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Smokestack SASS#87384

New game at The Cowboys.

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Let's play a game. Here is a little something we are going to offer at The Cowboys for 2017.

 

There will be 2 new categories available called Renegade and Lady Renegade. These categories will be available starting in February to the top 10 overall men and top 10 overall ladies from the previous month if they choose to participate. The category rules are as follows:

 

Must have placed in top 10 last month.

Any SASS legal guns (.22 and .410 for buckaroos only) shot any style on any stage.

Placement in these categories will earn you points. 10 points for first, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. points will be posted on Facebook and on a leader board at the range.

Points may only be earned at monthly matches.

 

After the next December match there will be awards for the top 5 in each category and silver buckles for the winners.

All awards will be sponsored so this will be a $0 cost to the club. If you are interested in helping to sponsor these awards, please contact Smokestack. Looking forward to 2017. See ya on the range.

 

Thank you Slick McClade for the concept idea.

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I think if it was Slick McClade's idea he ought fund it :)

 

Kajun

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Smokestack,

 

I'm confused. A top 10 finish warrants a shooter to be in the Renegade category the following month. This part I understand.

 

But, when you state the top 5 in each category gets an award, the only category will be the Mens/Ladies Renegade category.....correct?

 

Are other yearly category winners be awarded even though they may not have qualified for the Renegade Category?

 

 

..........Widder

Edited by Widowmaker Hill SASS #59054

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Smokestack,

 

I'm confused. A top 10 finish warrants a shooter to be in the Renegade category the following month. This part I understand.

 

But, when you state the top 5 in each category gets an award, the only category will be the Mens/Ladies Renegade category.....correct?

 

Are other yearly category winners be awarded even though they may not have qualified for the Renegade Category?

 

 

..........Widder

Yes we will award to 5th place in these two categories only. Based on their points totals from the year.

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The idea for a sepcial category in which the top shooters can compete against each other is done by a lot of clubs, nothing new there. To have special awards for the overall winners in the category sounds like the start of "honoring the elete and ignoring the peons".

Just my thoughts,

 

Blackfoot

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So if the hands down best shooter in the club misses 3 or 4 monthly shoots he or she is out of the contest? It's your club, so do what you want.

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The idea for a sepcial category in which the top shooters can compete against each other is done by a lot of clubs, nothing new there. To have special awards for the overall winners in the category sounds like the start of "honoring the elete and ignoring the peons".

Just my thoughts,

 

Blackfoot

That's pretty funny!!!!

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What SS is doing, is giving us normal(AKA 'mortal' earthlings :lol: )shooters a real chance for awards when shooting with 'Borg' class shooters.

Great Idea Mike! ;)

I do not think the awards should go any 'deeper' than the other categories.

Respectfully,

OLG

Edited by The Original Lumpy Gritz

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For a change I agree with the Gritz.

 

By having a category for the Borgs to compete against each other, it allows others in the categories they used to shoot in to move up in the standings.

 

At the local lever anything that generates interest and some friendly competition is a good thing in my book.

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I am also gauging interest on giving points and tracking all other categories throughout the year as well this makes the impact even better as this draws the fastest shooters into a category where they will face more competition and allows others to finish higher and likely win their annual category award. Just Thought.

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I like the idea, as I like any outside the box thinking. I don't, however, think it should be limited to the top ten from the last match. I say that because if someone misses a match, well now they're down two matches in the standings because their score won't count until they get back in the top 10. Perhaps it could be it's own category for willing participants and then use the point scoring system like you referred to?

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I like the idea, as I like any outside the box thinking. I don't, however, think it should be limited to the top ten from the last match. I say that because if someone misses a match, well now they're down two matches in the standings because their score won't count until they get back in the top 10. Perhaps it could be it's own category for willing participants and then use the point scoring system like you referred to?

I agree and with the addition of the other categories to the annual awards idea, I am leaning towards doing away with the qualification idea and allowing anyone to shoot the open/Renegade category who wants to. The silver buckle for that category will hopefully draw some of the fastest shooters, making more room at the top of the other categories.

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Mike-What if you have a 'Borg-Class' shooter that doesn't want to join this new category?

OLG

Can't make them do it but I think most will chase after the buckle.

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Can't make them do it but I think most will chase after the buckle.

That will be very nice 'bait'. ^_^

I really do think this is a great idea :excl: As it gives us old-farts, that shoot large caliber-warthog loads more of a chance for the 'Golden Cadillac'. :lol:

Hopefully, other clubs will do the same.

OLG

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I agree and with the addition of the other categories to the annual awards idea, I am leaning towards doing away with the qualification idea and allowing anyone to shoot the open/Renegade category who wants to. The silver buckle for that category will hopefully draw some of the fastest shooters, making more room at the top of the other categories.

I think that might defeat the purpose of the whole idea SS. Slicks original concept was you had to ACHIEVE, to get into the top 5 in his case. If you missed a match, well that's your problem you'll be out of the posse for a while. But then again you don't have to miss a match not to finish in the top 5 ( using Slicks comp) . You might shoot badly and be out anyway. If you widen it up to what you're thinking it becomes just another category/ posse and the incentive to ACHIEVE I think will lost.

 

For other categories here's something I used back in Aussie before, allocate points to each shooter depending on where they finish in each category. I limited the categories, to a minimum of 4 if they want to participate. So for example if you have 6 wranglers then the winner gets 6 points then downward as per your Renegade posse. It will vary week to week so next week you might only have 4 wranglers, winner only gets 4 points etc. End of the year highest points are winners. If you change categories you cannot carry previous category points across!

 

One last idea, not every one can shoot to win, many will go just to try and shoot a clean match. Give each clean match shooter a token, like wooden coin or something, then end of the year they place them all in hat and draw for the Sharpshooter of the year buckle.

 

Just my thinkingLol.

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I like the qualification. It's goes against the "every kid makes the soccer team" mentality that seems to have crept in everywhere.

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In the last week there have been two made up categories, this one and the steam punk one, that seem dead set on excluding others from participation.....cut it out!

'Toon, do you need a hug?

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I like the qualification. It's goes against the "every kid makes the soccer team" mentality that seems to have crept in everywhere.

 

Exactly.

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The idea for a sepcial category in which the top shooters can compete against each other is done by a lot of clubs, nothing new there. To have special awards for the overall winners in the category sounds like the start of "honoring the elete and ignoring the peons".

Just my thoughts,

 

Blackfoot

You are correct in that this idea of putting the top shooters into a single category is nothing new.. Chorro Valley Regulators had the Magnificent 7... the top seven shooters at every match shot in the Magnificent 7 category the next month... It had one very nice advantage... it opened up the other categories for someone else to win, and..... it put the top shooters into direct competition with each other. It was a must do situation, so the shooter could not hide. I really use to like it... it gave me a goal trying to get into the top seven shooting BP. They stopped the practice a while back.. don't know why.. I like it. As for honoring the elite and ignoring the peons... that is just not correct... the elites as you call them, are the winners and they have always been recognized and always should be recognized. Of course there are those "T" ball types who think that everyone should get an award regardless of whether there was anyone else to compete against. A category like the one proposed puts the best against the best, and clears the floor for others to have a chance for their 15 sec of fame in their own category.

Edited by Snakebite
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I'm confused.

Adding more divisions that remove the best from each category to compete against each other...

AND allows another person (who cannot do so with the better shooter in place) to "win" the original category is the very definition of modern T Ball mentality.

 

I would rather place 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, etc.) from this day forward than to ever "win" because my competition was removed.

 

The top shooters already have a category in which they compete against each other; it's called overall.

 

Removing talent from a given category, so a different shooter "may" win is insulting and demeaning to those remaining shooters.

 

And to anyone that winning is important; they wouldn't want to win that way.

 

Placing in a category of champions carries infinitely more value than a win in a category devoid of talent.

Especially if the talent that I should have been competing against has been artificially moved to another category for no other purpose than diluting the talent level in the category left behind.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022

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I'm confused.

Adding more divisions that remove the best from each category to compete against each other...

AND allows another person (who cannot do so with the better shooter in place) to "win" the original category is the very definition of modern T Ball mentality.

 

I would rather place 2nd (or 3rd, 4th, etc.) from this day forward than to ever "win" because my competition was removed.

 

The top shooters already have a category in which they compete against each other; it's called overall.

 

Removing talent from a given category, so a different shooter "may" win is insulting and demeaning to those remaining shooters.

 

And to anyone that winning is important; they wouldn't want to win that way.

 

Placing in a category of champions carries infinitely more value than a win in a category devoid of talent.

Especially if the talent that I should have been competing against has been artificially moved to another category for no other purpose than diluting the talent level in the category left behind.

Moving into the other category is optional. Nobody is being removed to anywhere. If there were a gunfighter who you stood near zero chance of beating in your category who decided to move to B western, would you feel insulted or somehow robbed when you moved up a place?

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Moving into the other category is optional. Nobody is being removed to anywhere. If there were a gunfighter who you stood near zero chance of beating in your category who decided to move to B western, would you feel insulted or somehow robbed when you moved up a place?

People change categories all the time. Sometimes to increase their competition; sometimes to run away from competition.

We already have too many categories that allow the dividing and diluting the level of talent in any singular category.

Creating yet another division specifically designed to segregate and isolate the most talented is not a move in the right direction.

Anything that creates lesser competition is, in my opinion, to be avoided.

 

And, in direct answer to your question.

Yes. If I am not the best gunfighter at the shoot; and my "victory" or improvement in placement within gunfighter is solely because the better shooter didnt compete with me... Than a win is not really any accomplishment.

 

Winning only means something when compared to the challenge.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022

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I'm with Creeker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know everyone was anxiously awaiting my opinion.

Edited by Dirty Dan Dawkins

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I like Smokestack's idea. ACSA and Cowtown have Shootist categories which takes the pressure off the same shooters winning their categories every year or switching to another category which they will often win. You always know how you stack up against all your competition by your overall scores. Sounds like a fun challenge Smokestack. Great idea. It is all fun.

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I like it,,,, and agree with Grizz and Gritz,,,,the sky is falling,,,, hehehe

 

a win is a win is a win...

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Hello Smokestack,

 

Sounds like a fun idea. The club at Chabot (small far targets and tough scenarios) did something similar only less complicated. I won a few times. In my case it was an endurance or attendance award, not a skill award. For the men, it was more based on skill as there were more of them with good skills

 

Here is how they did it. At each match, the top male and top female got 10 points each. Second got 9; third 8, and so forth.

 

At the end of the year, the male and female with the most points won a prize, a fake bronze statue. The years I won, we attended every match.

 

I'm sure it would fall out differently at The Cowboys due to the nice weather and greater number of skilled shooters.

 

Have fun,

 

Allie

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IMHO, as a monthly participant at The Cowboys, I like what Smokestack is trying to do. I'm sure that there will be some tuning that needs to be done as he developed this idea. His vision for turning the potluck into an annual awards ceremony is a great idea and awarding the best and loyal participants of the club is a great idea also. I'm in. Count me in as a sponsor also, Mike.

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I came into this world naked and without any trophies. I shoot for fresh air and fellowship knowing I can't beat some of the cowboys that work extra hard on their speed and accuracy and I don’t. But I still try and have fun. I know all about keeping score, trying to win, working hard and all that jazz, I coached high school football in Texas for many years.

 

I too don't believe in giving everyone a prize just to equalize things. My only concern is that we spend way too much time trying to figure out how to game the system and win another award, than just letting nature take its course and enjoy the freedoms we have to get together and shoot. As a professional mathematician, life is a natural bell curve and no matter what your population sample, there will always be a top 3%.

 

I'm just say'n

 

Merry Christmas!!

Tecate

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Always thought it was unfair to take rankings over a years time. Too many factors that effect attendance and generally the person with the highest attendance has an advantage with points over time.

Without creating another category, assign your points to the top shooters male/female for each shoot. If they shoot in at least 5 or 6 shoots over the year then average their individual scores. Top average score wins the prize. If there is a tie.... The perhaps a super shoot off between them.

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