paperpatching 38-55 H&R

[Lunger]

I've been shooting my Gibbs with a chase patch recently, and having a blast. Bought a 45 cal inline muzzleloader the other day so I'll be paperpatching it tomorrow! Anyway, I got to thinking bout my 3855, and wondering why a guy couldn't breech seat a paperpatch bullet, and shoot black out of it? I'd droptube it nearly full of swiss, then place a 60 thou card wad on it to make it about flush......but then thought what would happen when that wad slams into the base of that bullet? What about the airgap? Yes, my gunsmith opened my chamber up to the correct dimensions for .380 bullets, and yes it shoots well. Anyway, I better have some help with the breech seating idea before I learn an expensive lesson on my own. Thanks, Lunger

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Why ???

 

 

Bother ...

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

If this is a target round. You'll want a 'lube-cookie' to keep the fouling kinda soft.

Leave about .100 space in the case neck and finger seat the bullet.

 

OLG

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Why ???

 

 

Bother ...

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

Because, it's WINTER......

OLG

[Clyde Henry 7046]

I've been shooting my Gibbs with a chase patch recently, and having a blast. Bought a 45 cal inline muzzleloader the other day so I'll be paperpatching it tomorrow! Anyway, I got to thinking bout my 3855, and wondering why a guy couldn't breech seat a paperpatch bullet, and shoot black out of it? I'd droptube it nearly full of swiss, then place a 60 thou card wad on it to make it about flush......but then thought what would happen when that wad slams into the base of that bullet? What about the airgap? Yes, my gunsmith opened my chamber up to the correct dimensions for .380 bullets, and yes it shoots well. Anyway, I better have some help with the breech seating idea before I learn an expensive lesson on my own. Thanks, Lunger

The shooters over at the American Single Shot Rifle Assoc. Forum talk about breech seating bullets a lot. ( http://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=reload) You might ask them.

[Lunger]

Thanks guys, lumpys right. Its winter, and I'm wondering how accurate a cheap h&r can be. Lol! I'll look at that website Clyde, thanks!

[Ruff Kut]

I am paper patching my 45-110 and loving it. No grease cookies, no fouling issues, and has tightened up my shot group incredibly. Dropped down to a .444 diameter 550 grain money bullet with double wrap of onion paper and it is a dream.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I am paper patching my 45-110 and loving it. No grease cookies, no fouling issues, and has tightened up my shot group incredibly. Dropped down to a .444 diameter 550 grain money bullet with double wrap of onion paper and it is a dream.

What are you doing for fouling control? Wipe or blow-tube?

What brand BP and granulation are you using?

OLG

[Ruff Kut]

Starline brass, Federal match large pistol primers, 97 grns Goex 1F blackpowder, .06 fiber wad, .06 poly wad, .25 compression, .444 diameter 550 grn bullets ,paper patched with Rooster lube, bullet hand set on top of the wads. I actually pulled the center plug out of the bullet seating die to avoid any further compression, and just a light crimp to hold it all together. Use a blow tube and a lot of hot air.

If I could figure how to put a picture in here I would show the last target with a 5 shot clover group all touching at 100.

[Lunger]

RC, is your paperpatch bullet deep in the rifling like a breech seated bullet? Or jumping? Thanks

[Ruff Kut]

I am loading them just long enough that I have to put some pressure to get it to seat fully. The bullet is just starting to engage the rifling. No free bore.

[Lunger]

Thanks! I was paperpatching a 45 cal inline muzzleloader today with great accuracy, and now about ready to try it in that 3855 h&r. Just debating on whether to seat with a slight jam like you are, or to breechseat.

[John Boy]

Anyway, I better have some help with the breech seating idea before I learn an expensive lesson on my own

Lunger, in the history of shooting a true breech seated PP bullet, you would be the 1st!

* Step One - Find a non groove tapered 38-55 bullet. There are several excellent tapered GG bullets (Doc Hudson designed Ideal 319273) but not having the smaller diameters for PP

Ideal 319273 - 185gr. Accurate Molds cloned this bullet for me from the original

* Wrap the non GG bullet

* Buy a breech seater ($250) but with an H&R there is no way to hing the seater to the action or make a plugged case that won't work the majority of the time to accurately fully breech the bullet accurately because of the paper

*Insert the bullet into the leade so only 1/16" of an inch of the base is not fully engraved in the bore. Key is there are no fins on the base of the bullet

* Charge the case and leave enough bell so the case mouth surrounds the breech seated bullet. This can be an issue because of the paper rap around the bullet base

* Pull the trigger

* Only real advantage is a PP bullet leaves less foul in the bore shooting black powder

Fully believe you will have more issues getting the round to shoot accurately than if you just used a fixed cartridge

Edit: Lunger forgot to add ... to shoot breech seated reloads the leade of the rifle has to be re-throated to accept the tapered bullet

Edited December 24, 2016 by John Boy

[Lunger]

That's exactly the type of info I was looking for John Boy, and I appreciate it. Question though...... my paperpatch bullets for my Gibbs, and now the inline, seat in the bore with little more pressure than the weight of the loading rod. The bullets are very soft, and bump up to the grooves and shoot accurately. Course not quite to the grooves due to the paper. Anyway, I thought the bore sized paperpatch bullets would seat super easy in the breech. If you still see problems with it, I won't attempt it, and just stick with my regular ammo. Just thought a guy might get a little more accuracy out of the gun.....

[John Boy]

Luger - you do what you want to but don't say you want to breech seat a PP bullet for reloads when your not going to do it correctly. Breech seating is specific as explained and just shoving a PP bullet as far as you can without a seater ... is not Breech Seating. And BTW a patched bullet shoved down the bore and tamped harder with the wooden stick is not breech seating. Why?

The Gibbs rifle has no breech!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Starline brass, Federal match large pistol primers, 97 grns Goex 1F blackpowder, .06 fiber wad, .06 poly wad, .25 compression, .444 diameter 550 grn bullets ,paper patched with Rooster lube, bullet hand set on top of the wads. I actually pulled the center plug out of the bullet seating die to avoid any further compression, and just a light crimp to hold it all together. Use a blow tube and a lot of hot air.

 

If I could figure how to put a picture in here I would show the last target with a 5 shot clover group all touching at 100.

 

 

Hope you anneal the HARD Starline brass case mouth.

Let us know how that load holds up at 500 yds.

Get that Goex closer to 5/16" comp and bet the load shoots even better. Goex loves to be mashed down.

Try a paper coffee filter 'wad' at the bottom of the case(covers the primer).

What does the crono show for ES over 10 rnds fired?

OLG

[Red Cent]

http://assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1091212612

[Lunger]

Yes, I know the Gibbs, and my inline muzzleloader doesn't have a breech. I'm shooting paperpatch bullets in each, is all. It gave me the idea to breech seat the 3855 with a paperpatch bullet is all. Just was wondering if it could workin the h&r by slipping a paperpatch bullet in the breech, or even down the muzzle to the breech, and loading the charged case with black and wad behind it. The paperpatch bullet I load in the Gibbs is shooting a touch over moa, and was wondering if I might get that kind of accuracy out of the 3855. Not trying to agitate you at all, just thinking out loud. The paperpatch bullets are working great in my Gibbs with 80 grs of 1.5 swiss, a felt wad, with .060 veggie wad on top, and a paperpatched 550 gr slug gently seated on top, with cci standard cap. The patched bullet measures .4475, and seats with not much more pressure than the weight of my loading rod. It shoots fist sized groups and less at 300 in wind. Just got me thinking about some other stuff it might work well in......

[Lunger]

Red Cent, thanks for posting that. I think I see a way to do this safely with black now!