Pit Bull Tex Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) Any one hunt with a 44-40?What in a good hunting hand load or factory load?Shooting a rossi 92.Hog and maybe deer?How hot can you make a 44-40 load?What bullet? Edited December 16, 2016 by Pit Bull Tex Quote
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 They use to make HV rounds for rifles but dumb people would put them in the old BP Colts - not good. Look in some of the older Lyman manuals in the rifles section and you can find some HV loadings that get right up there with the 44 Mag. Will try and locate mine and send you info. Quote
Major Art Tillery Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 In a strong action like the 92,or what I shoot... A Marlin 1894. I have had awesome luck with alliant 2400. 1 Quote
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 I would think that until the 1883 Winchester in large calibers was introduced the 73 or 66 in 44-40 killed many deer using BP. Sharps and other large caliber single shots were around. But the average hunter probably had a 73 Winchester. Just speculation on my part. Ike Quote
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 I would think that until the 1883 Winchester in large calibers was introduced the 73 or 66 in 44-40 killed many deer using BP. Sharps and other large caliber single shots were around. But the average hunter probably had a 73 Winchester. Just speculation on my part. Ike Was the 66 ever chambered in 44-40? I'm sure you're right about the 73 and being quite prolific for hunting for much of the 1870's to 80's Quote
Brimstone Bill Willson Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 Was the 66 ever chambered in 44-40? No, it was chambered in 44 Henry. Unlike today's replicas, the old '66 had a shorter action than the '73 and could not handle the longer 44-40. Quote
Barrelhouse Bob, SASS#22663 Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 The largest Black Tail buck I ever shot was a one shot kill with a Winchester model 92 in 44-40 caliber. One in the boiler room was sufficient. Quote
Pit Bull Tex Posted December 16, 2016 Author Posted December 16, 2016 Found load for 200 gr. Jacketed SP bullets with 2079 fps.For 220 gr. bullets #2 Alloy with Unique at 1335 fps.Now to find the bullets. Quote
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 In a 92 I would think you could use any 44 mag data . Most 44/40 now adays shoot the same bullet .429 or .430 Not .427 I have a hard hitting great Mild 44 mag load if you are intrested PM me. Should work great on 44/40 . Have a Marry Christmas Pard . Quote
Pit Bull Tex Posted December 16, 2016 Author Posted December 16, 2016 I am going to slug the barrel after I shoot some win. cowboy loads,if I can think of what you use to do it. Quote
Joe West Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) On 12/16/2016 at 12:46 PM, Brimstone Bill Willson said: No, it was chambered in 44 Henry. Unlike today's replicas, the old '66 had a shorter action than the '73 and could not handle the longer 44-40. The 1866 was made until 1898. The 4th model was it's latest version, some sent to the Mexican Army, were centerfire 44. I had the opportunity to examine one. Edited March 28, 2020 by Joe West 2 1 Quote
Trailrider #896 Posted December 16, 2016 Posted December 16, 2016 Not true. The 1866 was made until 1898. The 4th model was it's latest version, some sent to the Mexican Army, were centerfire 44-40. They had an improved frame. I had the opportunity to examine one. The M1866 for sale to South American governments was chambered for .44 Henry Central Fire, not .44-40. The .44 Henry CF was very similar to the .44 Evans long (at least by my measurements). Quote
Pit Bull Tex Posted December 17, 2016 Author Posted December 17, 2016 I slugged the barrel on the rossi and it slugged .430.I know what size bullets to order now.Thanks for all the help.Pit Quote
Tom Bullweed Posted December 17, 2016 Posted December 17, 2016 Brian Pierce had a very good and long response to a letter in Handloader about three years ago. He gave loads for 2400 in the .45 Colt and .44-40 that were both around 1500 fps in Uberti 1873 rifles. The article said that 2400 was the best broad use powder for this purpose and gave good results without going to AA#9, H-110 or W296. Quote
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted December 17, 2016 Posted December 17, 2016 from Paco Kellys site he gives some 1500 fps loads. He also explains the Taylor KD values and why the pistol calibers shot out of a long gun kill better than what the paper balistics would indicate. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/4440.htm Quote
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted December 17, 2016 Posted December 17, 2016 Unique or Goex is all you will need ! 1 Quote
Dusty Boddems Posted December 18, 2016 Posted December 18, 2016 Really no reason to get velocity obsessed. 1200 -1300 fps out of that rifle will drop anything in the great state of Texas! I reduce my 44 mag. To that and have had really great luck but then again last few years I've been killing deer and hogs with my 45acp 1911 and they appear to be just as dead. Happy hunting! Dusty Boddams Quote
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted December 18, 2016 Posted December 18, 2016 3F. Goex drop-tubed in to fill the case so as the bullet compresses the powder 1/8 of an inch with Winchester primers ,using a 245 gr. RNFP lead bullet ... should give you around 1,280 Fps. and is safe in a Uberti 73 or 66 ... Jabez Cowboy Quote
Savvy Jack Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) What a great topic with some of the most positive replies I have seen in a very ling time for this cartridge. It is very hard to "replace" the original charge of BP along with the 427098 type lead bullet and maintain original ballistics. Those early original loads catapulted the lead projectile downrange at 1,245fps. The bullets were lubricated well enough to lob 30 shots 110 yards downrange and all hit inside a 4" circle without cleaning the barrel between shots (Doc Pardee 1875 Winchester catalog). It just didn't get much better than that. Even today shooters such as John Kort prove the ole cartridge and it's original ballistics consistently hitting steel javelina at 300 meters (but using a scope). The purpose was to prove the rifle/cartridge, not the shooter's eye sight! Results from my gel testing days..."75/1 bullets penetrated 27” of clear gel and expanded to .528”..."The handgun loads gave velocities from 941-963 fps at 10 ft., perforated and exited the 32” gel block"...excerpts taken from an article by Ed Harris, bullets cast by John Kort and gel shot test by Bryan Austin. Proof the velocity does not have to be much to penetrate a typical white tail.Moving on up to modern factory/handload cartridges...modern velocities are about 1,190fps, still well plenty enough to knock down a white tail but accuracy plummets in many cases out to and past 100 yards. In addition to many firearm's differences in barrel sizes, tolerances, projectile weights and other sizes piled up on top of a somewhat finicky to load cartridge....the 44-40 has achieved a very unfair but understandable bad reputation. When a person begins to understand all of these issues, learns to adapt and overcome, a whole new world will open up. The 44-40 is actually a very multifaceted cartridge. From shotshells, round ball "game getters", 180gr XTP coyote loads to 240gr deer loads...from 50 yards to 300 yard options....decisions on a load can be almost endless not to mention the fact that you are enjoying a classic rifle cartridge and firearms that most modern weapons can not compete with. Lets don't forget the revolvers too. Now we get to the good stuff..... A little food for thought...pay close attention...because my writing skills remind me of a song by Allen Jackson !! Looking at Lyman's reloading manual #49 page 299, (Double check my numbers) Lyman lists several powders and charges for the 44-40. In particular, Lyman lists 2400 powder in use with the Speer 200gr JSHP bullet #4425. Lyman uses a 24" Universal receiver with 1:36" twist for these particular tests. Cases trimmed to 1.295 and an AOL of 1.600. Those measurements (plus some misc measurements) with Starline brass, using QuickLoad...gives a bullet seating depth of .313" as well as the pressures noted. Lyman Manual....vs...QL (Quickload) Data grains/powder/velocity/cup/QL psi CIP Group I Rifles (weak actions)(Lyman lists ten rifles).....That's nineteen different firearms total chambered for the 44-40 xxgr/2400/1,183fps/11,900/15,000 (fps=Current Factory Velocities) Normal Loads Group II Rifles (strong actions)(Lyman lists nine rifles).....That's nineteen different firearms total chambered for the 44-40 xxgr/2400/1,380fps/14,500/19,000 (fps=Original Historical Velocities) +P Loads due to higher than max pressures xxgr/2400/1,638fps/19,000/25,753 (fps=1903 (1910) Factory "High Velocity" Replication) +P+ Loads due to excessive high pressure Lyman also lists Unique and IMR4227 powders for Group II Rifles Personally I will not shoot anything in my Marlin with CIP estimated pressures over 26,000psi CIP, we all have our limitations right?. My goal was to replicate the 1903, more yet...the 1910 "High Velocity" ballistics....not to try and make the 44-40 into a 44 magnum as so I have been accused. I consider these HV loads as 44-40 "+P+" loads for those that like to use the "+P" status. Reputable writers have been using and publishing the +P type loads that replicate original 1,300fps velocities ( but higher than black powder pressures) in magazines and online articles for years. For all the nay sayers, dudes, weekend range worriers and city slickers.....the loads are right there in the reloading manual!! Not in Lymans #49 but is in #47 is the 240gr lead bullet information and Reloder 7 that produce 1,200fps at "Group I" rifle category pressures. The same info is/was listed on Lee's 44-40 reloading 3-die-set pamphlet. Although the modern 1,300 fps velocities replicate original velocities using both black powder and early smokeless powder, the modern pressures generated are above SAAMI/CIP max pressures. I call modern 1,300fps velocities +P loads because of the higher than standard pressures of the earlier black powder and smokeless powder ballistics. The 1,400fps-1,600fps step in velocities I call +P+ loads.Again not trying to make the 44-40 into a 44 magnum....simply just trying to get that projectile downrange accurately and maintain enough energy to knock down that white tail :-) CIP vs SAAMI Edited February 6, 2018 by Savvy Jack 1 Quote
Griff Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 Savvy Jack, remove the load data from your post. It's against Forum Rules to post data, no matter the source... Quote
Savvy Jack Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 (edited) facepalm...see if I missed anything else..Thanks! Edited February 6, 2018 by Savvy Jack Quote
War Grizzly Posted February 6, 2018 Posted February 6, 2018 I've had success with a heavy charge of Unique under 200gr XTP. I consider it an ethical hunting cartridge out to 140yds. After that accuracy falls apart and energy drops too low for bullet performance. 2 Quote
A Boy Named Sue Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 Anyone hunt hogs with 44-40 rifle or pistol? Quote
Trailrider #896 Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 On 2/5/2018 at 8:46 PM, Griff said: Savvy Jack, remove the load data from your post. It's against Forum Rules to post data, no matter the source... Not anymore! The rules have been changed (unless recently changed back). Still best to stick to loads in the Lyman handbooks, and using modern-made guns. Quote
Griff Posted January 5, 2019 Posted January 5, 2019 26 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said: Not anymore! The rules have been changed (unless recently changed back). Still best to stick to loads in the Lyman handbooks, and using modern-made guns. Aye, but I posted that back in February, last year! Quote
Cholla Hill Tirador Posted January 6, 2019 Posted January 6, 2019 I cast this bullet which weighs around 220 grs. for my 1866 Sporting Rifle in 44-40- It has plenty of lube capacity for loading BP, and I've used it with both BP and smokeless. Plenty accurate for deer to at least 200 yds, IF you're good at range estimation. I load 9.5 grs. of Unique, Power Pistol or Herco and get right around 1300 fps with any of the three, same velocity, and accuracy with a case full of Swiss 3Fg. . A couple of years ago I whacked a buck with this load and he died right away with no complaints. The bullet sailed on through for parts unknown, so I don't think another couple hundred fps would've made a bit of difference. Cholla 1 Quote
Buckshot Sheridan Posted January 6, 2019 Posted January 6, 2019 I would venture to say a case full of FFFg under a 200gr RNFP would get the job done just fine. 1 Quote
Savvy Jack Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 Velocity equals less trajectory and energy retention at longer distances. Do you want 12" trajectory or 3 feet at a certain yardage? Do you want 700fps at 50 yards or 700fps 500 yards? Quote
Cat Brules Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 If you’re shooting a Uberti or any Win73 clone...... .....a steady diet of a factory or HV reloads of .357Magnum or HV (high-velocity) .44-40 or anything else, will loosen up and damage the rifle. Longer term, I see these rifles as being suitable for “standard” .38Special and lower velocity reloaded ammo for competition purposes only. I won’t fire hi-velocity ammo in mine at all, regardless of the caliber stamped on the barrel. All that tells you, really, is the chamber size and “recommended” ammunition. It will likely fire that .357 factory-velocity ammo “safely,” all day long, but i believe the rifle will,’ longer term, be a sloppy mess of stretched metal parts......functional maybe, but a “rattletrap,” ready to fail any time. Just be cautious. I’m not going to discuss this....this is a warning, so I have no desire to research this to “prove” it or disprove it. In fact, I would be very surprised if you find anything that does “prove” my contention. Just give it some thought. Cat Brules Quote
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 I did a quick search and found an auction selling a 1866 manufactured in 1886 in 44wcf (44-40) like Joe said they were manufactured until the last 1890s. Rafe 1 Quote
Cowboy Junky Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 It'll do fine if you do your part. Good luck. Quote
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 28, 2020 Posted March 28, 2020 Zombies certainly do walk the earth! Quote
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