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Pit Bull Tex

Hunting with a 44-40 ?

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Any one hunt with a 44-40?What in a good hunting hand load or factory load?Shooting a rossi 92.Hog and maybe deer?How hot can you make a 44-40 load?What bullet?

Edited by Pit Bull Tex

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They use to make HV rounds for rifles but dumb people would put them in the old BP Colts - not good. Look in some of the older Lyman manuals in the rifles section and you can find some HV loadings that get right up there with the 44 Mag. Will try and locate mine and send you info.

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In a strong action like the 92,or what I shoot... A Marlin 1894. I have had awesome luck with alliant 2400.

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I would think that until the 1883 Winchester in large calibers was introduced the 73 or 66 in 44-40 killed many deer using BP. Sharps and other large caliber single shots were around. But the average hunter probably had a 73 Winchester. Just speculation on my part.

Ike

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I would think that until the 1883 Winchester in large calibers was introduced the 73 or 66 in 44-40 killed many deer using BP. Sharps and other large caliber single shots were around. But the average hunter probably had a 73 Winchester. Just speculation on my part.

Ike

Was the 66 ever chambered in 44-40? I'm sure you're right about the 73 and being quite prolific for hunting for much of the 1870's to 80's

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Was the 66 ever chambered in 44-40?

No, it was chambered in 44 Henry. Unlike today's replicas, the old '66 had a shorter action than the '73 and could not handle the longer 44-40.

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The largest Black Tail buck I ever shot was a one shot kill with a Winchester model 92 in 44-40 caliber. One in the boiler room was sufficient.

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Found load for 200 gr. Jacketed SP bullets with 2079 fps.For 220 gr. bullets #2 Alloy with Unique at 1335 fps.Now to find the bullets.

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In a 92 I would think you could use any 44 mag data .

Most 44/40 now adays shoot the same bullet .429 or .430

Not .427

 

I have a hard hitting great Mild 44 mag load if you are intrested PM me.

Should work great on 44/40 .

Have a Marry Christmas Pard .

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I am going to slug the barrel after I shoot some win. cowboy loads,if I can think of what you use to do it.

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PM inbound!

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No, it was chambered in 44 Henry. Unlike today's replicas, the old '66 had a shorter action than the '73 and could not handle the longer 44-40.

Not true. The 1866 was made until 1898. The 4th model was it's latest version, some sent to the Mexican Army, were centerfire 44-40. They had an improved frame.

I had the opportunity to examine one.

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Thanks Griff got it.

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Not true. The 1866 was made until 1898. The 4th model was it's latest version, some sent to the Mexican Army, were centerfire 44-40. They had an improved frame.

I had the opportunity to examine one.

The M1866 for sale to South American governments was chambered for .44 Henry Central Fire, not .44-40. The .44 Henry CF was very similar to the .44 Evans long (at least by my measurements).

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I slugged the barrel on the rossi and it slugged .430.I know what size bullets to order now.Thanks for all the help.Pit

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Brian Pierce had a very good and long response to a letter in Handloader about three years ago. He gave loads for 2400 in the .45 Colt and .44-40 that were both around 1500 fps in Uberti 1873 rifles. The article said that 2400 was the best broad use powder for this purpose and gave good results without going to AA#9, H-110 or W296.

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from Paco Kellys site he gives some 1500 fps loads. He also explains the Taylor KD values and why the pistol calibers shot out of a long gun kill better than what the paper balistics would indicate.

 

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/4440.htm

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Unique or Goex is all you will need !

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Really no reason to get velocity obsessed. 1200 -1300 fps out of that rifle will drop anything in the great state of Texas! I reduce my 44 mag. To that and have had really great luck but then again last few years I've been killing deer and hogs with my 45acp 1911 and they appear to be just as dead. Happy hunting! Dusty Boddams

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3F. Goex drop-tubed in to fill the case so as the bullet compresses the powder 1/8 of an inch with Winchester primers ,using a 245 gr. RNFP lead bullet ... should give you around 1,280 Fps. and is safe in a Uberti 73 or 66 ...

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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What a great topic with some of the most positive replies I have seen in a very ling time for this cartridge. 

It is very hard to "replace" the original charge of BP along with the 427098 type lead bullet and maintain original ballistics. Those early original loads catapulted the lead projectile downrange at 1,245fps. The bullets were lubricated well enough to lob 30 shots 110 yards downrange and all hit inside a 4" circle without cleaning the barrel between shots (Doc Pardee 1875 Winchester catalog). It just didn't get much better than that. Even today shooters such as John Kort prove the ole cartridge and it's original ballistics consistently hitting steel javelina at 300 meters (but using a scope).  The purpose was to prove the rifle/cartridge, not the shooter's eye sight! Results from my gel testing days..."75/1 bullets penetrated 27” of clear gel and expanded to .528”..."The handgun loads gave velocities from 941-963 fps at 10 ft., perforated and exited the 32” gel block"...excerpts taken from an article by Ed Harris, bullets cast by John Kort and gel shot test by Bryan Austin. Proof the velocity does not have to be much to penetrate a typical white tail.

Moving on up to modern factory/handload cartridges...modern velocities are about 1,190fps, still well plenty enough to knock down a white tail but accuracy plummets in many cases out to and past 100 yards.  In addition to many
firearm's differences in barrel sizes, tolerances, projectile weights and other sizes piled up on top of a somewhat finicky to load cartridge....the 44-40 has achieved a very unfair but understandable bad reputation.

When a person begins to understand all of these issues, learns to adapt and overcome, a whole new world will open up. The 44-40 is actually a very multifaceted cartridge. From shotshells, round ball "game getters", 180gr XTP coyote loads to 240gr deer loads...from 50 yards to 300 yard options....decisions on a load can be almost endless not to mention the fact that you are enjoying a classic rifle cartridge and firearms that most modern weapons can not compete with. Lets don't forget the revolvers too.

Now we get to the good stuff.....

 

A little food for thought...pay close attention...because my writing skills remind me of a song by Allen Jackson !!
 

Looking at Lyman's reloading manual #49 page 299, (Double check my numbers) Lyman lists several powders and charges for the 44-40. In particular, Lyman lists 2400 powder in use with the Speer 200gr JSHP bullet #4425. Lyman uses a 24" Universal receiver with 1:36" twist for these particular tests. Cases trimmed to 1.295 and an AOL of 1.600. Those measurements (plus some misc measurements) with Starline brass, using QuickLoad...gives a bullet seating depth of .313" as well as the pressures noted.

 

Lyman Manual....vs...QL (Quickload) Data

grains/powder/velocity/cup/QL psi CIP

 

Group I Rifles (weak actions)(Lyman lists ten rifles).....That's nineteen different firearms total chambered for the 44-40 
xxgr/2400/1,183fps/11,900/15,000 (fps=Current Factory VelocitiesNormal Loads

 

Group II Rifles (strong actions)(Lyman lists nine rifles).....That's nineteen different firearms total chambered for the 44-40 
xxgr/2400/1,380fps/14,500/19,000 (fps=Original Historical Velocities+P Loads due to higher than max pressures
xxgr/2400/1,638fps/19,000/25,753 (fps=1903 (1910) Factory "High Velocity" Replication+P+ Loads due to excessive high pressure

 

Lyman also lists Unique and IMR4227 powders for Group II Rifles

Personally I will not shoot anything in my Marlin with CIP estimated pressures over 26,000psi CIP, we all have our limitations right?. My goal was to replicate the 1903, more yet...the 1910 "High Velocity" ballistics....not to try and make the 44-40 into a 44 magnum as so I have been accused. I consider these HV loads as 44-40 "+P+" loads for those that like to use the "+P" status.

 

Reputable writers have been using and publishing the +P type loads that replicate original 1,300fps velocities ( but higher than black powder pressures) in magazines and online articles for years.

 

For all the nay sayers, dudes, weekend range worriers and city slickers.....the loads are right there in the reloading manual!!

 

Not in Lymans #49 but is in #47 is the 240gr lead bullet information and Reloder 7 that produce 1,200fps at "Group I" rifle category pressures. The same info is/was listed on Lee's 44-40 reloading 3-die-set pamphlet.

 

Although the modern 1,300 fps velocities replicate original velocities using both black powder and early smokeless powder, the modern pressures generated are above SAAMI/CIP max pressures. I call modern 1,300fps velocities +P loads because of the higher than standard pressures of the earlier black powder and smokeless powder ballistics. The 1,400fps-1,600fps step in velocities I call +P+ loads.

Again not trying to make the 44-40 into a 44 magnum....simply just trying to get that projectile downrange accurately and maintain enough energy to knock down that white tail :-)


CIP vs SAAMI
 

Edited by Savvy Jack

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Savvy Jack, remove the load data from your post.  It's against Forum Rules to post data, no matter the source... 

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facepalm...see if I missed anything else..Thanks!

Edited by Savvy Jack

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I've had success with a heavy charge of Unique under 200gr XTP. I consider it an ethical hunting cartridge out to 140yds. After that accuracy falls apart and energy drops too low for bullet performance.

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On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 8:46 PM, Griff said:

Savvy Jack, remove the load data from your post.  It's against Forum Rules to post data, no matter the source... 

Not anymore! The rules have been changed (unless recently changed back).  Still best to stick to loads in the Lyman handbooks, and using modern-made guns. 

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26 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Not anymore! The rules have been changed (unless recently changed back).  Still best to stick to loads in the Lyman handbooks, and using modern-made guns. 

Aye, but I posted that back in February, last year!

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 I cast this bullet which weighs around 220 grs. for my 1866 Sporting Rifle in 44-40-

 

 N_O_E__Bullet_Moulds_432_200Gr__RF_zpsoc

 

 It has plenty of lube capacity for loading BP, and I've used it with both BP and smokeless. Plenty accurate for deer to at least 200 yds, IF you're good at range estimation. I load 9.5 grs. of Unique, Power Pistol or Herco and get right around 1300 fps with any of the three, same velocity, and accuracy with a case full of Swiss 3Fg. . A couple of years ago I whacked a buck with this load and he died right away with no complaints.

 

 scrub%20buck_zpsfa2gwedh.jpg

 

  The bullet sailed on through for parts unknown, so I don't think another couple hundred fps would've made a bit of difference.

 

 Cholla

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