handi Rifle Self Ejecting
  • The Plainsman West: Two Cap & Ball pistols, Shotgun and Single Shot Rifle: i.e. Trapdoors, Falling and Rolling Blocks etc.

The "Irregulars" Wild Bunch categories are:

 

  • The Pike: all SASS Wild Bunch categories
    • The Pikette: all SASS Wild Bunch categories
      • The Federale: 1897, any military bolt rifle & 1911

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Probably get more WB shooters if went back to the old rules. Any semi or da pre 1917, any SASS legal lever.

 

Do you happen to have a copy of those old rules? I would like to read them.

Thanks,

Blackfoot

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We allow it at the Wednesday shoot at www.firelandspeacemakers.com

 

That's because we have no categories on wednesdays! Our regular monthly match NO!!!

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Do you happen to have a copy of those old rules? I would like to read them.

Thanks,

Blackfoot

Sand Creek's "Professionals" regs are the quintessential "old school" rules

(Pre-WBAS)

http://www.sandcreekraiders.com/Professionals%20Rules.htm

 

IMO

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"Fun Matches" that are advertized that way are fine. I can choose whether or not to come. But if I show up at a regular monthly match that allows WB shooting at a cowboy match, I won't be back. Not meant as criticism, just my personal choice.

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Thanks for the link P.W., I thought he was making reference to some real WBAS rules.

 

Blackfoot :)

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Thanks for the link P.W., I thought he was making reference to some real WBAS rules.

I

Blackfoot :)

Probably referring to pre-WBAS WILD BUNCH sidematch rules, which varied considerably from match to match & from club to club.

WBAS was formed to standardize the equipment & safety practices.

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I wonder what the rational behind the WB rifle requirement is....?

 

My understanding is that the 150 power factor and the requirement of the .40-plus caliber rifle (the 1911s have to be .45 ACP and the shotgun must be 12 gauge) was something of a reaction to the tendency in cowboy action shooting towards small calibers and light loads. Wild Bunch targets tend to be more challenging (in terms of size and distance) than CAS targets.

 

When my local club offered WBAS matches, we allowed any SASS-legal main match rifle because, as you said, many of our shooters were cowboy shooters who owned .38 caliber rifles. This seems to be the approach at most local clubs. I enjoy WBAS but I was reluctant to buy another expensive rifle for a game that only got to shoot four or five times a year.

 

My club's WBAS match director thought that the big bore rifle requirement was a barrier to growing the sport. His opinion was to leave the 150 power factor but let shooters use any caliber they wanted.

 

My local club eventually decided to replace Wild Bunch with modern Three Gun. There's lots of demand for those matches; they usually limit the match to about 70 shooters and when they open the online registration it fills up in a matter of minutes.

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The game was what it was long before I come along .

I fell in love with it the first time I saw it.

 

We play by the established rules because thats how the game is played.

I think if your local club decides to put on a special (shoot what you brung match)

That is up to that club .

But for SASS to change the rules ?

It would NOT be the same game .

And would Loose shooters NOT Gain shooters .

I will not willingly go to a match that allows the 1911 to be shot in a SASS posse. Start allowing them and I am gone.

Start your own WB club with it's own targets and own range and good luck to you.

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My understanding is that the 150 power factor and the requirement of the .40-plus caliber rifle (the 1911s have to be .45 ACP and the shotgun must be 12 gauge) was something of a reaction to the tendency in cowboy action shooting towards small calibers and light loads. Wild Bunch targets tend to be more challenging (in terms of size and distance) than CAS targets.

 

When my local club offered WBAS matches, we allowed any SASS-legal main match rifle because, as you said, many of our shooters were cowboy shooters who owned .38 caliber rifles. This seems to be the approach at most local clubs. I enjoy WBAS but I was reluctant to buy another expensive rifle for a game that only got to shoot four or five times a year.

 

My club's WBAS match director thought that the big bore rifle requirement was a barrier to growing the sport. His opinion was to leave the 150 power factor but let shooters use any caliber they wanted.

 

My local club eventually decided to replace Wild Bunch with modern Three Gun. There's lots of demand for those matches; they usually limit the match to about 70 shooters and when they open the online registration it fills up in a matter of minutes.

Interesting. I like the idea of keeping the power factor requirement but removing the caliber restriction. It would be relatively easy to load heavier loads for WBAS matches.

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Shooting a 1911 in a Wild Bunch match is a totally different game than shooting a single action handgun in cowboy action, lots going on with a 1911. Safety is the main concern with shooting any gun, but shooting a 1911 requires that everyone knows the operation of this firearm. If you want to shoot a 1911, shoot in Wild Bunch matches only, a 1911 does not belong in a regular cowboy match..............you would be looking for trouble by mixing these weapons.

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The answer to why is pretty simple. The movie had 1911 .45's, 1897 12 gauges, and 1892 .44-40's & .38-40's. There warn't no .38/357's, .32-20's or .25-20's in the movie. :P

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I'm not trying to be argumentative, but since the 38 special cartridge wasn't developed until 1898 it could be easily argued that a weapon of that caliber would have been much more likely to be used in something like the Wild Bunch scenario than in the vast majority of westerns films.

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I will not willingly go to a match that allows the 1911 to be shot in a SASS posse. Start allowing them and I am gone.

Start your own WB club with it's own targets and own range and good luck to you.

If you read what I said before you posted a responce .

I said it would NOT be the same game,

and SASS would LOOSE Shooters !

 

Dont see how that makes ME go start my own game .

Im NOT for using a 1911 in Cowboy .

Edited by Rooster Ron Wayne

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