can you shoot +P loads out of a 1866 in 38?

[Trigger Mike]

can you safely shoot +P loads or other stout 38 loads in a 1866 rifle?

[Henry T Harrison]

Your best bet is to ask the manufacturer

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

The 1866 is proofed and designed to digest 45 Colt to SAMMI specs and 44-40 to SAMMI specs. As long as you don't exceed those pressure levels, it should be no problem. Although I can't think of a good reason to shoot higher pressure ammunition thru a 38 1866. Because you can, doesn't necessarily mean you should.

 

Coffinmaker

[Trigger Mike]

i was thinking that it might be a good home defense rifle for one of my daughters, and give them a 38 revolver and a 38 lever action that i have on hand so thought cowboy loads might not be strong enough but a good defense load would if the gun could handle it

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

Just buy .38 special defense loads for them then +p won't be on any issue. I can assure you that you don't need +p for home defense. Don't use hand loads, factory loads for self defense is the way to go.

 

Blackfoot

[Pat Riot]

What Blackfoot said... +1

 

Just make sure they feed okay.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Your best bet is to ask the manufacturer

+1

 

i was thinking that it might be a good home defense rifle for one of my daughters, and give them a 38 revolver and a 38 lever action that i have on hand so thought cowboy loads might not be strong enough but a good defense load would if the gun could handle it

So would a 10-22. A lot of critters, and men have been stopped with 22 and 22 mag, I know not ideal, but something most can shoot pretty intuitively.

Or consider a 9mm or 45 carbine.

 

38 cowboy loads, OUT OF A RIFLE, will hit harder than a .380 out of a pistol, for comparison. Keep in mind, you're going to gain about 200 FPS +/- with 38 special out of a rifle over a handgun. Don't know your cowboy loads, but a 38 158 grain at 750+/- fps creates about 200 ft/lb muzzle energy (Magtech Ammo chart). In a 20" rifle, you will gain around 200 fps more velocity and 75 ft/lbs or so more in muzzle energy. 125 grain shows similar velocities with less energy, really depends on the loads.

 

As to +P loads, its not the barrel or the chamber that makes these guns inherently weak, it is the toggle link action. The brass frame must come into play since the 73 is toggle link and comes in 357. Also, the lack of a lever safety sets you up for a potential out of battery discharge in a 66, something you do not want with any pressure load.

All of the rounds these rifles are chambered for are in the 14,000 psi range (except for the 1873 in 357).

+P is from what I read around 18500 PSI max pressure. 357 mag is 35,000 PSI max pressure.

 

So like Henry T said, call the manufacturer.

In my honest opinion a 66 is a reliable fine weapon in the hands of those accustomed to them with the range time SASS shooters endure, but for someone not intimately familiar with one, it is not the best option for a home defense weapon.

[Charlie Whiskers]

The best home self defense gun is a shotgun. Little aiming necessary in a stressful situation. Plus if she missed with the handgun or rifle, where would that round or rounds go? It could turn into a problem if she lives in an apartment or well developed neighborhood. I'd get her a 870 with the extended shot shell tube.

[Utah Bob #35998]

AI am not in favor of long guns for home defense. The encounter my be in low light with many obstacles or up close and personal in which case you are most probably going to be at a disadvantage.

Pistols are my defensive guns for close in situations. For those who are not trained or experienced my recommendation ids an 18" pump in 12ga with a pistol grip and no buttstock.

[Trigger Mike]

shotgun is better. I was trying to justify keeping it as someone on the classifieds is looking for one and debating keeping it for the girls or parting with it.

[Sedalia Dave]

The best home self defense gun is a shotgun. Little aiming necessary in a stressful situation. Plus if she missed with the handgun or rifle, where would that round or rounds go? It could turn into a problem if she lives in an apartment or well developed neighborhood. I'd get her a 870 with the extended shot shell tube.

At the ranges you will find in a house or apartment Shotguns still MUST BE AIMED. If you do not believe this, measure your largest room and them pattern your gun at this distance.

 

In my case it is 20 ft at most unless I am shooting down the hallway. However most rooms are 10 to 12 feet at most. At 4 yards the pattern is only 3 to 4 inches in diameter, at 5 yards it is 3.5 to 4.5 inches. Depending on the ammo, length of barrel and choke you will see something different.

 

You will miss your target with a shotgun if you don't aim. The advantage of the shotgun is that aiming is much simpler; cheek on stock bead on target, pull trigger. With rifles people tend to take the time to line up the sights rather than getting a good cheek weld and just using the front sight.

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

Normally while I do not disagree with Utah Bob, if only for his good looks alone, I never liked pistol grip shotguns. You still need to aim to a certain degree. Patterning an open bore shotgun surprised me. Shooting from the hip with said weapons surprised how much wasted shot I lost. I find placing a pistol grip shotgun in the line of ones eye with no support from recoil will slap the slight of build if they're not careful, at the least surprise the unsuspecting. It is the kind of set up that may make some people flinch. Also, I find my recovery from recoil and the subsequent cycling of the shotgun was much quicker with a positive mount to my shoulder....but that's me. I appreciate the CQB mindset, but the last pistol grip shotgun I had was promptly replaced for said reasons.

 

I am also a proponent of a good #4 or #5 shot hunting load for home defense over buckshot.

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

At inside-the-same-room distances , any size shot will work. It will still be in a pretty tight mass. Talking normal house room sizes , 10-15 feet.

Rex

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

At inside-the-same-room distances , any size shot will work. It will still be in a pretty tight mass. Talking normal house room sizes , 10-15 feet.

Rex

Exactly!

[Trigger Mike]

i was taught in a week long shotgun skills course as an officer to avoid the pistol grip shotgun, but i get Utah's point about the rifle. i am probably wishful thinking my daughters will want it anyway. the oldest is 12 and already i can't get her shooting like i used to.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

The best choice is whatever the person is most familiar with.

And a great choice is the Ruger lcr in 9mm.

No slides, no safties, and reloads a moon clip in seconds.

And a 200 lumen flashlight too.

It helps to see what you are shooting.

Don't want to accidentally blow a hole in Uncle George....

Best

CR

[Shawnee McGrutt]

Uncle George has been hunging around long enough, might give him a hint to move along.

[Charlie Whiskers]

Sedalia Dave, on 02 Dec 2016 - 3:20 PM, said:

At the ranges you will find in a house or apartment Shotguns still MUST BE AIMED. If you do not believe this, measure your largest room and them pattern your gun at this distance.

 

In my case it is 20 ft at most unless I am shooting down the hallway. However most rooms are 10 to 12 feet at most. At 4 yards the pattern is only 3 to 4 inches in diameter, at 5 yards it is 3.5 to 4.5 inches. Depending on the ammo, length of barrel and choke you will see something different.

 

You will miss your target with a shotgun if you don't aim. The advantage of the shotgun is that aiming is much simpler; cheek on stock bead on target, pull trigger. With rifles people tend to take the time to line up the sights rather than getting a good cheek weld and just using the front sight.

 

 

I DID NOT say she wouldn't have to aim. What I said was little aiming was necessary. That's comparing it to a rifle or handgun with ONE projectile. I'm well aware you still have to aim, but the chances of hitting what you want are a lot better with a shotgun loaded with 4's or 6's than a rifle or pistol in a stressful situation.

[Shootin' Shu]

I ain't as bright as most of you but a 12yo female shooting a 66 or shotgun or anything for that matter particularly inside sounds like bad business to me.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I ain't as bright as most of you but a 12yo female shooting a 66 or shotgun or anything for that matter particularly inside sounds like bad business to me.

Beats getting killed.

[Trigger Mike]

i wasn't thinking while she is 12, i was thinking for a wedding present later in life. they have to get through me to get to her while she is home.

[Shootin' Shu]

Beats getting killed.

Wonder how a 12yo would handle shooting her sister or a friend.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Wonder how a 12yo would handle shooting her sister or a friend.

Hard to say. Depends on the individual.

So are you against teaching a 12 year old to use a firearm?

[Shootin' Shu]

Hard to say. Depends on the individual.

So are you against teaching a 12 year old to use a firearm?

Why would you think that? That was never part of the conversation. I'm against a 12yo shooting intruders which we now know was not the OP's intention. As far as your it depends on the 12yo individual I call BS.

[guitar_slinger]

At the ranges you will find in a house or apartment Shotguns still MUST BE AIMED. If you do not believe this, measure your largest room and them pattern your gun at this distance.

 

In my case it is 20 ft at most unless I am shooting down the hallway. However most rooms are 10 to 12 feet at most. At 4 yards the pattern is only 3 to 4 inches in diameter, at 5 yards it is 3.5 to 4.5 inches. Depending on the ammo, length of barrel and choke you will see something different.

 

You will miss your target with a shotgun if you don't aim. The advantage of the shotgun is that aiming is much simpler; cheek on stock bead on target, pull trigger. With rifles people tend to take the time to line up the sights rather than getting a good cheek weld and just using the front sight.

Yes, but 3.5" is still a heck of a lot bigger than .357".

 

Other advantages of a shotgun, especially using shot, is less concern about killing the neighbor's kid a block away if you miss your target.

 

For reasons already stated, my home defense gun is a 9mm with the 18.5" barreled 12ga pump by my side. Paranoid? nope, prepared.

[Michigan Slim]

I like my Derringer with the 4" .410 barrel myself. Great defense loads out there and I can carry a shotgun in my pocket!

[Trigger Mike]

hey Michigan Slim, I did not know there is a derringer in 410 with a 4 inch barrel. who makes that? does it handle recoil better than the normal size derringer?