Is the Uberti 1873 Cattleman Black Powder Revolver legal for plainsman?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Well we are all agreed the thing is not legal for Frontiersman and Plainsman. I do not believe anyone here is advocating that it should be. But in a fantasy westworld where we welcome the Blackhawk and the Big Boy and the Old Army more or less enthusiastically, I am so at a loss why so many are so opposed to this thingie being allowed in the other main match categories? What is the possible harm or complaint? I do not use them and will not altho I own 3 of the thingies. Oh someday I may just for fun at our little local matches and no one around these parts will grouse about it.

 

Usually when PWB chimes in on the other side of an issue from me I will fold my tent and slink away into the outer darkness with my tail between me legs. Not this time. My memory still says it was approved way back in the day and not just for those commie countries far away but this one as well. I wish someone had the ear of the Judge and would tell us his thought(s) on the matter. Ah well, so it goes...

As my compadre, Snakebite, mentioned, I have the meeting notes of the ROC discussion/decision rat-holed in a (temporarily inaccessible) archive.

ASAP once I regain access, this will be settled for certain.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Well we are all agreed the thing is not legal for Frontiersman and Plainsman. I do not believe anyone here is advocating that it should be. But in a fantasy westworld where we welcome the Blackhawk and the Big Boy and the Old Army more or less enthusiastically, I am so at a loss why so many are so opposed to this thingie being allowed in the other main match categories? What is the possible harm or complaint? I do not use them and will not altho I own 3 of the thingies. Oh someday I may just for fun at our little local matches and no one around these parts will grouse about it.

 

Usually when PWB chimes in on the other side of an issue from me I will fold my tent and slink away into the outer darkness with my tail between me legs. Not this time. My memory still says it was approved way back in the day and not just for those commie countries far away but this one as well. I wish someone had the ear of the Judge and would tell us his thought(s) on the matter. Ah well, so it goes...

Interesting argument ya'll bring up and I tend to agree! The Blackhawk, Big Boy and Old Army are just as historically unaccurate as the BP Revolver we're talking about. How about the Alchmista's grip and all the lowered hammers on all the revolvers now? Just my two cents, but I would have no problem if the BP Revolvers were allowed!

[Griff]

As my compadre, Snakebite, mentioned, I have the meeting notes of the ROC discussion/decision rat-holed in a (temporarily inaccessible) archive.

ASAP once I regain access, this will be settled for certain.

I also know it'd been discussed long before there was a ROC. I have always been under the impression that it was NOT legal for both the old BP (which required a C&B revolver and outlawed the ROA unless it'd been refitted to fixed rear sight) as well as Frontiersman from the beginning. I seem to recall the discussion about it being the only legal revolver allowed for private ownership in some countries. It was somewhat of a moot point as no SASS matches were taking place at that time in such countries... as my memory of the discussion fades and wanes...

 

Interestingly, the first actual mention of it an Shooter's Handbook comes in 2007, where it's only mention is, illegal in Frontiersman and Plainsman.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

 

TG SUMMIT minutes from 2005 & 2006 have been located (Thanks to San Quinton)

Verifying with the ROC re the OP.

[Cole Younger Requlator]

For what its worth- as a former member of the ROC-and I have kept my notes (where they are is another question) I remember the vote. And it was canned.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

TG SUMMIT minutes from 2005 & 2006 have been located (Thanks to San Quinton)

Verifying with the ROC re the OP.

1) The model revolver in question is LEGAL in all SASS MAIN MATCH CATEGORIES

EXCEPT FRONTIERSMAN--- by TG VOTE @ 2006 Summit. ..SHB exception codified in 2007 rulebook edits.

 

2) As such, it is

NOT LEGAL FOR THE PLAINSMAN SIDEMATCH :

"THE PLAINSMAN

This event requires two .36 caliber or larger Frontiersman Category style percussion revolvers, shot Duelist style."

I concede the point regarding "Main Match" legality to the honorable gentlemen from the Texas Republic.

⛦⛦⛦⛦⛦

Edited December 30, 2016 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

[Griff]

Thank you for taking the time to look this up. I was about 90% sure of my position, but would have willing accepted a jog to the memory, (read swift kick in the seat), had I been wrong. Colorado Coffinmaker almost had me convinced I was! Regardless, as far as the OP's question, it is and has been illegal for quite some time.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I concede. There was a time it was legal for Main Match. Much as I hate to admit it. Now, the question is, when did the durn thing become .... illegal?? Anybody know that answer??

 

Coffinmaker

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I concede. There was a time it was legal for Main Match. Much as I hate to admit it. Now, the question is, when did the durn thing become .... illegal?? Anybody know that answer??

 

Coffinmaker

These are the excerpts from the 2005/2006 Summit minutes that were referenced in the verification that the Uberti Percussion Cattleman revolver WAS APPROVED as a Main Match pistol.

:

12. Should the Uberti 1873 Percussion Pistol be allowed as a Main match Pistol?

This pistol was approved as a Main Match pistol but not as a legal cap and ball pistol by the Territorial Governors four years ago, is it time now to allow it in the Frontiersman Category?

 

Rowdy Yates offered that this gun offers absolutely no advantage. He also informed the group that this gun is currently allowed in foreign countries that cannot use cartridge firearms.

2005 TG SUMMIT

 

Action Shooter Items

 

1. Should we allow the Uberti 1873 percussion revolver be allowed as a Frontiersman Category revolver?

This was miss-worded last year and is being voted on again. It was voted on in previous years as a legal main match revolver but not as a Frontiersman Category legal revolver.

 

All discussion from the floor was opposed to allowing the use of this gun in the Frontiersman Category. Arizona Tom offered a view on the current use of this firearm. It seems there is little use in existence and therefore is not an issue.

2006 TG SUMMIT

Edited December 30, 2016 by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

I concede. There was a time it was legal for Main Match. Much as I hate to admit it. Now, the question is, when did the durn thing become .... illegal?? Anybody know that answer??

 

 

Coffinmaker

 

 

perhaps you misread the last few posts esp PWB's. It never became illegal for all categories but Frontiersman and has always been legal for all other main match categories. It is and always has been legal. Thanks PWB. Good to know my memory is not faulty, well this time anyhoo...

[Cherokee Sam]

I kinda sorta opened a can of beans with that original question. Just Sayin

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

So?? It's Winter up here I the north country. Cold, the range is covered with snow. We're all just a little bored. An open can of worms can be enormous fun!! Good Job!! Keep up the good work!!

 

OK. I wall buy in. That Ugly sucker is legal as a Main Match gun. Ugly, but legal. Haven't seen one at a match, anywhere, at all. Most of us for whom bustin caps is Due Rigger, prefer actual reproductions of actual Cap Guns. An 1873 frame Cap Gun is a lot like breeding a Great Dane with a Dachshund. Icky Foo!!

[Oddnews SASS# 24779]

"Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict."

Ha ha ha ha ha

[Griff]

I kinda sorta opened a can of beans with that original question. Just Sayin

Naw, I think everyone agreed on the answer to your original question. The follow-on comments opened the can o' beans. And a mighty good thing, it cleared the air, even if a few were driven from the room! T'were pretty smelly, til PWB opened the door and let in some fresh!

 

So?? It's Winter up here I the north country. Cold, the range is covered with snow. We're all just a little bored. An open can of worms can be enormous fun!! Good Job!! Keep up the good work!!

 

OK. I wall buy in. That Ugly sucker is legal as a Main Match gun. Ugly, but legal. Haven't seen one at a match, anywhere, at all. Most of us for whom bustin caps is Due Rigger, prefer actual reproductions of actual Cap Guns. An 1873 frame Cap Gun is a lot like breeding a Great Dane with a Dachshund. Icky Foo!!

All it'll take is for one person to win a match and it'll turn into a beautiful swan. Everybody clammerin' for one! Lone Dog has the US market cornered...

"Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict."

 

Ha ha ha ha ha

 

That is still the case, it requires the hammer to be pulled back, rotating the cylinder bringing a chamber in line with the hammer & barrel, then the trigger pulled to fire. It has no more than 6 chambers, an exposed hammer, etc... If'n you're going for strict authenticity, the Rugers, all 3 basic variations, Original, Vaqueros (old & new) and the ROA, would all be outlawed in competition. A depiction, is simply that; a Picasso is as much a depiction as a Rembrandt. Might (and very much DO), look totally different... and nothing like the original... Take their "depiction" of a pretty girl as a "for instance".

 

There... my work is done, you've got the bunkhouse lawyer's argument to shoot just about anything you want... not that it'll fly, even with me, let alone the "powers-that-be!"

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

"Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict."

 

Ha ha ha ha ha

 

 

Good grief! The laughter has just made me realize some very important things!

 

1. Short strokes are illegal!

2. The 1897 and 1887 shotguns can have their magazines fully loaded on the clock!

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

O.K. , H.K. , that will do. Coffee out the nose and onto the keyboard is not funny. Unless you are not the one snorting.

 

Rex

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

ha ha Griff, there are more of them than my 3 in the US. Maybe as many as a few dozen or several hundred, who knows?

 

I have yet to shoot any of mine but I sure hope to before I ride over the ridge...

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

thing I find interesting in this post is I never knew this particular revolver existed (in the modern world--not getting back into historical accuracy)!

 

Learn something new everyday...

 

cr

[Rye Miles #13621]

thing I find interesting in this post is I never knew this particular revolver existed (in the modern world--not getting back into historical accuracy)!

 

Learn something new everyday...

 

cr

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/blackpowder-revolvers/1873-cattleman-blackpowder.html

 

If it wasn't almost $500.00, I'd buy one!!

[Cheatin Charlie]

http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/hand-guns/blackpowder-revolvers/1873-cattleman-blackpowder.html

 

If it wasn't almost $500.00, I'd buy one!!

Save some money https://www.midwayusa.com/product/131995/uberti-1873-cattleman-black-powder-revolver-44-caliber-55-barrel-steel-frame-blue

[Rye Miles #13621]

Save some money https://www.midwayusa.com/product/131995/uberti-1873-cattleman-black-powder-revolver-44-caliber-55-barrel-steel-frame-blue

With shipping it'll be close to $475.00, I'd rather get an 1851!!!

 

Happy New Year Charlie!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

But .... But .... But ... Rye ........ You'd have to shoot "real" powder again.

[Cheatin Charlie]

With shipping it'll be close to $475.00, I'd rather get an 1851!!!

 

Happy New Year Charlie!

I think we both know someone who could fix you right up.

 

Happy New Year to you too.

 

Browns might win a game next year, Steelers resting most of the team

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

hmmm, I am not aware of a conversion cylinder for this model but seems to me it would be the perfect candidate for one.

 

Yes the price on new ones is high, for that money I would much rather get a pair of 3rd Model Dragoons etc etc

 

But I got all 3 of mine here on The Classifieds and they were real bargains both at that time and still...

[Rye Miles #13621]

But .... But .... But ... Rye ........ You'd have to shoot "real" powder again.

Oh No!!!

I think we both know someone who could fix you right up.

 

Happy New Year to you too.

 

Browns might win a game next year, Steelers resting most of the team

Hey a win is a win!!!

[J-BAR #18287]

hmmm, I am not aware of a conversion cylinder for this model but seems to me it would be the perfect candidate for one.

 

Yes the price on new ones is high, for that money I would much rather get a pair of 3rd Model Dragoons etc etc

 

But I got all 3 of mine here on The Classifieds and they were real bargains both at that time and still...

This revolver was designed so that it could never fire cartridges because it was intended for those places, primarily foreign, that do not allow conventional handgun ownership. As others have said, the eccentric hammer design can be changed but the cost and trouble is prohibitive. Don't hold your breath waiting for a conversion cylinder for this one.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

ok I won't and thanks for that explanation J-Bar. I will just be happy to finally fire them as intended one of these days...